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Thread: Jose Calderon + Olympics = Increased Asset Value

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Shantz wrote: View Post
    I find it interesting how a good portion of this thread was that a good olympics from Calderon would not change anyone's NBA perspective...where as I'm sure there are some people who are looking at Yi with different eyes after his performance against Spain.

    Calderon's worth will not be altered drastically, but to see a fit within a different system could renew a teams interest. I'm not saying it will be so, but simply that a successful Olympics will be part of the picture of how he is viewed.
    That's because there is a big difference between the two players. Calderon is what he is, everyone knows what he can and cannot. Now, if Calderon suddenly would start putting up 20+ points a game, I'd change my view. But that won't happen because we know what he is, and he will play accordingly; everybody knows he's solid in international play and that's what he'll show, nothing more, nothing less. Yi Jianlian on the other hand, is a dissapointing lottery selection. If he can show on an international stage that he can compete against top nba opponents (an effective 30 points against Spain today) that might change his stock a bit and help him to get more minutes next year. But it's also very well possible that this doesn't change the opinion of gm's at all because they know more about him than I do.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote theycallmeZZ wrote: View Post
    Crap I missed it

    Boxscore and highlights?
    All boxscores are here http://www.london2012.com/basketball/; don't know where to find highlights.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    He barely played?
    sorry, i meant in general so far. in the game against the americans he did very well.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    All boxscores are here http://www.london2012.com/basketball/; don't know where to find highlights.
    Looks like a solid .. but nothing overly special 12 and 3 for Jose ..

    As to the trade rumours .. can we please stop talking about Jose for [insert all-star/borderline all star player]? We will get a late first rounder or 2nd rounder (the same thing we could have got at best if we traded him last year) if we are lucky. We just about amnestied him.

    If we get an AI or RG in a trade, it wont be because Jose impresses someone in the olympics .. it will be because of what else we include in the deal (think DD, young assets or picks)

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Looks like a solid .. but nothing overly special 12 and 3 for Jose ..

    As to the trade rumours .. can we please stop talking about Jose for [insert all-star/borderline all star player]? We will get a late first rounder or 2nd rounder (the same thing we could have got at best if we traded him last year) if we are lucky. We just about amnestied him.

    If we get an AI or RG in a trade, it wont be because Jose impresses someone in the olympics .. it will be because of what else we include in the deal (think DD, young assets or picks)
    Maybe I am wrong but any trade of AI or Gay is likely to be made from a financial perspective as well, in my opinion. New trade and free agent rules coming in next summer as part of the CBA and new tax rates for '13-14. Hopefully the Raps can take advantage in a manner similar to Joe Johnson to Brooklyn - not the idea of taking on such a horrible contract but the idea of getting a less than desirable contract for scraps. Much of the competition from other teams for upper tier wings has dried up with Golden State drafting Barnes and Minnesota signing AK47 (of course Cleveland remains an adversary).

    Calderon is a big expiring contract and DeRozan could also be considered an expiring contract.
    Ed Davis could play solid and become a desirable commodity given his rookie contract.
    The only draft picks the Raps can deal are 2nd round picks - their own '13 and '14 and SAC's '14.

  6. #46
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    IMO there is just too much variability to trade calderon before the trade deadline next season.

    1. Can lowry even effectively run this group? probably, but unless an enticing offer was put on the table it would be nice to have jose as a security blanket if lowry doesn't make the players around him better.

    2.Do we need a SF like iguodala? or is derozan effective?

    3. Is terrence ross a bust/worth investing time in? iff ross is a bust, is derozan suitable to keep playing SG?

    4. Does bargnani avoid injury? and consistenly play both sides of the ball? does ed davis become good enough to replace bargnani?


    To answer those questions and evaluate the talent/improvent in the squad is going to take some time. We don't know yet if we need to pursue iguodala/gay and we don't know whether we need calderon more than we think.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Maybe I am wrong but any trade of AI or Gay is likely to be made from a financial perspective as well, in my opinion. New trade and free agent rules coming in next summer as part of the CBA and new tax rates for '13-14. Hopefully the Raps can take advantage in a manner similar to Joe Johnson to Brooklyn - not the idea of taking on such a horrible contract but the idea of getting a less than desirable contract for scraps. Much of the competition from other teams for upper tier wings has dried up with Golden State drafting Barnes and Minnesota signing AK47 (of course Cleveland remains an adversary).

    Calderon is a big expiring contract and DeRozan could also be considered an expiring contract.
    Ed Davis could play solid and become a desirable commodity given his rookie contract.
    The only draft picks the Raps can deal are 2nd round picks - their own '13 and '14 and SAC's '14.
    Totally agree .. if a team moves AI or Gay, clearly its going to be financially motivated first and foremost. My point was that beyond that (ie if you assume they get over the "we are going to downgrade our team, but its worth it to save a lot of money longterm"), it wont be that they look at a guy like Jose and say "we need to do this because Jose is playing well at the Olympics and we think hes the guy to run our team (or even be our backup that plays a lot of minutes)" .. it will be because they have decided to go in a different direction and thus will value Jose's contract, yes, but also whatever young assets we can give them .. as you note, we dont have much in the way of picks .. so Im thinking DD, Ed plus a pick is the type of thing it will take .. again solidifying the point that JC's play is pretty far down the list of reason's why this type of deal may or may not happen ..

