Being realistic....Players I Want on the Raptors in 2012-13

[planetmars]

JV from 2010-11 to 2011-12 was a big difference. He is working on his post game. It is not a finished product but it is not garbage either. He is a guy who has routinely put up 12 points on just 5 shots.

Lowry has a much better PER than Jose. Jose is much better on assist to turnover no doubt. Lowry's defence should help lead to easier buckets as well.

Not expecting much from Ross either but the comments about his defensive tenacity are great to hear. Good D leads to easy O. Beyond his rookie year though, he is likely to be at least on par with DeRozan, in my opinion.

I also assume Bargnani will be playing more than 31 games next season (I hope). That right there should give us a big offensive boost, if Lowry/Fields/JV/Ross does not.

[Matt52]

I also assume Bargnani will be playing more than 31 games next season (I hope). That right there should give us a big offensive boost, if Lowry/Fields/JV/Ross does not.

Very good point.

[tucas]

3rd string shooting guard E'Twaun Moore?

Going to be released it appears as part of Courtney Lee sign and trade.

Low-risk pick up.

Minimum contract.

Good college career.

I was thinking the same thing. I remember watching a few Boston games where he got minutes and he actually produced at a high level. Id like it if we got him as a 3rd string sg.

[NoBan]

If we continue to be cap savvy, then despite the fact that our assets are weak, what we can do is provide cap relief to some of those teams (especially Memphis). We can possibly take on Gay's salary without having to give back much. Plus some of our assets, even though they are weak can fill a big whole for a team like Memphis. They need a backup SG (DeMar to replace Mayo), and a backup big (Amir or Ed). Plus we could package multiple 2nd rounders, or work in a 1st rounder that doesn't interfere with the Lowry trade.

What we will have a hard time including though would be a pick because of that Lowry deal. However we already gained an additional 2nd rounder next year and could maybe make a move somewhere else to get more assets.

But some teams may want our poo poo platter of young assets with potential for their stud just so they can avoid luxury tax and/or start fresh (like Orlando with Howard, or Atlanta with Johnson).

Point taken, but I think youre justifying a trade based on desire to get Gay to the Raps.

Your arguments are well articulated, but I don't think Memphis moves a bona-fide talent in Gay for the ho-hum guys on our roster. Yes, the pieces fit, but the talent is just not enough to justify the move.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

If we continue to be cap savvy, then despite the fact that our assets are weak, what we can do is provide cap relief to some of those teams (especially Memphis). We can possibly take on Gay's salary without having to give back much. Plus some of our assets, even though they are weak can fill a big whole for a team like Memphis. They need a backup SG (DeMar to replace Mayo), and a backup big (Amir or Ed). Plus we could package multiple 2nd rounders, or work in a 1st rounder that doesn't interfere with the Lowry trade.

What we will have a hard time including though would be a pick because of that Lowry deal. However we already gained an additional 2nd rounder next year and could maybe make a move somewhere else to get more assets.

But some teams may want our poo poo platter of young assets with potential for their stud just so they can avoid luxury tax and/or start fresh (like Orlando with Howard, or Atlanta with Johnson).

I absolutely agree. Perhaps Calderon & 2nd round pick (or 2 2nd round picks) would be enough to entice a team to give a 1st round pick back in return, if they are only offering a 2nd round pick now, for example. The cap space & 1st round pick could then help facilitate a trade for a stud SF, along with other good assets (ie: Amir/Davis/DeRozan).

You can't just look at this roster/assets and assume it's a 1-step process to acquire a star talent. A good GM has to be able to look several trades ahead (also why it's good not just judge any trade in a vacuum) and/or find a 3rd or even 4th team to bring into a potential deal, to ensure that assets line-up and fit the needs of each team.

[planetmars]

Point taken, but I think youre justifying a trade based on desire to get Gay to the Raps.

Your arguments are well articulated, but I don't think Memphis moves a bona-fide talent in Gay for the ho-hum guys on our roster. Yes, the pieces fit, but the talent is just not enough to justify the move.

I admit, I've been on the Gay band-wagon for a long time.. so there is a lot of bias in my posts.. however I don't think its that unrealistic to think a team that is fighting luxury tax would have an issue trading their over paid star for young assets, cap space and picks.

Again Joe Johnson was traded for Anthony Morrow, Jordan Farmar, DeShawn Stevenson, Jordan Williams, Johan Petro and a non lottery pick.

My point is that a star player could be traded for crap, if what they get in return is a cap space, a chance to get out of mediocrity, or to start fresh. Toronto could offer DeMar, Davis, Jose, and 2 2nd round picks. That looks like a pile of crap, but it's a better deal than what Atlanta got for Joe Johnson in my opinion. There are not a lot of teams that would be willing to take on Gay's salary.. and if Memphis does part with him it would be to get out of luxury tax, so they wouldn't want much salary back for him. To trade him for a star then would be difficult since most stars make a lot of money.

