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Thread: So, maybe Colangelo was right?

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    Default So, maybe Colangelo was right?

    After reading some recent updates on HoopsHype, it appears there is almost zero interest for FA Leandro Barbosa. I remember much discussion when he was traded as to whether BC got "enough" for him, and could he have done better. At this point in time, it seems that perhaps getting a second round pick was in fact fair value and/or the best that was available - knowing that part of the value was also in the cap room that was cleared. Thoughts?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    I already replied in another thread that is is far easier to criticize a GM than be one. When there are no dance partners, you just stand on the sidelines and spin your wheels. It doesn't mean you don't know how to dance.

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    Hold onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, you've been a member since December of 2011 and this is your first post? Don't be shy!

    On topic: Yeah, and stuff

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Jon_Wade's Avatar
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    Considering the circumstances I would say that we did end up getting something out of it because we got a higher draft pick by trading him(I think he's good enough to pull a few more wins for us based on nights where he goes off) however if you don't look at the circumstances and just look at the trade itself it isn't all that great because at least to me Barbosa>jj and jj and jj was traded for a pick very likely to be higher than the other one.
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    I don't get how a team like the Bobcats can't use Barbosa. Like zero interest? He didn't seem like a Rasual Butler to me. Maybe he's asking for a long term contract and no one wants to bite.
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    Quote Tesla wrote: View Post
    Hold onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, you've been a member since December of 2011 and this is your first post? Don't be shy!

    On topic: Yeah, and stuff
    Thanks (I think!). I believe I've replied to some posts in the past, but yes, this is the first that I've initiated.

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    Quote Jon_Wade wrote: View Post
    Considering the circumstances I would say that we did end up getting something out of it because we got a higher draft pick by trading him(I think he's good enough to pull a few more wins for us based on nights where he goes off) however if you don't look at the circumstances and just look at the trade itself it isn't all that great because at least to me Barbosa>jj and jj and jj was traded for a pick very likely to be higher than the other one.
    I don't understand your qualifier of "if you don't look at the circumstances". The point of my post is that circumstances are entirely the point (what arguably was available at the time), reviewed with the benefit of time passed. I'd also be willing to debate that JJ > Barbosa for various reasons, the most obvious being age/potential.
    Last edited by Kate C; Thu Aug 2nd, 2012 at 12:19 AM.

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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    I don't get how a team like the Bobcats can't use Barbosa. Like zero interest? He didn't seem like a Rasual Butler to me. Maybe he's asking for a long term contract and no one wants to bite.
    That's exactly what it is, from what I read, a couple days ago.
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    Quote GameBreaker wrote: View Post
    That's exactly what it is, from what I read, a couple days ago.


    Yup.

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    RT @hecrey: Any news on Leandro Barbosa? Any interest from Lakers? ---> Lakers are finished spending and LB wants a multi-year deal.

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    Barbosa wants long term deal and that's all. If anyone could sign him for 1-2 year deal, he wouldn't be FA at this moment
    (Sorry for poor English )

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    Quote Kate C wrote: View Post
    After reading some recent updates on HoopsHype, it appears there is almost zero interest for FA Leandro Barbosa. I remember much discussion when he was traded as to whether BC got "enough" for him, and could he have done better. At this point in time, it seems that perhaps getting a second round pick was in fact fair value and/or the best that was available - knowing that part of the value was also in the cap room that was cleared. Thoughts?
    I wouldn't say for sure the best value available. I think Colangelo probably went with the best fit for his plan and his plan was to get an asset while not taking back cap.

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    It's not that we could have gotten more, it's that he was our only talented, healthy player on the offensive end. He was the only guy on the squad that was worth spending a buck or two to watch. He was something that we needed to remain something that slightly resembled an entertaining, competitive team.

    So shipping him off and getting zero in return was frustrating as a fan. I was basically the Raps saying, "If you bought tickets to any of our remaining games, then fuck you."

