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Thread: Misconceptions about Derozan's Size

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    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Default Misconceptions about Derozan's Size

    Whenever a suggestion to play Derozan at the SF position gets brought up, the number one reason people point to as to why it should not happen is the belief that Derozan is somehow too small to guard SF's. I've heard it many times on this forum that "Derozan needs to bulk up before he can play the 3".

    So I wanted to do a little comparison between DD's physical attributes and some of the other SF's in the league that are known for their defense:

    Derozan: 6'7 216lbs

    Andre Iguodala: 6'6 207 lbs (known as one of the best defenders in the league at his position)
    Luol Deng: 6'9 220 lbs (known as a great defender)
    Landry Fields (not one of the best known, but often mentioned as a better choice than demar): 6'7 215 lbs

    As we can see from here, Derozan's size is more than adequate enough to defend most SF's. Sure their are going to be some SF's that will be tougher to guard (lebron, paul pierce) but those guys are tough match ups for anyone in the league.

    Even a guy like Sefolosha who is known as one of the best wing defenders in the league, a guy who guarded lebron james in the NBA finals is 6'7 215lbs slightly smaller than Demar is.

    So I think it is time for us to dispel these notions that Demar cannot play the 3 because of his size, it is simply not true, he can play that position he is at the very least the average size to play it, and at best he is more athletically gifted than most SF's.

    Now learning how to play defense is another thing. I am not saying that he is a good defender, simply that size is not an issue for him defending SF. For those that say that he would be even more of a liability guarding the 3 as opposed to the 2, I believe that the SG position is probably one of the toughest positions to guard (after the PG).

    In fact seeing as how his long range shooting is well below NBA SG's, but he does have a strong mid range jumper, it might make more sense to park a 3pt shooting threat at the SG (fields) and have Demar play the 3 so he can use his mid range jumper and slash to the hoop.

    What do you guys think?

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Garbo's Avatar
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    I'm glad you posted these comparisons.. I really did believe that Demar was much smaller. When I think Demar I can't picture him bigger than Igoudala

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    There are misconceptions about Demar's height. He's actually 6'5.5". Igoudala is a quarter inch taller. His standing reach is two inches greater than DD. Landry Fields is a whole inch taller. I have no measurement stats for Sefolosha.

    Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/
    Last edited by stretch; Mon Jul 23rd, 2012 at 10:16 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    There are misconceptions about Demar's height. He's actually 6'5.5". Igoudala is a quarter inch taller. His standing reach is two inches greater than DD. Landry Fields is a whole inch taller. I have no measurement stats for Sefolosha.

    Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/
    All of my measurements are from NBA.com, seems like a credible source to me, here is a link for Demar's stats:

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/demar_derozan/

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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    All of my measurements are from NBA.com, seems like a credible source to me, here is a link for Demar's stats:

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/demar_derozan/
    draftexpress.com's measurements are also from the NBA which publishes the pre draft measurements of those candidates that show up to the NBA's pre draft camp at the University of Illinois at Chicago (usually). They are official NBA stats and they measure with and without shoes.

    Andre Drummond caught some heat at this year's pre draft for wearing shoes that made him a full 2 inches taller.
    Last edited by stretch; Mon Jul 23rd, 2012 at 11:05 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie swingman's Avatar
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    Casey seems to be pretty keen on Demar playing SF eventually. Remember, Bruce Bowen was only 6'7, and he was one of the best defensive players ever. Also, Demar is more atheletic than Bowen, and still has a lot of growing room. If he keeps bulking up, there is no reason he couldn't do it.
    Also, I think Dennis Rodman proved that being tall isn't everything.

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    Quote swingman wrote: View Post
    Casey seems to be pretty keen on Demar playing SF eventually. Remember, Bruce Bowen was only 6'7, and he was one of the best defensive players ever. Also, Demar is more atheletic than Bowen, and still has a lot of growing room. If he keeps bulking up, there is no reason he couldn't do it.
    Also, I think Dennis Rodman proved that being tall isn't everything.

    The difference is they both wanted it.

    Derozan's only consistent quality is his lackadaisical approach to the game. But there is no doubt he has the physical tools. I like the kid. I really hope he can put it together.

    And there is NO WAY that Iggy is 206. Unless maybe he is like 0% percent body fat. The dude is jacked.

    for reference: http://photos.cleveland.com/plain-de...guodala_2.html

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    The source is questionable but it says that Sefalosha has a standing reach of 7'2". Demar's is 6'9" according to Draft Express.

    Source: http://forums.hoopshype.com/forums/i...c=18607.0;wap2

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    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    Whenever a suggestion to play Derozan at the SF position gets brought up, the number one reason people point to as to why it should not happen is the belief that Derozan is somehow too small to guard SF's. I've heard it many times on this forum that "Derozan needs to bulk up before he can play the 3".

    So I wanted to do a little comparison between DD's physical attributes and some of the other SF's in the league that are known for their defense:

    Derozan: 6'7 216lbs

    Andre Iguodala: 6'6 207 lbs (known as one of the best defenders in the league at his position)
    Luol Deng: 6'9 220 lbs (known as a great defender)
    Landry Fields (not one of the best known, but often mentioned as a better choice than demar): 6'7 215 lbs

    As we can see from here, Derozan's size is more than adequate enough to defend most SF's. Sure their are going to be some SF's that will be tougher to guard (lebron, paul pierce) but those guys are tough match ups for anyone in the league.

    Even a guy like Sefolosha who is known as one of the best wing defenders in the league, a guy who guarded lebron james in the NBA finals is 6'7 215lbs slightly smaller than Demar is.