[Blacklash2k4]

Sorry I didn't really answer your question. I think SF remains our weakest position (until T. Ross gets strong enough to move to SF that is), so anyone better than L. Fields would be great. I like Granger for his leadership, Iggy for his defense and Gay for his scoring.

Iggy is definitely a realistic possibility. Gay is possible but more unlikely now that we have less to offer. I don't think Granger is a possibility at the moment to the Raptors.

[Blacklash2k4]

I think Philly are in for a fall.

They have no one near Elton "Old Man" Brand's abilities on O or D among their current bigs.

Not sure Young will be able to do what Williams did.

Royal Ivey makes John Lucas III look like a first team all NBA.

Harkless is a talent no question but he is also a project.

Hopefully Doug Collins does what he has done in every other stop: wear on the players to the point of tuning out. Combine that with a downgrade in talent (my opinion!) and AI is shopped for real come December.

lol you forgot to mention that they expect to start Kwame Brown as their center :P

[Blacklash2k4]

Not sure everybody read the "being realistic" portion of the thread title.

Being realistic, the only assets we have as trade chips are Jose, Demar, Amir and Big Ed. That's not getting a deal for the likes of Gay, Iggy, Granger, etc done.

Realistically, Jose is the only bullet we have left to fire and we'll probably get something similar to what Barbosa brought in last year (ie: nothing).

Iggy is definite possibility! The rest you've listed, Gay and Granger, aren't.

[Usagi_yo_Jimbo]

I know this is waaaay off topic(feel free to move). But, it seems that a bunch of the raptors are/were in vegas for the summer league. Last i count (well, ed and t-ross are there for summer league) Lowry, Fields, Derozan, Amir(i think) were all there. Are they maybe building they're chemistry early? Hangin out? Havin a mini summer camp. Cuz, most of the guys there are pretty much the core players this season. I'm just sayin that, thats really cool if they are preppin for the seasons months before training camp.

[Blacklash2k4]

I know this is waaaay off topic(feel free to move). But, it seems that a bunch of the raptors are/were in vegas for the summer league. Last i count (well, ed and t-ross are there for summer league) Lowry, Fields, Derozan, Amir(i think) were all there. Are they maybe building they're chemistry early? Hangin out? Havin a mini summer camp. Cuz, most of the guys there are pretty much the core players this season. I'm just sayin that, thats really cool if they are preppin for the seasons months before training camp.

If they are, then that's great. It's good to have early team chemistry. It reduces the possibility of a bad start to the season.

[Nilanka]

According to a source, a trade involving Iguodala “won’t happen” during the off-season. As a result of that, the Sixers’ off-season tinkering to their roster is complete and aside from a few free agents who get invitations to training camp, the team is set.

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/31/an...traded-sixers/

Well, so much for that plan....

[CalgaryRapsFan]

http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/31/an...traded-sixers/

Well, so much for that plan....

Just like the Raptors' PF logjam, I really don't see how all Philly's wings are going to get enough playing time

PG: Holliday, Ivey, Wayns
SG: Turner, N.Young
SF: Iggy, Wright, Harkless
PF: T.Young, Allen, Moultrie
C: Hawes, Brown, Vucevic

I'm really not sure how they intend to develop Harkless, unless they plan on using Turner at PG some of the time. Thad Young is more of a tweener PF/SF than a true PF, but I assume that he'll play exclusively at PF now (I could see them wanting an upgrade at starting PF).

I don't think it's a stretch for Iggy to be on the move at the trade deadline. A team to possibly watch/include could be Utah, with their glut of bigs - maybe a guy like Millsap ($8.6M expiring contract) goes to Philly to solidify their starting PF spot. The question is how Toronto can get involved using Calderon ($10.6M expiring) & likely 1 of Amir/Davis or possibly even DeRozan (especially if Fields & Ross have strong seasons), to land Iggy in a multi-team trade.

[Mediumcore]

Let's see how the new ownership of Bell/Rogers changes things. Could be that they don't mind going into the luxury tax to land a big time player. I'm hoping we could get a game changing type of player. Iggy is a nice player, but he's getting up there in age and frankly I don't associate him with winning and he doesn't have the ability to take over a game on his own. Perhaps I'm not being realistic, but at some point the Rap's have got to make a move for a star player if they want to make a serious run in the playoffs.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Let's see how the new ownership of Bell/Rogers changes things. Could be that they don't mind going into the luxury tax to land a big time player. I'm hoping we could get a game changing type of player. Iggy is a nice player, but he's getting up there in age and frankly I don't associate him with winning and he doesn't have the ability to take over a game on his own. Perhaps I'm not being realistic, but at some point the Rap's have got to make a move for a star player if they want to make a serious run in the playoffs.