    The move happened too late in the year to get anything decent back, too late to be part of any tanking effort (which I am staunchly against), and too late to really save that much dough. So it was reported that BC was just making nice with LB and his agent; doing right by his guy, if you will. That's one of the reasons I say that every agent and NBA power broker has BC in his pocket. I imagine a scenario where there's some agents convention, a few of the guys stay up late, get into the sauce and start telling stories about how they spin certain GM's like a top... and our red-headed clown is the centerpiece of conversation.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    It's not that we could have gotten more, it's that he was our only talented, healthy player on the offensive end. He was the only guy on the squad that was worth spending a buck or two to watch. He was something that we needed to remain something that slightly resembled an entertaining, competitive team.

    So shipping him off and getting zero in return was frustrating as a fan. I was basically the Raps saying, "If you bought tickets to any of our remaining games, then fuck you."

    The move happened too late in the year to get anything decent back, too late to be part of any tanking effort (which I am staunchly against), and too late to really save that much dough. So it was reported that BC was just making nice with LB and his agent; doing right by his guy, if you will. That's one of the reasons I say that every agent and NBA power broker has BC in his pocket. I imagine a scenario where there's some agents convention, a few of the guys stay up late, get into the sauce and start telling stories about how they spin certain GM's like a top... and our red-headed clown is the centerpiece of conversation.
    I disagree. On a good team, where Barbosa can get 12-15 minutes as a sparkplug off the bench, he would be a tremendous asset. However, he's too much of a black-hole when he plays extended minutes. Frankly, his act was wearing thin on me and I'd much rather see his playing time going to the younger players, to both evaluate them and allow them to develop (ie: Bayless, Forbes and even Anderson). He wasn't in the Raptors long-term future plans and the season was lost, so there was no point feeding him heavy minutes.

    The Raptors got a 2nd round pick and a $7.6M TPE in return. Both of those are great assets on the surface. The fact that the TPE wasn't used and that the #56 pick wound up being used to draft a player who'll likely never play in the NBA, shouldn't diminish the trade itself. Had the 2nd round pick been included as 'sweetener' in a trade and/or the TPE been used to pickup a solid rotation player, then suddenly the trade would look like sheer genius... subsequent moves (or lack thereof) are not a fair way to evaluate the move in question.

    I was quite happy with the trade and have full confidence that BC made the best move possible, given the requirements he had mandated: acquire additional draft pick(s) and take no committed salary back.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Aug 2nd, 2012 at 11:18 AM.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    subsequent moves (or lack thereof) are not a fair way to evaluate the move in question.
    I'm pretty meh, about he barbosa trade, i can't imagine Coangelo turning down a better offer for barbosa just because he wants to do something stupid. Trades happen in a free market, a player is only worth what you can get for him.

    That said, I would disagree with the above statement. Trades aren't made in a vacuum, I'm sure every GM thinks about how their trade fits into their long term goals, I'm sure everyone would agree that the trade was made in order to get financial flexibility. In that regard the trade is successful. If Coangelo had gotten more out of the TPE or picked up a rotation player then it is a potentially a better trade because it demonstrates that the GM had a multi-move plan AND was able to carry it out.

    Likewise, had Coangelo used the TPE to pick up a useless player on a bad contract that hindered our financial flexibility than the trade is a bad one, because the GM obviously has effed his plan up.

    My personal opinion is that Coangelo made the trade with a plan in mind and is continuing with the implementation of that plan. He may have gotten more, but I don't think it was a bad trade, especially when we consider that we brought on Barbosa in order to get rid of Turk.

    Like I said at the start of this post, meh.
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I disagree. On a good team, where Barbosa can get 12-15 minutes as a sparkplug off the bench, he would be a tremendous asset. However, he's too much of a black-hole when he plays extended minutes. Frankly, his act was wearing thin on me and I'd much rather see his playing time going to the younger players, to both evaluate them and allow them to develop (ie: Bayless, Forbes and even Anderson). He wasn't in the Raptors long-term future plans and the season was lost, so there was no point feeding him heavy minutes.

