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Thread: Raptor PG Controversy: Part 3

  1. #21
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    The source was Colangelo who said clearly on more than one occasion that Calderóne was very upset with the KL signing.
    I think I would be more concerned if Jose wasn't upset that someone had been hired to take his job. The guy plays his ass off at all times and has been a great team player since day one. I feel that he has put the team ahead of personal success over and over and in return he has been traded once, been the repeated talk of trade speculation, had 3 over PG's hired to take over. Jose is a competitive guy and wants to play and help the team. I think he will continue to show the same character that he always has going forward regardless of his role.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Agents don't make trade requests without instruction from their client.
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    Clients often follow the lead of their agents because they deal with numerous teams and often act on behave of numerous other players. Negotiations and conflict resolutions are what they are paid to do.

    Same idea as people buying a house, they often follow the advice of the agent because they do it for a living and have much more experience in the nuances of buying a house.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    The source was Colangelo who said clearly on more than one occasion that Calderóne was very upset with the KL signing.
    It was a trade and being upset and demanding are 2 different things. If one was to make an assumption without fact then, yes, they could be interpreted as the same thing.

    I've read in numerous tweets and HoopsHype.com bits that the agent was the one publicly "through sources" pushing the trade demand/talk.

    Colangelo did say initially they would do what they could to find a mutually agreeable solution that benefited both parties.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    I think I would be more concerned if Jose wasn't upset that someone had been hired to take his job. The guy plays his ass off at all times and has been a great team player since day one. I feel that he has put the team ahead of personal success over and over and in return he has been traded once, been the repeated talk of trade speculation, had 3 over PG's hired to take over. Jose is a competitive guy and wants to play and help the team. I think he will continue to show the same character that he always has going forward regardless of his role.
    Hopefully.

    The reality is barring injury and/or trade to another team this season, Jose is a backup. Too many more talented or young point guards on rebuilding teams out there and not enough teams. For teams that are a possibility of him starting, then you have to factor in the CBA and the means that team would have of actually acquiring him - other than after a buyout. Look through the league:

    Atlanta: Teague/Harris
    Boston: Rondo
    Brooklyn: Williams
    Charlotte: Walker/Sessions
    Cleveland: Irving
    Chicago: Rose (injured to start year)
    Detroit: Knight
    Indiana: Hill/Augustin
    Miami: could definitely start but CBA factors in
    Milwaukee: Jennings
    New York: Felton/Kidd
    Orlando: Nelson
    Philadelphia: Holiday
    Washington: Wall
    Dallas: Collison
    Denver: Lawson/Miller
    Golden State: Curry
    Houston: Lin
    Clippers: Paul
    Lakers: Nash
    Memphis: Conley
    Minnesota: Rubio/Ridnour
    New Orleans: could definitely start
    OKC: Westbrook
    Phoenix: Dragic
    Portland: Lillard
    Sacramento: Brooks/Thomas
    San Antonio: Parker
    Utah: Williams

    Once CBA rules and team assets are factored in, it seems pretty clear Jose's best option is to stick it out in Toronto and work his tail off to secure his next NBA contract using the MLE.

  5. #25
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    Clients often follow the lead of their agents because they deal with numerous teams and often act on behave of numerous other players. Negotiations and conflict resolutions are what they are paid to do.

    Same idea as people buying a house, they often follow the advice of the agent because they do it for a living and have much more experience in the nuances of buying a house.
    Saying agents make trade requests without the instruction of the player is like saying your agent put your house up for sale on his own.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    Saying agents make trade requests without the instruction of the player is like saying your agent put your house up for sale on his own.
    I disagree.

    Saying agents make trade requests without the instruction of the player is like saying you commissioned an agent to sell your house, paid him, and he never bothered to list the house.

    I'm not saying it is not a possibility Jose demanded the trade but I think the possibility is greater the agent is pushing an agenda he thinks is in Jose's best interests..... cause that is what he is paid to do.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Calderone's role as the starter for this team has come and gone.
    He has beaten out every other PG to date. Why are we so sure a player who just lost his starting role (Lowry) on a non-playoff team will be able to maintain a starting role here?

    To let him think he has a chance to compete for that isn't fair to him.
    To let him think he has a chance to compete isn't fair. But telling him he has NO CHANCE is fair? Exactly how well has ensuring starting positions on this team worked out so far?

    JL3rd can backup KL. Just for chemistry Jose should be moved as soon as possible
    I also think its weird that Jose should be moved for 'chemistry' considering Colangelo just mentioned the chemistry he has with his teammates.

    I expect Lowry to be the starting PG come the beginning of the season. You don't give up a lottery pick for a guy who was disgruntled about being a back up (another irony in this saga) and then proceed to make him a back up.
    But Jose is the epitome of what this 'culture' change is all about.... yet some fans are so quick to throw him under the bus.

  8. #28
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    Quote j bean wrote: View Post
    The source was Colangelo who said clearly on more than one occasion that Calderóne was very upset with the KL signing.
    I hate to be a nitpicker but I never seen Colangelo say those words. The phrase I did hear was "I won't tell you he was happy" about Lowry being brought in.

    Now you really just read between the lines, but it only takes someone to read your post and read between your lines and think "Jose hates the trade", then someone reads that and that leads to "JOSE HATES CANADA"...now all that may be in fact true, but Jose has been nothing but professional and I would expect nothing less this season. I imagine all he wants is to be a starter but once he's in Raptors training camp it will be the usual "All I want to do is help the team win" quotes from him.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Rookie Sheptor's Avatar
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    Lowry and Calderon is the best PG Combination in Raptors History!

