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Thread: Your 2012/2013 Toronto Raptors

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star e2thed's Avatar
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    Landry Fields is Doug Christie incarnate.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    In the playoffs, played 23 mpg (7th .. and Lin was out) .. in the regular season, played 29 mpg (5th .. with a barage of injuries .. so more mpg than if the team was healthy throughout).

    Aggregate minutes extremely misleading as an indicator of anything given all the injuries ..
    Knicks played their best ball with Fields but I think you have your mind made up so I'll agree to disagree.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I guess there's some disappointment in the sense that Colangelo hinted that this summer's "makeover" would be very significant. But the club's biggest hole (SF) has yet to be addressed.

    But in terms of the long-term plan, no complaints (other than potentially losing a lotto pick next summer).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    I'm really torn about the raptors right now

    on the plus side I do think that they are better and younger than last year, and don't have any stupid contracts on the books. I also believe that JV is going to be a legit player and garner some all-star considerations down the road.

    on the negative side, we don't have a player that can take us to the conference finals. I couldn't watch any of the playoffs (bad internet in Africa) except for the finals (it took me 3 weeks to download the games) and the thing that struck me the most was how DIFFERENT the playoffs are from the regular season. The playoffs are just a WHOLE different level and you have to play harder, and be more mentally tough than your opponent. I don't think we have any conference finals players.

    Yes making the playoffs would be welcome, and winning a round in the playoffs would make me very happy, but for me the goal has to be to get to the conference finals and I feel we are sooo close (just need that 1 superstar (all star?) player) and yet soooo far away (just need that one super star player).

    JV is going to take at least two full seasons to become a player that makes a difference (maybe even more?), and i don't think its fair to expect anything from Ross this season, and i also don't think you can expect him to become anything other than a serviceable rotation player.

    BC has done a decent job the last two seasons, but how are we going to get to that next level? I'm worried that we won't.

    I hope the new cba does a better job of leveling the playing field, but I think that their is a real possibility that we get stuck on the 10th-6th place standings treadmill, where you are contending for a playoff spot but are not a serious threat to go deep in the playoffs.

    I mean, we've been in the league for almost two decades now... when is it our turn?
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I guess there's some disappointment in the sense that Colangelo hinted that this summer's "makeover" would be very significant. But the club's biggest hole (SF) has yet to be addressed.

    But in terms of the long-term plan, no complaints (other than potentially losing a lotto pick next summer).
    Nice post.

    I no longer take BC at face value. The last straw was this summer. Clearly he wants to do some big things but with 30 other teams what you want and can do are two totally different things the majority of the time it seems.

    The raps starting the year as constructed is not a total waste of summer. They will still have ability to add Gay or AI type player should they become available.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    It's disappointing that since VC we really haven't had a star player which could make us a legitimate threat in the playoffs, but I think T. Ross could very well be the closest to VC since he left. Add Jonas to the mix and quality players like Lowry, and Bargani and we could be closer than you would first think. At least that's what I keep telling myself.

  7. #47
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    The roster as it currently is, IS ENOUGH - obviously if we could get a great SF that would help, but we wont (no free agents available and no trades worth it) - we are a first round playoff team at worst. Demar will improve, Bargnani will play like last year and Kyle Lowry will be the leader we have been dying to have for the last few years, Lowry demands effort and defence from himself and he will demand it from his teammates. The only question mark is JV, can he be serviceable in his rookie year.

  8. #48
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I don't understand why ppl feel that playoffs are out the question next year. When Bargnani was playing last year we were in contention for the eight seed. Now we come back with a better roster and you guys don't think we will be in contention for at least eight? IMO were just as Talented as Philly if not more talented.
    Well, it doesn't help that Washington and Brooklyn got significantly better in the offseason...

  9. #49
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    +1 I can't believe the dissapointment I'm reading about Fields. The guy can really play solid basketball.
    It's cuz people only look at statistics and nothing else.

