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Thread: Bill Simmons Sums Up our Offseason

  1. #41
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    Its pretty obvious that Fields was a gamble to sign Nash. At least BC took the gamble. To be honest who cares if he's worth the money, at least BC gave it a shot. Theres no doubt he attempted a ton of different scenarios to improve the team. Having to take on Fields? meh, at least hes not lazy like turkoglu and he is an improvement over Kleiza.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    1) I agree - his writing is extremely entertaining .. hes been able to capture sports in a way that not many (if any) have .. from the eye of the fan with a relateable twist
    2) what sports "journalists" do you like to read? I find interesting that any of us .. who spend our time reading blogs and comments from random dudes should come down on Simmons for his lack of "journalism" .. needless to say hes infinitely more qualified that we are
    3) I can safely say Ive read / listened to 99% of his stuff over the last 5-10 years .. and its completely inaccurate to say that he continually makes relocation / digs at the Raps. He priases the fan base for being ravid .. and repeatedly talks about how much he likes Canada and Canadians in general.

    Dont mean to attack you as you have been somewhat balanced on him relative to others .. but if people actually read / listened to his stuff you'd realize hes the furthest thing from a raps hater ..
    1) Glad we can agree. For the record I am also fine with disagreeing.
    2) There is a huge difference between Bill Simmons and Woj, Marc Stein, Zach Lowe, Howard Beck, David Aldridge, Ken Berger, to name just a few. Simmons is opinionated entertainment. The others listed report news and stories. If you can agree, great, if not, that is fine to.
    3) I can safely say I've not read or listened to anywhere near 99% of his stuff over the last 5-10 years. I will take you at your word that I am incorrect. However, from the stuff I have read I routinely get the impression that the Raptors are an easy target to make fun of (which is fine because it is deserving, winning cures all, and I have no problem with bashing the Raptors on court 'success') and he perpetuates the notion of Raptor relocation. Even the original post had this line to end the quoted article: "We don't need to get rid of basketball in Canada just yet." I am willing to admit I could be a panzy ass, over sensitive, inferiority complex possessing Raptor fan but, on this matter, I feel confident in my opinion and am willing to disagree on the matter.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Starter Pill's Avatar
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    I like Simmons for what he is. Entertainment. I listen to his podcast on a regular basis and it is entertaining but he is not exactly the most informed person ever. He questioned how Bargs and JV would be able to play together pretty recently. He also flip flops hard on certain things. Earlier in the year he wanted the Celtics to trade Rondo. During the playoffs he was a born again Rondo fan.

    His Toronto moving comments to me seem more like some tongue in cheek jab than anything else. In a lot of ways this franchise is in trouble from a perception standpoint. It is almost impossible to lure free agents here. Even more so than the worst American NBA town. That is why I was so happy to hear Landry Fields comments about how he loved the city. Guy is coming from NY and he heaps praise on the city. That speaks pretty loudly to me.

    Look at when Vancouver had a team, a city that is usually ranked as one of the Top 5 cities in the entire world had idiots that go public and say that they didn't want to play there. They would rather play in Houston lol. Its all perception. Far from reality.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    1) Glad we can agree. For the record I am also fine with disagreeing.
    2) There is a huge difference between Bill Simmons and Woj, Marc Stein, Zach Lowe, Howard Beck, David Aldridge, Ken Berger, to name just a few. Simmons is opinionated entertainment. The others listed report news and stories. If you can agree, great, if not, that is fine to.
    3) I can safely say I've not read or listened to anywhere near 99% of his stuff over the last 5-10 years. I will take you at your word that I am incorrect. However, from the stuff I have read I routinely get the impression that the Raptors are an easy target to make fun of (which is fine because it is deserving, winning cures all, and I have no problem with bashing the Raptors on court 'success') and he perpetuates the notion of Raptor relocation. Even the original post had this line to end the quoted article: "We don't need to get rid of basketball in Canada just yet." I am willing to admit I could be a panzy ass, over sensitive, inferiority complex possessing Raptor fan but, on this matter, I feel confident in my opinion and am willing to disagree on the matter.
    fair enough .. there is no doubt that DA, Stein etc serve a different purpse (although the lines are blurring given many of these guys get a lot of their airtime via twitter these days - a forum that is arguably more "simmons-esque" in the sense that its meant to be punchy, get out a fact and give a quick take on a situation.) But .. this is semantics .. not really worth arguing about .. other than to say I bet if you asked most of the guys you listed whether or not they respect bill's work / opinions, you would get a resounding yes.
    On the last point ... he does make toungue and cheek references' to/jabs at the Raps .. and, as an american, he still has the same biases that most americans do (including the "journalists" you mention, btw). But, if you focus on the odd snipit (he pokes fun at pretty much everything including his celtics and basically every player / member of mgmt there), you will miss the substance .. which is generally speaking very pro raps and pro Canada ..

