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Thread: Raptor PG Controversy: Part 3

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Raptor PG Controversy: Part 3

    Part 1: TJ vs. Calderon
    Part 2: Jack vs. Calderon

    And now.....

    Part 3: Lowry vs. Calderon


    Alex Kennedy at HoopsWorld.com addresses the 'controversy':

    Point Guard Controversy in Toronto?

    When the Toronto Raptors traded for Kyle Lowry last month, Jose Calderon seemed to be the odd man out. However, the Raptors decided not to amnesty Calderon prior to the July 18 deadline and, two weeks later, they still haven’t traded the veteran point guard.

    After talking to Raptors head coach Dwane Casey and general manager Bryan Colangelo recently in Las Vegas, it seems the team is prepared to enter the season with both Lowry and Calderon on the roster. They’ll compete for the starting job in training camp and while Casey insists the team doesn’t have a point guard controversy, this will be one of the more interesting position battles to watch in October.

    “We don’t have a controversy,” Casey said of the competition between Lowry and Calderon. “To be a playoff team, you have to have multiple players at multiple positions. I know Jose. If he’s concerned about having someone else there to push him and having another point guard there to share time with him, I’d be shocked. He’s not a selfish player. We need multiple players at every position. We don’t have a ‘quarterback controversy.’ We’ll have a point guard out there and we’ll have a back-up. You need two quality point guards to make the playoffs.”

    Colangelo, on the other hand, acknowledged a point guard controversy, but downplayed it and the effect it would have on the team.

    “If you have two starting caliber players, there’s always going to be a controversy,” Colangelo said. “I guess what Dwane is saying is that the outside world makes more of it than we do internally. We’re going to let the two players come in and compete and ultimately it’ll be Coach’s decision who starts and who comes off of the bench. We could make arguments on both sides right now, on paper.”

    Colangelo admitted that Calderon wasn’t thrilled when he found out that the Raptors had acquired Lowry from the Houston Rockets. Shortly after the Lowry deal was finalized, the Raptors began “working together” with Calderon and his agent Mark Bartelstein to find a trade for the point guard, according to reports. While Toronto hasn’t pulled the trigger on a deal yet, Colangelo didn’t rule out the possibility of a trade going forward.

    “If a trade can be worked out, we’ll look at it,” Colangelo said. “That’s always the case. If there’s a trade that’s going to make our team better, we’re going to look at it.”

    If a trade can’t be worked out, Calderon may have to enter the season as the Raptors’ sixth man. Lowry is expecting to be the starter in Toronto and he recently met with Casey during the Las Vegas Summer League to discuss the team’s playbook and personnel.

    “If Jose were to come off of the bench, he would bring great experience and leadership to the young core of players that would be out there with him,” Colangelo said. “He has nice chemistry with Amir Johnson, especially on the high screen-and-rolls. We’ll see how it all plays out.”

    The Raptors may enter the season with Lowry and Calderon on the roster and have them compete for the starting job in training camp. At the end of the day, Toronto has two talented point guards who have each proven that they can start in this league. That’s a good problem to have.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-pie...celtics-moves/

    Tim Chisholm's take:

    However, it's time for the Raptors to show Calderon some respect and invite him back to the organization with open arms this fall. As much as they are no doubt loathe to admit, they need him. They have precious few players who perform with his level of consistency and effectiveness, and with a second-unit replete with rookies and youngsters still trying to find their NBA footing, they need a guard like Calderon to steady their play and lead them while they're out on the court. The club has chosen to build a rotation with seven players that are 26-or-under, and if you are going to go THAT young and still hope to compete you need veterans that can play consistently productive minutes around them. Calderon not only brings consistent productivity but he brings familiarity with much of that playing rotation and has a relationship with his coach that is stronger than most anyone expected heading into last season.

    As for Calderon, he'd do well to welcome a return to Toronto, as well. While he has the skills to be a starting guard in the NBA, there aren't many places where he would actually be one. He happens to be playing in one of the most point guard-rich eras in NBA history. Ten teams, or one-third of the league, can reasonably claim to have an All-Star caliber point guard starting for their club, while several others (like Philadelphia, Atlanta, Portland, Washington, Denver, Phoenix and Houston) can claim to have emerging young talents that they'd start over Calderon even if he was on their club. Maybe he could supplant Darren Collison in Dallas or Austin Rivers in New Orleans, but even then the best you can say is 'maybe'. Despite his skills, circumstances have all but dictated that Calderon is a reserve guard given the way today's NBA landscape is shaped. While that landscape is ever-shifting, for now he'd be wise to accept a reserve role with the Raptors, post his highly efficient numbers off of the bench, and hope to play his way into a contract extension with the only NBA club he's ever known.