  10. #50
    Raptors Republic Rookie Phat Farmer's Avatar
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    I think the roster makeover this summer has gone as well as can be expected. It's nice to have been in the conversations for Iggy & Gay, but I dont think there were ever any real discussions surrounding those players. My hope is that we can eventually pry Gay from Memphis at the deadline, but that would require one or 2 of our younger players to take a major step forward since Memphis would need atleast 1 or 2 of our young guys to make up for loosing Gay.

    I for one LOVE the Landry Fields acquistion. Even if his fair market value was say $3-$4 million, we needed to overpay given he was a RFA who the Knicks would've loved to have back. Overpaying by $2 million, for a young player, on a short contract, with lots of room to grow, is peanuts. When you look at the contract being handed out around the league, the fact that the two highest contracts on our team are at $10ish mil/year I'm quite happy with the way BC has managed the cap and left room for us to do something next summer as well. Kudos BC, now let's get the season started and get these guys on the court!!

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Knicks played their best ball with Fields but I think you have your mind made up so I'll agree to disagree.
    Fair enough. Again .. Im not saying I dont like the guy .. I think hes a good pick up. We should have got him for more like 3 yrs $10-$15 mm .. but c'est la vie .. hes certainly not the only overpaid FA this summer.

    My bigger issue (and Im surprised by the visceral reaction) is that we love to claim that playing for a good / great team is equivilent with being a good / great player.

    Jamal was obviously an extreme example .. and wasnt meaning to compare him to Landry straight up .. simply to say that just like bad teams, good teams have a roster of 12-15 guys that vary tremendously. The stars on good teams are better than the "stars" on bad teams. And the role players on good teams are better than the role players on bad teams.

    But, lets not confuse ourselves that Landry (essentially a role player for NYK .. thats hard to debate with Carmelo, Amare, Chandler and Lin to a lesser extent the "stars") is better than good players on bad teams. Hes an upgrade from JJ / LK (not a huge one, but an upgrade) .. for now thats as far as Ill go. Hes still 5th on the depth chart here (AB, KL, DD, JV in some order) just like he was there ...

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    I would agrue he probably did about the same for us as he did for the Heat, toughness and leadership and if you listen to Casey a pretty important part of the culture change in the locker room.
    More importantly you are comparing apples to Oranges with this. Fields was a starter getting starters minutes, JM was not.
    Agreed. Toughness and leadership which, while great attributes, did next to nothing for us in the grand scheme of things. Point being .. he was a scrub who gave leadership and toughness to the Heat .. and then was a scrub who gave leadership and toughness to us.

    Similarly, I expect Landry to be a 5th starter who battles for minutes with LK/TR for us, the same way he was a fifth starter that battled for minutes with Novak and JR Smith in NY.

    Thats not necessarily a bad thing. Hes an upgrade to what we had before .. and thats good. Im just saying this whole "he played on a winning team .. thats gonna rub off on guys" I beleive is extremely overrated.

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Fair enough. Again .. Im not saying I dont like the guy .. I think hes a good pick up. We should have got him for more like 3 yrs $10-$15 mm .. but c'est la vie .. hes certainly not the only overpaid FA this summer.

    My bigger issue (and Im surprised by the visceral reaction) is that we love to claim that playing for a good / great team is equivilent with being a good / great player.

    Jamal was obviously an extreme example .. and wasnt meaning to compare him to Landry straight up .. simply to say that just like bad teams, good teams have a roster of 12-15 guys that vary tremendously. The stars on good teams are better than the "stars" on bad teams. And the role players on good teams are better than the role players on bad teams.

    But, lets not confuse ourselves that Landry (essentially a role player for NYK .. thats hard to debate with Carmelo, Amare, Chandler and Lin to a lesser extent the "stars") is better than good players on bad teams. Hes an upgrade from JJ / LK (not a huge one, but an upgrade) .. for now thats as far as Ill go. Hes still 5th on the depth chart here (AB, KL, DD, JV in some order) just like he was there ...
    Good points raised.

    I can live with the 1-3m per season overpayment considering he is an upgrade to overall talent and he was a RFA.

    I look at depth chart by position which I am not sure is correct or not. Looking frOm positional perspective certainly puts him in a different light, IMO.