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    fair enough .. there is no doubt that DA, Stein etc serve a different purpse (although the lines are blurring given many of these guys get a lot of their airtime via twitter these days - a forum that is arguably more "simmons-esque" in the sense that its meant to be punchy, get out a fact and give a quick take on a situation.) But .. this is semantics .. not really worth arguing about .. other than to say I bet if you asked most of the guys you listed whether or not they respect bill's work / opinions, you would get a resounding yes.
    On the last point ... he does make toungue and cheek references' to/jabs at the Raps .. and, as an american, he still has the same biases that most americans do (including the "journalists" you mention, btw). But, if you focus on the odd snipit (he pokes fun at pretty much everything including his celtics and basically every player / member of mgmt there), you will miss the substance .. which is generally speaking very pro raps and pro Canada ..
    To be clear on first bold point: I've never questioned his writing ability. Much like the majority of professional wrestlers are very much gifted athletes, Simmons is a very gifted writer.

    Second bold point: I think we've mutually reached the point of agreeing to disagree

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Rookie jamesk's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Just to clarify:

    1) I think he is a great writer,
    2) I do not consider him a journalist,
    3) I am tired of his relocation/digs against Raptors/Toronto - I find it ignorant given how profitable and strong the fan base is and akin to picking on the fat kid with the stutter in grade school because the majority are ignorant enough to find it hilarious.
    While I can take or leave Simmons depending on the article and/or the gimmicks he's using in a sentence, I hope y'all realize he's been making unveiled reference to being a raptor fan baiter for years, yes?

  7. #47
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    What is most refreshing about Simmons' writing is that he writes from the viewpoint of a fan, a Celtics fan with Clippers season tickets. It's easy for him to marginalize the Raptors and Canada for that matter because his loyalty is to all things Boston and the fact that his employer, ESPN is blocked from broadcasting into the Canadian market.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Starter theycallmeZZ's Avatar
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    Quote jamesk wrote: View Post
    I hope y'all realize he's been making unveiled reference to being a raptor fan baiter for years, yes?
    Would you say he's a master baiter?

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    I have no problem with Simmons, and greatly enjoyed reading his basketball bible. He does write from a more fan perspective than journalist perspective. However, he regularly misquotes the details of signings and contracts, making them sound worse they than often are. I imagine he does this for two reasons, 1) He likes baiting people (not just raps fans) and 2) Because a "horrible deal" is more likely to get people to read than "pretty average deal".

    Simmons, and Grantland can be a good source of entertainment and information, but when it comes to "breaking news" Simmons can't be relied upon to be accurate.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  10. #50
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    The guy makes fun of every franchise in the league, including bashing his Celtics when he doesn't like a move they've made. If you can't step back and laugh at the franchise you support every once in a while, you definitely take this shit far too seriously.

  11. #51
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    I'm very surprised at the negativity towards simmons here. Even the guys saying he's good for "entertainment." Come on, he really knows his shit, especially about basketball. I'd go so far to say that he knows more about basketball than anybody on raptors republic. He's entertaining, yes. But his popularity is based as much on this depth of sports knowledge as it is on this entertaining style of writing.

    The point that he is not a "journalist" is irrelevant for the purposes of discussing his take on the raptors offseason, and I don't know why it was even brought up.

    He does make jokes about relocation from time to time, but if you're taking that personally, it's time to grow up a bit. Those jokes are part of being a sad-sack franchise that's perpetually in the lottery. If anything, you should be upset with colangelo for putting us in position to be the butt of these jokes.

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Some yuks are blown at every team though, that's like getting mad at an insult comic

    and the entertaining time was mostly those 2 years we made the playoffs, especially when garbo and parker first came


    and matt fair enough, I am a big Simmons fan but I also don't think he wrote anything ridiculous here, just the facts mixed with comedy.
    I actually think the article is a very funny and accurate description of the off season.

    But then he goes and spoils it with that last line. That is the type of shit that bothers me about him. Again, I'm willing to admit I am a sensitive, panzy, touchy, thin-skinned Raptor fan but the relocation stuff is ridiculously ignorant. We will likely find 15 franchises - some of which are playoff teams - that are more likely to be moved when looking at fan support and profitability.

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I actually think the article is a very funny and accurate description of the off season.