    The Raptors got a 2nd round pick and a $7.6M TPE in return. Both of those are great assets on the surface. The fact that the TPE wasn't used and that the #56 pick wound up being used to draft a player who'll likely never play in the NBA, shouldn't diminish the trade itself. Had the 2nd round pick been included as 'sweetener' in a trade and/or the TPE been used to pickup a solid rotation player, then suddenly the trade would look like sheer genius... subsequent moves (or lack thereof) are not a fair way to evaluate the move in question.

    I was quite happy with the trade and have full confidence that BC made the best move possible, given the requirements he had mandated: acquire additional draft pick(s) and take no committed salary back.
    Well duh

    I guess the perception is that Barbosa had more worth than a pick which will never see minutes on the court and the TPE which will likely not be used. Essentially he was given away for nothing. I'm not mad at BC as you have outlined there are a lot of positives to clearing up minutes he would have occupied and I can understand why fans would be upset. Leandro was a fierce competitor and likeable player.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Katman's Avatar
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    He wasn't given up for nothing that is misleading, we got cap space in return which was used to facilitate a trade or pick up a RFA. Which netted us Lowry or Fields take your pick. The TPE could have been used on draft day to pick up Lowry IF a suitable deal was available.

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    Lakers showing interest in Barbosa. Link

    Will this put to rest the Barbosa - Nash's wife rumors... please!?

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    Quote The Coach wrote: View Post
    Lakers showing interest in Barbosa. Link

    Will this put to rest the Barbosa - Nash's wife rumors... please!?
    Those rumors were as spurious as they come. The last time Nash and the Suns came thru TO they both had a warm embrace. Besides does Matteo Nash look like Leandro may have been his dad?


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    Raptors Republic Rookie Garbo's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    He may have gotten more, but I don't think it was a bad trade, especially when we consider that we brought on Barbosa in order to get rid of Turk.
    .. Turk representing the MONSTER of a contract that Bryco created himself. So he made a "meh" trade after making a "wow" trade to try and solve his "what was I thinking?" signing.

    I do like Bryan, but his track record here is a little patchy.

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    Quote Garbo wrote: View Post
    .. Turk representing the MONSTER of a contract that Bryco created himself. So he made a "meh" trade after making a "wow" trade to try and solve his "what was I thinking?" signing.

    I do like Bryan, but his track record here is a little patchy.
    If Tomislav Zubcic (the #56 pick acquired in the Barbosa deal) doesn't amount to anything, it will finally bring the end to a long line of bad moves, which all started with a bad draft pick...

    2005 - Charlie Villanueva drafted 8th overall by Toronto (infamously ahead of Granger, who went at #17, right after Joey Graham at #16)

    2006 - Charlie Villanueva traded for TJ Ford

    2008 - TJ Ford (along with Rasho Nesterovic, Maceo Baston and Roy Hibbert, who Toronto drafted for Indy at #17) traded for Jermaine O'Neal (and the #41 pick, Nathan Jawai)

    2009 - Jermaine O'Neal (along with Jamario Moon) traded for Shawn Marion (along with Marcus Banks)

    2009 - Shawn Marion (along with Kris Humphries and Nathan Jawai) traded for Hedo Turkoglu (along with Antoine Wright and Devean George)

    2010 - Hedo Turkoglu traded for Leandro Barbosa (along with Dwayne Jones)

    2012 - Leandro Barbosa traded for #56 pick (Zubcic)



    I'm curious what the over/under would be for the number of curses and/or shots needed to get through that painful list of past transactions! lol How much easier would the past 7 seasons have been for Raptors fans had they just drafted Granger instead of Villanueva... all these moves could have been avoided and we'd actually have a legitimate starting SF! hahaha
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Aug 2nd, 2012 at 05:51 PM.

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