I'm curious who you think is more of a star player than Iggy, who might realistically be available for the Raps to target. Rudy Gay is the only other player that comes to my mind.

At the trade deadline, I could see some big names (or more likely just big contracts) being made available. I think a package of Calderon (just a half season of his $10.6M expiring contract, plus Toronto could include up to $3M cash) & Davis (good young PF on expiring contract with 2 team option years) & DeRozan (good young wing on expiring contract with full RFA/Bird rights) would be quite enticing to a team looking to rebuild, retool or free cap space.

If Fields returns to his rookie season form, Ross shows he is worthy of being a lottery pick and Kleiza shows that his injuries are behind him, then I could see DeRozan becoming quite expendable, especially given the fact that he'll be looking for a big payday in the offseason.

Lowry already makes Calderon expendable, plus he could still be signed as an UFA next offseason, to return to Toronto as a $5M veteran backup PG... could be a total win-win trade for Toronto.

Amir already makes Davis expendable (or vice-versa). If Acy shows that he is a legit NBA backup capable of playing spot minutes and if you also consider that a healthy Kleiza could play some minutes at PF in smaller 2nd unit, then one of Amir/Davis becomes even more expendable than they already are.

Calderon & Davis & DeRozan is just over $16.1M in combined salary. When you consider the salary cap trading rule for teams over the cap: Max Incoming Salary = [(total salary going out * 1.25)+$125K], then the Raps could take back a little over $20.26M for those 3 players. It should be a very interesting season, leading up to the trade deadline, especially with the new luxury tax model coming in.

[Nilanka]

Depending on how much of a larger role Paul George plays this year, Granger could be attainable.

[Nilanka]

Let's see how the new ownership of Bell/Rogers changes things. Could be that they don't mind going into the luxury tax to land a big time player. I'm hoping we could get a game changing type of player. Iggy is a nice player, but he's getting up there in age and frankly I don't associate him with winning and he doesn't have the ability to take over a game on his own. Perhaps I'm not being realistic, but at some point the Rap's have got to make a move for a star player if they want to make a serious run in the playoffs.

I agree that Iggy isn't the guy you run an ISO for and ask to win games in the clutch. But with Lowry capable of handling that role, Iggy now seems to fit our roster.

[isaacthompson]

I was thinking the same thing. I remember watching a few Boston games where he got minutes and he actually produced at a high level. Id like it if we got him as a 3rd string sg.

what about JaJuan Johnson as a 3rd string SG? I think he was involved in the Courtney Lee sign-and-trade as well. He can hit the mid range jumper and has some attack at the rim

[Mediumcore]

I'm curious who you think is more of a star player than Iggy, who might realistically be available for the Raps to target. Rudy Gay is the only other player that comes to my mind.

At the trade deadline, I could see some big names (or more likely just big contracts) being made available. I think a package of Calderon (just a half season of his $10.6M expiring contract, plus Toronto could include up to $3M cash) & Davis (good young PF on expiring contract with 2 team option years) & DeRozan (good young wing on expiring contract with full RFA/Bird rights) would be quite enticing to a team looking to rebuild, retool or free cap space.

If Fields returns to his rookie season form, Ross shows he is worthy of being a lottery pick and Kleiza shows that his injuries are behind him, then I could see DeRozan becoming quite expendable, especially given the fact that he'll be looking for a big payday in the offseason.

Lowry already makes Calderon expendable, plus he could still be signed as an UFA next offseason, to return to Toronto as a $5M veteran backup PG... could be a total win-win trade for Toronto.

Amir already makes Davis expendable (or vice-versa). If Acy shows that he is a legit NBA backup capable of playing spot minutes and if you also consider that a healthy Kleiza could play some minutes at PF in smaller 2nd unit, then one of Amir/Davis becomes even more expendable than they already are.

Calderon & Davis & DeRozan is just over $16.1M in combined salary. When you consider the salary cap trading rule for teams over the cap: Max Incoming Salary = [(total salary going out * 1.25)+$125K], then the Raps could take back a little over $20.26M for those 3 players. It should be a very interesting season, leading up to the trade deadline, especially with the new luxury tax model coming in.

In this current climate where Ryan Anderson is receiving a contract which pays him $9 million a season, and Roy Hibbert and Eric Gordon are getting max contracts I think waiting until the next off season to give James Harden a max offer is not unreasonable. Or perhaps a trade with OKC during the season if you can get some sort of commitment from Harden. Move Ross to SF next season and say good-bye to the days of being a bottom dweller in the east.

Lowry
Harden
T. Ross
Bargnani
JV

[Mediumcore]

I'm thinking someone with potential to be a all star. I like Lowry as well, but I don't think he's got the ability to take over a game. James Harde and his stupid beard fits the bill imo. I'd be okay with a max offer sent his way.