    The fact is that most of Calderon's (and his agent's) posturing right now revolves around the fact that they want to get him to a place where he can maximize his value in anticipation of free agency next summer. However, as Ramon Sessions, D.J. Augustin and Ray Felton discovered this summer, it's a buyers market when it comes to point guards of his caliber. Plus, next summer Calderon will be competing with Augustin, Jack, Devin Harris, Mo Williams, Beno Udrih and restricted free agents Collison, Brandon Jennings, Jrue Holiday and Stephen Curry for contracts. It doesn't really matter where Calderon plays this season, he's simply selling an asset that is in rich supply. He'll be a 32-year-old when the '13-'14 season starts and the days of him landing lucrative long-term money are over. Does he really believe that being a salary-cap-motivated rental is going to put him in a better place as a free agent next summer?

    He offers real value to a club like Toronto. Watching him with play with Spain this summer is a testament to that. He's doing the sort of things that Toronto will need someone to be able to do if they are hoping to turn the corner as an organization, and rewarding players like Calderon - rather than spurning them - should be a organizational priority. Likewise for Calderon, proving his worth to Toronto is probably his best bet for a decent contract next summer. Play out the season, secure a modest two or three year deal next summer and maintain the status quo for a while longer. It may not be either side's idea of a perfect ending, but both need each other more than they want to admit.


    http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/tim_chisholm/?id=402245

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Personally, I'd love to see it work out whereby the Raps obtain the elusive star wing via trade thereby maintaining the MLE to resign Jose using it. This trade could be done before trade deadline, draft night, or at the start of free agency in 2013.

    The only way the scenario of signing Jose to the MLE does not work is if the Raptors use their cap space to sign a RFA to an offer sheet or if they sign an UFA.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Jose's health will be an issue in my opinion, that this so-called "controversy" will not matter in the end. I predict that Calderon will miss as least 20 games this coming season.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Starter theycallmeZZ's Avatar
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    I don't understand why people are saying he's injury prone. Sure he had a small injury at the beginning of the season iirc but you can't say someone is injury prone when they get socked in the eye twice by another team...
    TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Personally, I'd love to see it work out whereby the Raps obtain the elusive star wing via trade thereby maintaining the MLE to resign Jose using it. This trade could be done before trade deadline, draft night, or at the start of free agency in 2013.

    The only way the scenario of signing Jose to the MLE does not work is if the Raptors use their cap space to sign a RFA to an offer sheet or if they sign an UFA.
    This would be ideal. I would really love to keep Jose, and I wanna see him retire a Raptor. To me, the guy gives his all when he's on the court and has always been a true gentleman and professional, as well as an above average PG. Getting the star wing would trump Jose staying though, if it were to come to that.

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    What everyone keeps forgetting is that this is a contract year for calderon, so by keeping him (if there are no good trades available) you have a stronger team - not to mention and very strong bench. So the controversy is all with Calderon and his agent because if he stays in Toronto he has to play well otherwise he wont be getting paid in the future. So unless you are trading him for a clear cut starter or a great draft pick, keeping him is in the best interest of the team.

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    Good teams have players that execute within clearly defined roles. Calderone's role as the starter for this team has come and gone. To let him think he has a chance to compete for that isn't fair to him. JL3rd can backup KL. Just for chemistry Jose should be moved as soon as possible.

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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Good teams have players that execute within clearly defined roles. Calderone's role as the starter for this team has come and gone. To let him think he has a chance to compete for that isn't fair to him. JL3rd can backup KL. Just for chemistry Jose should be moved as soon as possible.
    I agree. Unclear roles can lead to sub-par play from the players. As much as I'd like to see Jose in Toronto for the rest of his career, I'm not so sure it will work out

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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Good teams have players that execute within clearly defined roles. Calderone's role as the starter for this team has come and gone. To let him think he has a chance to compete for that isn't fair to him. JL3rd can backup KL. Just for chemistry Jose should be moved as soon as possible.
    i agree with your assessment of the roles needing to be clearly defined. I expect that if Jose is relegated to the back up role, he will do it with as much effort and passion that he has always demonstrated here in the past. I don't believe that there will be any chemistry issues once the rotation is solid. Jose is going to be a 2nd point guard on any decent team now, so I believe that his role will be bigger and more important on the Raptors than on other teams. He has always been great helping youth develop and I think once he accepts that this is his role he will excel at it.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Mess's Avatar
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    Not sure why Jose competing for minutes this season, as opposed to almost every other season, would suddenly ruin the chemistry of the Raptors. I think his role this year is as clear as it was last year, only it's being a backup rather than a starter.

    I agree with Tim. If the Raptors make the playoffs with him as a very valuable contributor off the bench (and they have a much greater shot of that with him than they do with JLIII as backup), that will arguably keep his value as high as it would be playing anywhere else.

    As for next season, it seems likely that he'll be very good backup PG wherever he is, so it may as well be in Toronto.

