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Thread: According to Slam: Raptors among five teams to make a huge jump

  1. #61
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Oh Leo or Jack said that? well then it must be true.
    You must seem to have something against me. Seems like everything I say, you take like I've offended you in the past...

    Oh well, bully me over the internet all you want lol, won't change what I say.

  2. #62
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    35-47 would not surprise me
    44-38 would not surprise me
    I totally agree with this. Either of the records, depending on how the conference shows out (history's past, being weak and less depth to the West), these two records could give a playoff spot.

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Did you read my original post? And if you did (and I mean this sincerely and respectfully), did you read it all? I am guilty of having read something wrong, misinterpreted, or skipped something altogether. Here is my original post:



    Considering how horrible Bargnani played in 13-15 of his 31 games last year and contributing 'just' -0.9W while having contributed -6.4W in '10-11, him going positive is not out of the question with the assumption he plays more like the other 16-18 games.

    A lot of this is just fun on my part with the WP. Games are played on the court, not calculators. And I very much agree with the bold in your post.
    Thats the halarious thing about WP (or I guess about the naming of "wins produced") .. which ironicly has very little to do with whether or not a player actually "produces wins" for his team (especially with guys like K love and reggie evans finishing so high on the list). It should be called "possesions produced" or possesions / point effiency or something like that .. because it has very little correlation with actual wins.

    So .. to look at someone like AB that is a -6 and suggest that means that his team would have won six more games without him is non-sensical .. or that Humphries added 8 wins to the Nets last year .. I dont think so.

    I like that you have fun with it Matt .. but way to many people that this stat way too seriously ..

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Rookie Sheptor's Avatar
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    Quote mcsemcp73 wrote: View Post
    Raptors will go 44-38

    Atlanta (rebuilding), Orlando( rebuilding with or without D, Boston ( to old even with Rondo), New York (Melo) and
    Chicago (without DR need a bench)

    1)Miami
    2)New Jersey
    3)Indiana
    4)Philadelphia
    5)Milwaukee
    6)Toronto
    7) Washington
    8) Chicago (maybe)

    You have Boston out of the Playoffs? Washington and Milwaukee in? Either could but both is unlikely...look for something like this

    1) Miami
    2) Indiana
    3) Brooklyn
    4) Boston
    5) New York
    6) Chicago
    7) Toronto
    8) Anybody

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Rookie knowledgep's Avatar
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    I think it'll all come down to how they start the season. I believe our first 7 games are against tough teams. We go +.500 in the first 10 games we make the playoffs. We don't, we will be fighting to crack .500 ball all season.

    39-43

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Rookie knowledgep's Avatar
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    Quote Sheptor wrote: View Post
    You have Boston out of the Playoffs?
    Washington and Milwaukee in? Either could but both is unlikely...look for something like this

    1) Miami
    2) Indiana
    3) Brooklyn
    4) Boston
    5) New York
    6) Chicago
    7) Toronto
    8) Anybody
    Partially agree, I don't think Chicago makes it.

  7. #67
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote knowledgep wrote: View Post
    Partially agree, I don't think Chicago makes it.
    Chicago was an above average team without D-Rose.. Than again, they lost two very good back-ups in Lucas III, and Watson. No Asik either.

  8. #68
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Had Bargnani not been hurt last season you could reasonably argue that the Raptors could have been in the hunt for the 8th seed. This season I feel they have a really good chance at getting in. They won't need a .500 record for 8th seed.

  9. #69
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Had Bargnani not been hurt last season you could reasonably argue that the Raptors could have been in the hunt for the 8th seed. This season I feel they have a really good chance at getting in. They won't need a .500 record for 8th seed.
    +1

  10. #70
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    The raptors aren't making the playoffs. They're still lacking some things, i feel anyways. There are always injuries and regressions. Jose had a career year last year, but, he's not the starter anymore and is on the trade block.
    There is one difference right there. Alot of little things went right last year that seem flukey.

  11. #71
    Raptors Republic Starter theycallmeZZ's Avatar
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    Going back to negativity that you showed here last season?

  12. #72
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    The raptors aren't making the playoffs. They're still lacking some things, i feel anyways. There are always injuries and regressions. Jose had a career year last year, but, he's not the starter anymore and is on the trade block.
    There is one difference right there. Alot of little things went right last year that seem flukey.
    No we're makin the playoffs!!!!