    So I think it is time for us to dispel these notions that Demar cannot play the 3 because of his size, it is simply not true, he can play that position he is at the very least the average size to play it, and at best he is more athletically gifted than most SF's.

    Now learning how to play defense is another thing. I am not saying that he is a good defender, simply that size is not an issue for him defending SF. For those that say that he would be even more of a liability guarding the 3 as opposed to the 2, I believe that the SG position is probably one of the toughest positions to guard (after the PG).

    In fact seeing as how his long range shooting is well below NBA SG's, but he does have a strong mid range jumper, it might make more sense to park a 3pt shooting threat at the SG (fields) and have Demar play the 3 so he can use his mid range jumper and slash to the hoop.

    What do you guys think?
    Good comparisons there. I think his defensive skill compared to his size is really the only thing I'm worried about when playing the 3. The guy is inconsistent in his effort in playing defense, he was a much better defender in year 2.

    I watched an old game against the Cavs in the 2010-2011 season, and man Demar went after every guy he guarded, it just seems like he's taking a step back from that.

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    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    I've definitely fallen victim to this misconception in the past, thanks for the comparisons. What Iggy, Deng, Seflosha et al have that DD does not is the strength in his upper body to guard in the post. This is simply due to the fact that he is still maturing physically...the shift to SF is only a matter of time.

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    Quote IROR wrote: View Post
    I've definitely fallen victim to this misconception in the past, thanks for the comparisons. What Iggy, Deng, Seflosha et al have that DD does not is the strength in his upper body to guard in the post. This is simply due to the fact that he is still maturing physically...the shift to SF is only a matter of time.
    Defense, and certainly post defense, has nothing to do with upper body strength. It's all lower body/centre of gravity when it comes to pushing people off the block and holding your position. It's why Barkley was so great in the paint..

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    I think the key thing is that Iggy, Deng, Sefelosha etc.. are good defenders no matter what their size is wheras DeMar isn't. DeMar doesn't handle contact well wheras those other players mentioned invite it. It's not that there is a specific size DD needs to be to be a good defender, but in his specific case it would be better to get stronger in order to attempt to guard the SF position, as it will only help an already poor defender.

    One way or another it's going to require a complete dedication to defending for him to have any success at guarding SF. He can have a two inch growth spurt and his reach could somehow get longer, but if you're a poor defender, you're a poor defender.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote IROR wrote: View Post
    I've definitely fallen victim to this misconception in the past, thanks for the comparisons. What Iggy, Deng, Seflosha et al have that DD does not is the strength in his upper body to guard in the post. This is simply due to the fact that he is still maturing physically...the shift to SF is only a matter of time.
    Yup, I think strength is the main concern here. Despite DeRozan's weight, he's still not strong enough to power through defenders (on offense), or fight through screens (on defence).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Yup, I think strength is the main concern here. Despite DeRozan's weight, he's still not strong enough to power through defenders (on offense), or fight through screens (on defence).
    I would also question the desire to take the beating to do those things. A good part of being a great defender is having the mentality to be willing to sacrifice your body.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I would also question the desire to take the beating to do those things. A good part of being a great defender is having the mentality to be willing to sacrifice your body.
    I think this pretty much sums up why DeMar hasn't been a solid defender. He doesn't have that fire in him to take the beating a defender needs to take. He has the physical size, but I don't think he has that defensive mind. Maybe its a basketball IQ related issue? Maybe Casey can light that fire under him? I don't know...but I've never really been a fan of DeMar as a defender, and I've never attributed it to his size.

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    Quote Quito wrote: View Post
    I think this pretty much sums up why DeMar hasn't been a solid defender. He doesn't have that fire in him to take the beating a defender needs to take. He has the physical size, but I don't think he has that defensive mind. Maybe its a basketball IQ related issue? Maybe Casey can light that fire under him? I don't know...but I've never really been a fan of DeMar as a defender, and I've never attributed it to his size.
    If he doesn't get it this year, he never will. He has a contract extension on the line combined with more competition for playing time and a team desperate to make the playoffs.

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    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote Quito wrote: View Post
    I think this pretty much sums up why DeMar hasn't been a solid defender. He doesn't have that fire in him to take the beating a defender needs to take. He has the physical size, but I don't think he has that defensive mind. Maybe its a basketball IQ related issue? Maybe Casey can light that fire under him? I don't know...but I've never really been a fan of DeMar as a defender, and I've never attributed it to his size.
    I think that the reason why Demar is a weak defender is because the first 2 years of his NBA career he was coached by Jay Triano and played in the worst defensive team in the league. Lets face it defensively Jay Triano as a coach sucked, and playing for a team that is the worst in the league in defense makes you learn bad habits, I mean defense was just not a focus for the team pre-Casey.

    Give this guy 1-2 more years under Casey, I guarantee he will become a good defender, I mean if Andrea Bargnani's defense can improve the way we saw it did early in the season with no training camp, Demar's can improve too. The focus is now defense, and I have faith in Casey to teach these guys how to play hard on that side of the ball.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Thanks SuperRaptor for clarifying that. however I still think he needs to hit the weights hard this summer because it will pay off big time especially when initiating contact. I would eventually love to see a starting lineup including Ross and Derozan, but I think it will be fields starting alongside Derozan to start the season unless Ross makes a hell of an impression in training camp, which I cant really see happening.

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    demar whining about playing SF made me roll my eyes
    @jerboat

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    demar whining about playing SF made me roll my eyes
    Demar whined about playing small forward?

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