    I think Calderon is coming around to that fact and its one of the strongest in the league as well. Calderon is interested in 3 things (Money which he is making, Starting which has been taken, and Playoffs which he has a good chance of making.) I think money i.e locking down a contract after this season and Playoffs are whats most important if he really had to choose. Jose would not want to start on an inferior team to the raptors when he sees the makings of a playoff team here. Keep in mind players see the league through different eyes then us fans and Im sure the Raptors team with the roster all but solidified are saying PLAYOFFS! Toronto is also his most likely destination for a re-sign. If we make 6-8th bounce out of the first rd or by some miracle advance or at least play well, its likely we keep our duo together for next year and offer Jose 3 yrs 18 mil range maybe and let him retire a Raptor, fuck we might retire his Jersey....anyway there is no controversy here.

    We should be looking at our PF controversy (Bargnani, Johnson, Davis, Acy)

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Sheptor wrote: View Post
    Lowry and Calderon is the best PG Combination in Raptors History!
    i agree it has a chance to be, but i will wait and see before saying they are better than ford/jose. i thought ford/jose was a fantastic duo. lowry/jose has the chance to be even better with a little less offense and a lot more defensive potential. poor tj ford

  11. #31
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i agree it has a chance to be, but i will wait and see before saying they are better than ford/jose. i thought ford/jose was a fantastic duo. lowry/jose has the chance to be even better with a little less offense and a lot more defensive potential. poor tj ford
    TJ Ford tried to go outside of his game too often, but he was a good player none the less.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter theycallmeZZ's Avatar
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    Last I heard of Ford, he's becoming a D-League coach.
    TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

  13. #33
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    Through out Jose's tenure with the Raptors it has seemed to me that while he has always been an ultimate selfless team player, there's a limit to his tolerance. It happened when Ford was here, not so much with Jack and now with Lowry. One thing that Jose has always shown is that no matter how he feels about something inside, he never lets it affect his performance and therefore the teams performance on the Court. In other words "a true professional". Is Jose unhappy about Lowrys acquisition? Maybe not as much as the Media paints the picture but the answer clearly is 'Yes'. Does this mean that it will affect our on Court showing? Going by his past we can conclude that the answer is 'No'.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  14. #34
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    Quote theycallmeZZ wrote: View Post
    Last I heard of Ford, he's becoming a D-League coach.
    He was actually a solid rotational point guard for San An during the season, but retired because of his nagging injuries..

  15. #35
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    Nagging - possibly severely debilitating - injuries

    or did the ".." indicate that was sarcasm?

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post

    Atlanta: Teague/Harris
    Boston: Rondo
    Brooklyn: Williams
    Charlotte: Walker/Sessions
    Cleveland: Irving
    Chicago: Rose (injured to start year)
    Detroit: Knight
    Indiana: Hill/Augustin
    Miami: could definitely start but CBA factors in
    Milwaukee: Jennings
    New York: Felton/Kidd
    Orlando: Nelson
    Philadelphia: Holiday
    Washington: Wall
    Dallas: Collison
    Denver: Lawson/Miller
    Golden State: Curry
    Houston: Lin
    Clippers: Paul
    Lakers: Nash
    Memphis: Conley
    Minnesota: Rubio/Ridnour
    New Orleans: could definitely start
    OKC: Westbrook
    Phoenix: Dragic
    Portland: Lillard
    Sacramento: Brooks/Thomas
    San Antonio: Parker
    Utah: Williams

    Once CBA rules and team assets are factored in, it seems pretty clear Jose's best option is to stick it out in Toronto and work his tail off to secure his next NBA contract using the MLE.
    The teams I feel would be interested in Jose's services (as in he'd be an upgrade over the current PG) are:

    -Chicago
    -Detroit
    -Indiana
    -Miami
    -Milwaukee
    -New York
    -Philadelphia
    -Orlando
    -Memphis
    -New Orleans
    -Phoenix
    -Sacramento
    -Utah

    I think there should be a lot of suitors for Calderon especially since when he signs next summer it should be for less than his current 10mil contract

  17. #37
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    In my view Jose's dna will not permit him to be an asshole about his role once the season starts. His demeanor after the Bobcats debacle last year convinced me of that. His big regret is probably that he did not get amnestied. He would have been snapped up by any number of teams (incl those with championship possibilities) or if he was inclined to definitely be a starter go to the Euro league. But that ship has sailed. The Raps are in good position to get something back for Jose as well as the cap space by trade deadline while having a great backup to Lowry to help with the rooks start of the year. As far as "promising" a competition for the starting pg spot...hooey...what do we expect the Raps to say publically? They want to maintain Jose's value by not immediately annointing him as a backup as well as avoid offending Jose. Lowry will be gone in f/a if he sits on the bench. There is no way BC loses his investment in him.

  18. #38
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    People are forgetting that Kyle Lowry is an obvious upgrade compared to Jack and Ford with the constant question of 'who should start this game?'

  19. #39
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    I think everyone has forgotten the most important fact when considering trading him. Who will be willing to pay him $10,000,000 this year??

  20. #40
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    The teams I feel would be interested in Jose's services (as in he'd be an upgrade over the current PG) are:

    -Chicago
    -Detroit
    -Indiana
    -Miami
    -Milwaukee
    -New York
    -Philadelphia
    -Orlando
    -Memphis
    -New Orleans
    -Phoenix
    -Sacramento
    -Utah

    I think there should be a lot of suitors for Calderon especially since when he signs next summer it should be for less than his current 10mil contract
    Totally disagree with all of those teams but that aside the main thing is at this point in time I am not sure if any of those teams would have means to acquire him now. Next summer in free agency would be a different story but he'd be a backup on majority of teams as well.

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