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic Rookie Phat Farmer's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Fair enough. Again .. Im not saying I dont like the guy .. I think hes a good pick up. We should have got him for more like 3 yrs $10-$15 mm .. but c'est la vie .. hes certainly not the only overpaid FA this summer.
    If you would've been happy to have him at $5 million a year (with a stronger risk of the Knicks matching) then i'm not sure why you'd be unhappy to have him at $6.3 per year and almost ensuring the Knicks dont match. Whether it's a trade or FA signing, especially for good players, there is rarely ever fair value given up.

  15. #55
    Raptors Republic Rookie Phat Farmer's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Agreed. Toughness and leadership which, while great attributes, did next to nothing for us in the grand scheme of things.
    So you are saying adding toughness and leadership, to a young team severely lacking in both does nothing for us in the grand scheme of things? That maybe true for the heat given the abundance of talent and experience on the team. I think it did wonders for the players in practice and off the court, which naturally translates onto the court. Jamal was even key in quite a few games where we were getting dismantled by the other team. He may not have come in and dropped 10-15 points, but he was a huge presence for us, both on and off the court and is still of value to us going into this season, especially with JV coming over.

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I guess there's some disappointment in the sense that Colangelo hinted that this summer's "makeover" would be very significant. But the club's biggest hole (SF) has yet to be addressed.

    But in terms of the long-term plan, no complaints (other than potentially losing a lotto pick next summer).
    To me the disappointment is the lack of change, similar to what Slaw was saying. Filling the hole at SF is nothing. Filling the gapping hole of superstar or allstar calibre play is what was needed.

    Colangelo spent the last season and a half to two seasons tanking and opening up cap space in order to build a team whose ceiling is looking like a first round exit, maybe 2nd round if some injuries happen to other teams at the right time.

    Would have much rather waited another year or two, kept rebuilding, kept drafting and tried for something better.

  17. #57
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    I didn't watch every Knicks/Heat game, but I seem to remember Landy looking lost/overwhelmed and laying a massive egg in the playoffs last year... and Knicks fans lamenting they had to play him after Shumpert went down.


    And really, when James freakin' Dolan looks at a contract and says "Are they crazy? I'm not paying that!" It's a red flag. :-P

  18. #58
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Phat Farmer wrote: View Post
    If you would've been happy to have him at $5 million a year (with a stronger risk of the Knicks matching) then i'm not sure why you'd be unhappy to have him at $6.3 per year and almost ensuring the Knicks dont match. Whether it's a trade or FA signing, especially for good players, there is rarely ever fair value given up.
    Would have been "happy" at $10 mm ... could have justified $15 mm if I had to.

    None the less . your point is valid .. which is why Im not up in arms .. just think we could have done it cheaper (and likely would have if not for the Nash thing) ..

  19. #59
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    To me the disappointment is the lack of change, similar to what Slaw was saying. Filling the hole at SF is nothing. Filling the gapping hole of superstar or allstar calibre play is what was needed.

    Colangelo spent the last season and a half to two seasons tanking and opening up cap space in order to build a team whose ceiling is looking like a first round exit, maybe 2nd round if some injuries happen to other teams at the right time.

    Would have much rather waited another year or two, kept rebuilding, kept drafting and tried for something better.
    I'm no BC fan, but Lowry is a decent attempt to land a star caliber player. At least he's got the potential to be. Seems like a classic 'buy low' guy.

    I just wish we had one more asset besides Jose, Demar, and Big Ed to go after Iggy or Gay with.

  20. #60
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Given all of the talk of flexibility, cap room, hitting the ground running, making the playoffs, etc., this roster is a major disappointment. It's the same basic core of players plus Kyle Lowry. Fields isn't even worth mentioning. I know that for the past 6 years Colangelo has told us it takes big men about 5-6 years to develop in the NBA, well, he better hope that it takes Valanciunas about 5-6 weeks, otherwise, Bryan will be looking for a job next summer.
    I would like it if a real GM was hired and came in and tried to build this team properly next year, however I can't escape the feeling that Colangelo will get one more shot at continuing to mismanage the Toronto Raptors.

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