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    Quote Mess wrote: View Post
    Not sure why Jose competing for minutes this season, as opposed to almost every other season, would suddenly ruin the chemistry of the Raptors. I think his role this year is as clear as it was last year, only it's being a backup rather than a starter...As for next season, it seems likely that he'll be very good backup PG wherever he is, so it may as well be in Toronto.
    As well put as it possibly could be.

    Puffer, "What Mess just said."

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    They both have different styles. Coach Casey would love to have the ability to sub in whichever one of them he felt would be most suitable, based on the match-ups at any given time. He is going to be super happy going into the season with these two options. The only thing that would make him change his mind is if a great trade opportunity came along. The odds of a "great trade opportunity" for Calderon coming along are very slight. Casey doesn't care about salaries, he cares about the arrows in his quiver.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    They both have different styles. Coach Casey would love to have the ability to sub in whichever one of them he felt would be most suitable, based on the match-ups at any given time. He is going to be super happy going into the season with these two options. The only thing that would make him change his mind is if a great trade opportunity came along. The odds of a "great trade opportunity" for Calderon coming along are very slight. Casey doesn't care about salaries, he cares about the arrows in his quiver.
    Unless a team is underperforming or not living up to expectations, with an upcoming free agent unwilling to resign/stating he will not resign, and/or unwilling to pay luxury tax.

    For anyone guessing who I am speculating about, see Atlanta, Chicago, Philadelphia, or Memphis. Those are the teams that immediately come to mind.... and then, of course, there is the unknown teams.

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    Calderone's reaction to the acquisition of KL was to become upset and request a trade. Not the reaction of somebody happy the team paying him $10,000,000 has been improved. My opinion is that the team will be better without him. It's just intuition on my part.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Calderone's reaction to the acquisition of KL was to become upset and request a trade. Not the reaction of somebody happy the team paying him $10,000,000 has been improved. My opinion is that the team will be better without him. It's just intuition on my part.
    Tough to know if that was his reaction or his agent's on the trade request. I'm sure regardless of trade request he was unhappy with a starter being brought in at his position. Also, it must be frustrating knowing you've been on the trade block for 3 years and technically traded once.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie 10 000 Hours's Avatar
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    I think all of this controversy is just about Jose's contract. Being demoted to the bench is never a good thing, but it's extremely amplified when a player is in a contract year.

    I really wish that he could remain an important part of the team, but money talks, and while Jose is a real class act, it's all about the bottom line.

    He'll play off the bench and do his best, but in his heart, he won't be happy.

    ...if somehow Toronto trades him for the elusive legit wing, and then manages to resign him to the MLE, Toronto would certainly be a lock for a playoff seed, and perhaps, a visit to the 2nd round???

    Jose is my favourite Raptor (by far) and I hope that the situation can be resolved for both sides.

    BTW, no one is talking about how Lowry must feel now that Casey is saying that the starting PG spot is still up for grabs.
    Walking like I'm already there.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote 10 000 Hours wrote: View Post
    I think all of this controversy is just about Jose's contract. Being demoted to the bench is never a good thing, but it's extremely amplified when a player is in a contract year.

    I really wish that he could remain an important part of the team, but money talks, and while Jose is a real class act, it's all about the bottom line.

    He'll play off the bench and do his best, but in his heart, he won't be happy.

    ...if somehow Toronto trades him for the elusive legit wing, and then manages to resign him to the MLE, Toronto would certainly be a lock for a playoff seed, and perhaps, a visit to the 2nd round???

    Jose is my favourite Raptor (by far) and I hope that the situation can be resolved for both sides.

    BTW, no one is talking about how Lowry must feel now that Casey is saying that the starting PG spot is still up for grabs.
    I think that is back peddling on the Raptors part. When Lowry was first signed the initial reaction was "PG of the future" and "starter"..... when there was no beneficial trade for Calderon the tune changed.

    I think Chisholm nailed it with:
    Despite his skills, circumstances have all but dictated that Calderon is a reserve guard given the way today's NBA landscape is shaped. While that landscape is ever-shifting, for now he'd be wise to accept a reserve role with the Raptors, post his highly efficient numbers off of the bench, and hope to play his way into a contract extension with the only NBA club he's ever known.
    Realistically where ever he goes next year he is going to be a reserve.

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    Agents don't make trade requests without instruction from their client.
    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Tough to know if that was his reaction or his agent's on the trade request. I'm sure regardless of trade request he was unhappy with a starter being brought in at his position. Also, it must be frustrating knowing you've been on the trade block for 3 years and technically traded once.

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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Agents don't make trade requests without instruction from their client.
    Agents advise their clients on how they think they should proceed. If you have an agent, and he isn't giving you advice, or you aren't taking his advice, you are throwing away 15% of your salary for nothing. I have read, in other sources, that the stuff about Jose wanting a trade after the Lowry acquisition was the agent talking. Can't remember the source, but based on JC's history, it sounded more likely than Jose complaining.

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    The source was Colangelo who said clearly on more than one occasion that Calderóne was very upset with the KL signing.

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