  13. #73
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    No we're makin the playoffs!!!!
    +1

    we are in this year in the east.

  14. #74
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    I think the playoffs is a possibility, and I see the bottom for us as, BARELY missing that 8th spot. Depending on how all the other teams play out and with their new additions, Toronto may very well be looking at a first round exit. Which I would not be unhappy with quite frankly. Any step towards the playoffs and earning recognition is the best for this team as they grow.

    This team is very capable of being an above .500 team, but also capable of barely missing the playoffs like 2010.

  15. #75
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    We'll be 2nd in the atlantic behind the C's

  16. #76
    Raptors Republic Starter Quirk's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Did you read my original post?
    Sure, and I wasn't trying to be critical of it, in fact I think my view is similar to yours. I also look at WP a lot, one reason is that the WP community provides so much analysis and nice tools like nerdnumbers and thenbageek, but I don't take the numbers as gospel. In fact I believe they produce a lot of outliers since they have no effiieny stats for rebounding, and thus overvalue players that get a lot of rebounds and take few shots. Two years ago we had two examples of WP's rediculousness at it's extremes with Reggie Evans and Andrea Bargnani.

    My only real point was that we are deep at PF, and so I don't see Bargnani's health and/or performance as being critical to our season. For example, WP does rate both Davis and Johnson as being more productive than Bargnani even during his 13 game tour de force. So, even if WP is undervalueing Bargnani, in the case that he was injured, I'd be OK running with Johnson/Davis/Kleiza at the 4.

    I also think Bargnani's earlier -6+ WP is pretty silly, it just goes to show that he is not the kind of player that WP rates well, largely because of the lack of any efficiancy statistics for rebounding, it can't isolate the rebounds that where simply scooped up by his team mates, like Evans. It's well know that having a great individual rebounder on your team does not necessarily make a huge impact on team rebounds.

    To me, the key to the season is how much adding Lowry, Fields, JV and Ross will contribute to a Casey defense. If these players and another year of DC couching can help Toronto become a defensive powerhouse, that will make more of a difference than what happens at the PF position, IMO.

    If I had to chose one player as the key, I would say Fields, with Lowry a close second only because he is displacing Jose, who is already a great player. I doubt Lowry will individually give us more production than Jose would have, however, his suitability for a Casey team will have a bigger overall team influence.
    Last edited by Quirk; Mon Aug 6th, 2012 at 07:41 PM.

  17. #77
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    You must seem to have something against me. Seems like everything I say, you take like I've offended you in the past...

    Oh well, bully me over the internet all you want lol, won't change what I say.
    I don't even look at who posts stuff I just reply how I reply. Don't take it as bullying, take it as a completely different opinion.

  18. #78
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    We'll be 2nd in the atlantic behind the C's
    The Atlantic Division will be the strongest division in the East next year. Realistically, I see Toronto 3rd over New York and Philadelphia.

  19. #79
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Mess wrote: View Post
    That's only 5 wins over last year's win % (which extrapolated to 82 games would be 28 wins).

    With the Raptors (hopefully) not tanking again at the end of the season by auditioning D league players, that might cover those 5 games on it's own.

    And if you set aside individual player evaluations, a full training camp will be a big positive too.
    Am I in the minority thinking the raptors did not tank last year? I think that might be an undeserved compliment. We beat some good teams down the stretch. Half our team was (mostly legitimately) injured. We weren't good enough to tank. That was us. Don't count on a boost from that next year.

  20. #80
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    Am I in the minority thinking the raptors did not tank last year? I think that might be an undeserved compliment. We beat some good teams down the stretch. Half our team was (mostly legitimately) injured. We weren't good enough to tank. That was us. Don't count on a boost from that next year.
    The Raptors held out Jose and Andrea for extended periods of time when they could have played. They made no attempt to improve their roster from the offseason on (unless ofcourse one believed Rasual Butler, Jamaal Magloire or Carter were attempts at improving). They traded a useful player (Barbossa) for a 2nd round pick. They scoured the d-league to fill roster spots and actually bothered to give Alabi minutes. Colangelo's entire talking point last season was cap flexibility.

    While I don't think the players themselves under Casey did anything close to tanking, I think the Colangelo and management clearly attempted to.

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