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Thread: Could Canada handle more than 1 NBA franchise?

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    Raptors Republic Starter omgsomuchpotential's Avatar
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    Default Could Canada handle more than 1 NBA franchise?

    If yes, how many?

    Would the fanbases of those clubs suffer? I think Raptors now have ~30 millions fans, no?

    I don't know much about your country, but from what I can put together, there might be possibilities for 5-6 franchises?..

    Toronto
    Vancouver
    Montreal
    Ottawa
    Calgary

    Thoughts? If you think the thread is bad, delete it. But I think every new thread might be a good thing in this boring time

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    Raptors Republic Starter theycallmeZZ's Avatar
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    One at a time

    In reality, they should actually start removing franchises, there's not enough talent to go around.

    These cities would be able to accommodate an NBA team, as they already have the infrastructure.

    I would love to see another Canadian NBA team, mainly in VAN, cause they got screwed.
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    Raptors Republic Rookie AlienOverlord's Avatar
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    I think the Grizzlies got pulled out way too quickly, I doubt they were among the worst earning teams in the league.
    I can't really say anything about Ottawa or Montreal, but my time in Calgary (many years ago) leads me to believe it wouldn't flourish there. Bunch of cowboys who probably think of basketball as a pussy sport because there isn't any tackling or fist fights. Lot people I knew growing up held that attitude (I didn't grow up in Calgary, but I'd imagine those kind of sentiments are stronger there).

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    Raptors Republic Rookie 10 000 Hours's Avatar
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    Vancouver could definitely support another team. But seems that maybe Las Vegas and Seattle are ahead of them for getting another team.

    I know there's no stadium, but man, I would love for Niagara to get a team. Then everyone in across the boarder would have a team to support.
    Walking like I'm already there.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Vancouver is the easy choice, after that it does get a little more difficult. Calgary is in a a period of rapid growth right now, but for how long with that be sustainable, Ottawa, while a great city with some solid basketball pedigree, may not be large enough to get 18,000 people to every game, Montreal has lots of basketball going on, but I wonder how the lack of a French connection would work, they get pretty pissy if the hockey team does not have a French coach and French Canadian players.

    As for another team in Toronto, now way that is happening.

    Rather than looking at NBA expansion (or team relocation) we should be looking at supporting the NBL Canada. This league is going into year two and seems to have been doing things the right way. Now boasting a solid 8 team league with teams in 5 provinces, the foundation is there to put down roots and become something special. I have had the opportunity to take in a game and the product on the floor was pretty good. The league has former NBA players, CIS all Canadians, former Canadian National team members, NCAA champions, as well as the lessor know guys who can really play. While I would like to see the mandatory minimum amount of Canadians on a team increase, I do think that starting at 2 kept the quality of play up.

    Give it a try and check it out.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Puffer's Avatar
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    The problem with Vancouver was they put a lousy product on the floor and didn't improve much...at least that is how I recall things.

    I'm onboard for boosting the NBL. I intend to attend all the home games in Oshawa this year. Only an hour drive. Probably go down with some buddies and make an evening of it. I believe a group is trying to get them to stage a pre-season exhibition game in Peterborough, which would be sweet.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    as long as vancouver doesn't try to draft ignorant players like stevie franchise they could still support a team.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NBA_Draft

    couple other players there that had better careers but would anyone of chosen them over francis?
    if the nba supported and protected them and the nba players union had any decency there would be a fantastic team still in vancouver right now. if heisley was an honest person there would still be a team there. if the nba had of taken over the team like the did the hornets, there would still be a team there.

    steve francis, antonio davis and eric lindros. the world doesn't need their kind of ignorance

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    The problem with Vancouver was they put a lousy product on the floor and didn't improve much...at least that is how I recall things.

    I'm onboard for boosting the NBL. I intend to attend all the home games in Oshawa this year. Only an hour drive. Probably go down with some buddies and make an evening of it. I believe a group is trying to get them to stage a pre-season exhibition game in Peterborough, which would be sweet.
    I think an exhibition game in Peterborough would be a pretty good thing, if they did it as a double header with Fleming college at the wellness center it would go over well. It is not a far drive from Peterborough to Oshawa so it makes sense to build a fan base there.

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    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    I can tell you there wouldn't be one in ottawa. Not exactly a hoops hotbed up here...

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote IROR wrote: View Post
    I can tell you there wouldn't be one in ottawa. Not exactly a hoops hotbed up here...
    You say that but Ottawa is home to Carleton University, hands down the best CIS program in the country, add in Ottawa U and Algonquin college, both teams respected programs in their leagues and you have a foundation of a good basketball community. The National Cadet men's team has two players form the Ottawa area on the team, Marial Shoyok (St Patrick's, Ottawa) and Chris Mccomber (John McCrae, Nepean), you could even put Kevin Zabo on the as he is from Gatineau, just across the river.