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Totally agree .. if a team moves AI or Gay, clearly its going to be financially motivated first and foremost. My point was that beyond that (ie if you assume they get over the "we are going to downgrade our team, but its worth it to save a lot of money longterm"), it wont be that they look at a guy like Jose and say "we need to do this because Jose is playing well at the Olympics and we think hes the guy to run our team (or even be our backup that plays a lot of minutes)" .. it will be because they have decided to go in a different direction and thus will value Jose's contract, yes, but also whatever young assets we can give them .. as you note, we dont have much in the way of picks .. so Im thinking DD, Ed plus a pick is the type of thing it will take .. again solidifying the point that JC's play is pretty far down the list of reason's why this type of deal may or may not happen ..
    +1

    Regarding the bold section I would only add the pill might be easier to swallow if the team was under performing or just bad. No one likes to spend top dollar for a loser.

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Wouldn't another pg need to be involved in a trade of JC? I hate the idea of JL3 being our primary back up.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    What would be the implications if the Raptors keep Jose, let his contract expire and sign him to a much cheaper contract?

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    What would be the implications if the Raptors keep Jose, let his contract expire and sign him to a much cheaper contract?
    Less cap space next summer as he would either: a) have a huge cap hold or b) create less cap space with whatever new contract was.

    It would be nice if they could trade him and use the MLE to sign him next summer - assuming the contract coming back in the trade is desirable and caps the Raps out.

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Less cap space next summer as he would either: a) have a huge cap hold or b) create less cap space with whatever new contract was.

    It would be nice if they could trade him and use the MLE to sign him next summer - assuming the contract coming back in the trade is desirable and caps the Raps out.
    Thanks for the info.

    Could it also be that they havent traded him because Jose might be considering going back to Europe and playing for a European team and get him closer to home? Does his family live in the north america?

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    +1

    Regarding the bold section I would only add the pill might be easier to swallow if the team was under performing or just bad. No one likes to spend top dollar for a loser.
    Agreed .. which is more likely in Philly from my perspective (barring significant injury to probably both of Gasol and Randolph .. since Memphis showed a pretty decent ability to weather injuries to Zach last year).

  14. #54
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Looks like a solid .. but nothing overly special 12 and 3 for Jose ..

    As to the trade rumours .. can we please stop talking about Jose for [insert all-star/borderline all star player]? We will get a late first rounder or 2nd rounder (the same thing we could have got at best if we traded him last year) if we are lucky. We just about amnestied him.

    If we get an AI or RG in a trade, it wont be because Jose impresses someone in the olympics .. it will be because of what else we include in the deal (think DD, young assets or picks)
    I think we should hold onto Jose until the trade deadline, when his value would be highest - definitely higher than last year because:

    1. He would only cost the acquring team less than 1/2 year of salary to clear $10M of salary cap. Not 1.5yrs of salary, like last season. Not a small number, in terms of salary paid or cap flexibility.
    2. As people pointed out, the CBA changes make it even tougher to preserve trade/cap flexibility going forward (e.g. S&Ts)
    3. The Jose amnesty situation was only considered in the context of the going-all-in for Nash, and even so, that would have been a last resort.
    4. Inevitably there will be injuries and playoff bound teams are always looking to shore up at the trade deadline, especially at PG. Jose would be an awesome rent-a-player for the stretch run and playoffs. Way better than, say, Derrick Fisher for OKC last year.
    5. This year's draft is supposedly weaker than last year, which means a late first rounder this year should be equal to a mid-first rounder next year, or something like that.
    6. The Knicks always implode and make a desperation trade out of overreaction. Jose has some similarities to Nash, and would fit perfectly onto that roster.

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    Quote 10 000 Hours wrote: View Post
    I would think that is playing a role for sure. I know I wouldn't want Calderon until after the Olympics are finished. You get to see him playing with good players (sorry Raptors) and make sure he's healthy. Seems like a prudent business move to me.
    Good point. Also after last Olympics, we needed Jose to play major minutes. Not the case this time.
    WRT injury -I don't see a problem if he is tired after the Olympics. He won't need to play a lot anyways.
    In a dream scenario Jose in final vs US makes Spain look good & take it to the wire. Jose's value skyrockets.
    IMO DoNDaDDa makes some excellent point. Lets look at what Jose does positive. He is likely to lead a very good Spanish national team to a medal. In addition, this year he will be a backup, meaning facing (playing D) against second stringers where his D won't be as nearly as bad & he can shine more on offence (pick & roll with Amir & Val...).
    I don't see Bulls as a good fit currently. NO & Sac maybe. I don't see Jimmer as a PG. IMO he might be a slightly more effective JJ Redick off the bench.
    T Wolves -I am not sure what they have. There does not seem to be a long term plan/commitment.
    In the end, I don't think Raps have to do anything with Jose now. Maybe in Feb, IFF a good team gets an injury to its starter. Worse case scenario, we have an expiring contract next year.

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic Starter theycallmeZZ's Avatar
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    Watching the AUS-ESP game and while they were showing some closeups, I saw that Jose has some stitches on his eye.


    Eye injury from a few months ago still bothering him?

  17. #57
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    4 n 3 for Jose .. not exactly lightin things up here ..

  18. #58
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    theres more ball movement in fiba ball, its rare for players to have gaudy assist numbers.
    @jerboat

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    theres more ball movement in fiba ball, its rare for players to have gaudy assist numbers.
    Not sure about that .. two guys had 9 and 7 for lithuania today .. Deng has 8 through 33 mins .. when you consider the 40 minute game .. these numbers seem pretty in line with the NBA, where you only see the odd double digit assist game (in 48 mins)

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