    But then he goes and spoils it with that last line. That is the type of shit that bothers me about him. Again, I'm willing to admit I am a sensitive, panzy, touchy, thin-skinned Raptor fan but the relocation stuff is ridiculously ignorant. We will likely find 15 franchises - some of which are playoff teams - that are more likely to be moved when looking at fan support and profitability.
    Simmons thinks very highly of the Raptors fan base.. he just doesn't like Colangelo and how the team is run in general. I think those remarks he makes are in jest to rile up the Raptor fan base even more because it is a touchy subject for most of us (actually if I recall once he actually admitted doing it for that reason in one of his mailbags that he had). We don't attract free agents (primarily because of our win/loss record, not necessarily geography) and we already lost a team out in Vancouver. He does it to be jokey not mean. I think deep down Simmons would like to see the Raps start winning because he appreciates teams with a good fan base.

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic Rookie 10 000 Hours's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    3) I am tired of his relocation/digs against Raptors/Toronto - I find it ignorant given how profitable and strong the fan base is and akin to picking on the fat kid with the stutter in grade school because the majority are ignorant enough to find it hilarious.
    Yes, it can be ignorant, but as you said, the Raptors are not leaving Toronto, so why care so much what one person says? I dislike hearing what he says sometimes, but he is who he is.

    I think many Toronto fans have chips on their shoulders (myself included) because we're often the lone Canadian city (except NHL of course) to play in the American professional leagues. Sometimes I wonder if Simmons is doing this only to infuriate the fans of Toronto.

    And I think the last thing the NBA wants is to contract the league from an international market. They're trying to grow the brand globally and Toronto shipping town would be a huge blow Stern and co. Best thing to do is just laugh when Simmons talks bs.
    Walking like I'm already there.

  15. #55
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote 10 000 Hours wrote: View Post
    Yes, it can be ignorant, but as you said, the Raptors are not leaving Toronto, so why care so much what one person says? I dislike hearing what he says sometimes, but he is who he is.

    I think many Toronto fans have chips on their shoulders (myself included) because we're often the lone Canadian city (except NHL of course) to play in the American professional leagues. Sometimes I wonder if Simmons is doing this only to infuriate the fans of Toronto.

    And I think the last thing the NBA wants is to contract the league from an international market. They're trying to grow the brand globally and Toronto shipping town would be a huge blow Stern and co. Best thing to do is just laugh when Simmons talks bs.
    Solid points and good advice.

  16. #56
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    Quote theycallmeZZ wrote: View Post
    Would you say he's a master baiter?
    I thought your comment was funny.

    As to Simmons, any C*ntics fan can eat shit and die.
    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

  17. #57
    Raptors Republic Starter Mess's Avatar
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    He's called "The Sports Guy" for a reason. He loves sports, he's incredibly enthusiastic about the NBA and while he does know a ton, he doesn't know everything (which doesn't stop him from acting like he does sometimes). Not a journalist, he was basically a blogger before that term existed and put a lot of effort in to make it to where he is today.

    His writing is entertaining and he has some funny stuff, but that Toronto relocation line was simply just a throwaway joke. There's no notion to perpetuate about the Raptors moving, yes you are thin-skinned and sensitive.

    He had Chad Ford on his podcast a few weeks ago, they were chatting about JV and he was drinking the kool aid and getting hyped. I was excited that a notable American sports media outlet was talking about the Raptors, but that excitement ended once he made up some ridiculous trades where the Raptors ended up with Pau Gasol and Steve Nash (He'd fit right in on the Trade forum).

    He's a fan, not a journalist, and for all the NBA knowledge he has, sometimes he sounds like he doesn't have a clue.

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    his comments are pretty accurate. I don't like that last line, but all of us know canadian basketball is in no danger of leaving so who gives a shit what he thinks anyways. NoBan ,even by my standards you cry too much.....

  19. #59
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    Simmons is a fun read. I like his stuff. But not a journalist.

    About Landry Fields, though:

    you guys know that if Landry Fields signed ANY offer sheet with Toronto, he couldn't be used in a sign and trade, right? So Toronto did not have to give him a big contract in order to sabotage the Knicks. Even if it was a contract that the Knicks were sure to match, it would serve the purpose.

    Therefore, the fact that the contract was made a poison pill means Colangelo ACTUALLY WANTED TO SIGN FIELDS. It was not necessary to offer Fields that much money unless Colangelo did not want the Knicks to match. Therefore, the idea that we are 'stuck' with Fields is, from Colabgelo's perspective, false. He wanted Fields at that price regardless of whether Nash was coming.

    Therefore Simmons, unsurprisingly, doesn't know what the f*ck he is talking about and is totally misreading the situation.

  20. #60
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    So Bills Simmons is not a journalist. Don Cherry isn't a journalist either and he's the top sports media person in Canada. And since when did the NBA become 60 Minutes?

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