    Don't sell Ottawa short, while most places in Canada will always be "hockey" towns, basketball is ever growing and becoming more and more in the spot light, rather than bash your community and basketball, promote it.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    You say that but Ottawa is home to Carleton University, hands down the best CIS program in the country, add in Ottawa U and Algonquin college, both teams respected programs in their leagues and you have a foundation of a good basketball community. The National Cadet men's team has two players form the Ottawa area on the team, Marial Shoyok (St Patrick's, Ottawa) and Chris Mccomber (John McCrae, Nepean), you could even put Kevin Zabo on the as he is from Gatineau, just across the river.

    Don't sell Ottawa short, while most places in Canada will always be "hockey" towns, basketball is ever growing and becoming more and more in the spot light, rather than bash your community and basketball, promote it.
    Great insight! I live here and can tell you there is a strong basketball community and good foundation for basketball here. Ottawa is a city that mixes politics and education. Realistically speaking, I do not see Ottawa being capable of maintaining a nba franchise. The current stadium is located far on the outskirts of the city. I do think that if Ottawa gets a downtown stadium it might be able to sustain a franchise but that is a long-shot to say the least. Id prefer to see Vancouver and Montreal with a team. Those are two top notch cities in north america. MTL would be awesome because it is only 2 hrs away from Ottawa so I wouldn't be complaining :P but Vancouver probably deserves it more.

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    Raptors Republic Starter theycallmeZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Ambidextrious wrote: View Post
    The current stadium is located far on the outskirts of the city.
    Oddly enough, I believe the Pistons' arena is decently far from Detroit.
    Last edited by theycallmeZZ; Sun Aug 19th, 2012 at 09:37 PM.
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    Quote Ambidextrious wrote: View Post
    Great insight! I live here and can tell you there is a strong basketball community and good foundation for basketball here. Ottawa is a city that mixes politics and education. Realistically speaking, I do not see Ottawa being capable of maintaining a nba franchise. The current stadium is located far on the outskirts of the city. I do think that if Ottawa gets a downtown stadium it might be able to sustain a franchise but that is a long-shot to say the least. Id prefer to see Vancouver and Montreal with a team. Those are two top notch cities in north america. MTL would be awesome because it is only 2 hrs away from Ottawa so I wouldn't be complaining :P but Vancouver probably deserves it more.
    The bottom line is Ottawa is simply too small to get a franchise. Hockey is just able to keep its head above water .. basketball has no chance. I do agree that Ottawa has a decent basketball culture through Carleton etc .. but not enough to warrant a team.

    If I had to chose I think Id favour Montreal slightly ahead of Vancouver. Better business community and good fans with decent bball knowledge. Vancouver might benefit from Seatle not having a team any longer .. so might be able to give it a better go than last time (and the dollar at par doesnt hurt vs 65 cents where it was when the grizz were there).

    All in all though .. any city outside of Toronto has a marginal case for a team to me. Bball is getting a better following for sure .. but still nothing compared to even a Seattle, for example. The NBA wont be adding more teams any time soon .. so its a matter of stealing one from Sac town or somewhere else (charlotte?) that is struggling ...

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    Vancouver is the only city that could. Ottawa, montreal, and calgary have a 0% chance of acquiring an nba team. Vancouver could get one but right now they are far down on the waiting list.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Heres a list of cities by populations

    http://www.citypopulation.de/Canada-Metro.html

    Principal Metropolitan Areas
    Name Adm. A C 2011-05-10
    1Toronto ONT 5,583,064
    2Montréal QUE 3,824,221
    3Vancouver BC 2,313,328
    4Ottawa ONT 1,236,324
    5Calgary ALTA 1,214,839
    6Edmonton ALTA 1,159,869
    7Québec QUE 765,706
    8Winnipeg MAN 730,018
    9Hamilton ONT 721,053
    10Kitchener ONT 477,160
    11London ONT 474,786

    in contrast here are the top ten largest cities in the united states just to clear up some misconceptions about size:

    http://www.biggestuscities.com/

    1 New York New York 8,391,881[ny]
    2 Los Angeles California 3,831,868[ca]
    3 Chicago Illinois 2,851,268[il]
    4 Houston Texas 2,257,926[tx]
    5 Phoenix Arizona 1,593,659[az]
    6 Philadelphia Pennsylvania 1,547,297[pa]
    7 San Antonio city Texas 1,373,668[tx]
    8 San Diego California 1,306,300[ca]
    9 Dallas city Texas 1,299,542[tx]
    10 San Jose California 964,695[ca]

    If Ottawa was a city in the US it would be the 10th largest city so if any of these other cities can manage to sustain a pro sports franchise there is a case for my city. I'm sure with the right infrastructure in place Ottawa would manage. Toronto would place at a comfortable second place after NY and LA. Now looking at Montreal if it was an American city, it would be in third position, just ahead of Chicago. Lastly Vancouver would come in right after Montreal in 4th place. I'm sure these two cities would do just fine with a NBA franchise in town. Some people claim that there isn't any interest in basketball in Canada, I disagree. Look at some cities like Portland with 566,143 people or Orlando with only 235,860 people, still very able to maintain a NBA team. I cant see why Montreal or Vancouver can't.

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    Metropolitan areas are far more meaningful:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

    Even Ottawa, the fourth-largest metropolitan area in Canada, is still smaller than about 40 US cities. Orlando and Portland are both well over 2 million. Charlotte (1.8), Milwaukee (1.5), and Oklahoma City (1.2) are the only metro areas smaller than 2 million to have NBA teams. Ottawa's smaller than all of those places.

    I do think Vancouver and Montreal could each support a well-run NBA franchise, though.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    great point! at least Ottawa has a larger population that Utah :P

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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    Metropolitan areas are far more meaningful:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

    Even Ottawa, the fourth-largest metropolitan area in Canada, is still smaller than about 40 US cities. Orlando and Portland are both well over 2 million. Charlotte (1.8), Milwaukee (1.5), and Oklahoma City (1.2) are the only metro areas smaller than 2 million to have NBA teams. Ottawa's smaller than all of those places.

    I do think Vancouver and Montreal could each support a well-run NBA franchise, though.
    Exactly! thanks for this .. previous post was extremely misleading showing Canadian metro areas vs US cities (not metro areas). Ottawa is very small at #60 in North America ...

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    Vancouver is the easy choice, after that it does get a little more difficult. Calgary is in a a period of rapid growth right now, but for how long with that be sustainable, Ottawa, while a great city with some solid basketball pedigree, may not be large enough to get 18,000 people to every game, Montreal has lots of basketball going on, but I wonder how the lack of a French connection would work, they get pretty pissy if the hockey team does not have a French coach and French Canadian players.

    As for another team in Toronto, now way that is happening.

    Rather than looking at NBA expansion (or team relocation) we should be looking at supporting the NBL Canada. This league is going into year two and seems to have been doing things the right way. Now boasting a solid 8 team league with teams in 5 provinces, the foundation is there to put down roots and become something special. I have had the opportunity to take in a game and the product on the floor was pretty good. The league has former NBA players, CIS all Canadians, former Canadian National team members, NCAA champions, as well as the lessor know guys who can really play. While I would like to see the mandatory minimum amount of Canadians on a team increase, I do think that starting at 2 kept the quality of play up.

    Give it a try and check it out.
    I just wanted to revisit my original post now that we all basically agree that Vancouver and Montreal are currently the only other two cities in Canada with a population base large enough to sustain an NBA team, and that they are not getting one any-time soon, that we should show our support for the NBL Canada.

    Currently there is an Atlantic Division:
    Halifax
    Summerside
    Moncton
    St John
    And East Division
    Laval
    Oshawa
    London
    Windsor

    The league added Windsor for this season to bring the total teams to 8, they are not rapidly expanding and putting glorified men's league teams on the floor, they are doing it the right way, ensuring ownership groups are stable and in it for the long haul. While I think that there wont be any more teams out East, there is room for a few more in Ontario and plenty of options as you move west. Ontario could see places like Ottawa, Kingston, Kitchener/Waterloo, Scarborough, Mississauga(sp), St Catherine's, or Hamilton support a successful team. Now I am not saying all these places, but maybe having teams in 3 of those locations in the future.

    As we go west we have obvious choices like Calgary and Edmonton, but places like Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Regina, Lethbridge, Surrey, Richmond and others.

    If we can get half the support that Junior A hockey teams have, a 16 team league could be successful, and maybe there are options to do like soccer and compete in a Concacaf event with international clubs in North and South America.

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    Most major sports franchise depend on corporate sales, via season tickets or luxury boxes, for a lot of their support. They don't make it by way of walk-ins buying onseys and twoseys. A place like Ottawa doesn't have that kind of corporate presence.

    I agree that the NBL could reasonably expand. Ontario is where the population is. Three more teams in Ontario would go a long way towards strengthening the league. I think it would be great if there was an "at home" option for Canadian talent to get playing time and experience.

    I am looking forward to the growth of the league and agree it seems to be managed correctly. I intend to take in a lot of games this season.

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