Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 64

Thread: No love for Kleiza

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Starter omgsomuchpotential's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Lithuania
    Posts
    372
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    LOL, Linas 'Cassius' Kleiza is a pretty good one.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Rookie Phat Farmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tdot
    Posts
    78
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    And also .. BC has flat out admitted that part of the Landry situation was in an effort to get Nash .. Im pretty sure thats undisputable.

    It doesnt mean he hates him as a player .. obviously he thinks he can help the team .. its simply that he overpaid him in an attempt to make the whole nash thing work ..


    BC didn't have to overpay Landry to block the sign and trade. The moment Landry signed, regardless of the amount, the sign and trade was blocked. If you would like to quote BC he said that he "sees how it could be looked at as a tactic in the Steve Nash sign & trade, and may have had a small part to it" It doesn't mean to say that his first motivation was to block the sign and trade. Maybe he wanted Landry all along, and then realized that hey it may serve a double purpose. You are making the assumption that alot of other ppl are that his first motive was to block the trade, when in reality, I feel it's because he liked Landry first, and then 2nd wanted to block the sign and trade.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Starter Mindlessness's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    244
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    If he liked Landry, why didn't he just trade for a better version of him in Iggy, or even Kawhi Leonard

    Edit: Both though, would've been hard to get

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Starter Mindlessness's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    244
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    But much better than Landry.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,476
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mindlessness wrote: View Post
    If he liked Landry, why didn't he just trade for a better version of him in Iggy, or even Kawhi Leonard

    Edit: Both though, would've been hard to get
    Take a look at both Kawhi's and Fields's rookie year, Landry arguably had the better season....

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Starter Mindlessness's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    244
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Yeah he played 7 more minutes a game.

    If we make Leonard play the exact same amount of minutes......
    10.2PPG 0.5BPG 1.7SPG 1.4APG 6.6RPG

    Compare that to Landry
    10.2PPG 0.5BPG 1.7SPG 1.4APG 6.6RPG: Leonard
    9.7PPG 0.2BPG 1.0SPG 2.6APG 6.5RPG: Fields

    Fields only wins in one category and that is assists.

    As well, Leonard's potential is that of Gerald Wallace. And he's expected to be that and our GM COLANGELO is walking around saying fields is Shane Battier well, you could guess who's better already.

    Leonard is also a good creator so really that assists thing doesn't really say it all

  7. #47
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC.
    Posts
    4,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mindlessness wrote: View Post
    As well, Leonard's potential is that of Gerald Wallace. And he's expected to be that and our GM COLANGELO is walking around saying fields is Shane Battier well, you could guess who's better already.
    If you were to switch and put Gerald Wallace on the Heat in the finals, do you think you could see the same success? Shane Battier was a KEY player, and was a big reason for such an easy series on paper for the Heat. Arguably, he had a better series than Dwayne Wade...

    In any case, Gerald Wallace would be the dream case for Casey, but so would Shane Battier.

    Stats don't lie I can tell you that, but it also doesn't tell the entire story.... Leonard and Fields are two similar players, except Fields was in a different dynamic of a team compared to his own rookie season. Switch the two, put Fields on San Antonio, and put Leonard on New York.. See the possibility. Fields would FLOURISH in the Spurs' system.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    1,476
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mindlessness wrote: View Post
    Yeah he played 7 more minutes a game.

    If we make Leonard play the exact same amount of minutes......
    10.2PPG 0.5BPG 1.7SPG 1.4APG 6.6RPG

    Compare that to Landry
    10.2PPG 0.5BPG 1.7SPG 1.4APG 6.6RPG: Leonard
    9.7PPG 0.2BPG 1.0SPG 2.6APG 6.5RPG: Fields

    Fields only wins in one category and that is assists.

    As well, Leonard's potential is that of Gerald Wallace. And he's expected to be that and our GM COLANGELO is walking around saying fields is Shane Battier well, you could guess who's better already.

    Leonard is also a good creator so really that assists thing doesn't really say it all
    Funny how you take the time to break down the minutes but fail to mention that Landry has better shooting percentages from both 2 and 3....we can all make the stats look in our favour. All I was pointing out is that you say Leonard is ready to be a star but Fields is not.....based of what? Each can play a role and be successful on a team.

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    741
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Phat Farmer wrote: View Post
    BC didn't have to overpay Landry to block the sign and trade. The moment Landry signed, regardless of the amount, the sign and trade was blocked. If you would like to quote BC he said that he "sees how it could be looked at as a tactic in the Steve Nash sign & trade, and may have had a small part to it" It doesn't mean to say that his first motivation was to block the sign and trade. Maybe he wanted Landry all along, and then realized that hey it may serve a double purpose. You are making the assumption that alot of other ppl are that his first motive was to block the trade, when in reality, I feel it's because he liked Landry first, and then 2nd wanted to block the sign and trade.
    You might be right .. he could have liked Landry first and then realized the co-incidence with Nash. However, given how all out the organization went for Nash (which btw is understandable and I agreed with) - I would suggest the evidence supports that Nash was the #1 thought of this franchise from the start of the summer .. which would further support that Landry fits into that.

    As for the overpaying - I would suggest thats a timing thing .. if he offers "market" for Fields (3 yrs $10-$12 mm), Landry might play the field, see what else he can get and take his time. The Nash situation was unfolding quickly, and so having Landry locked up early was helpful there. If the end goal was more to get LF .. it would seem to make more sense to wait a little longer.

    Anyways .. I guess we will never know for sure .. but there sure is a lot of evidence to suggest that Nash had a lot to do with the signing ..

  10. #50
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC.
    Posts
    4,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Leonard vs. Fields

    I don't even think Leonard is THAT much better than Fields, if anything, I don't think Leonard is better than Fields.

    Remember, this is a team game. Leonard flourished in one of the most unselfish systems in the league. He was able to be a great catch-and-shoot player for this team.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...neous-per-game

    San Antonio: 4th best in the NBA, averaging 23.2 assists per game.

    New York: 18th in the NBA, averaging 20.1 assists per game.

    He was a ROLE player on a fantastic team system.

    The Knicks' dynamic changed ever since the trade with Carmelo, and man did that team REALLY change.

    Fields' stats 2010-2011 season.

    Rookie Averages: 30.4 MPG, 9.3 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 1.9 APG, 1 SPG, .489 FG%, .386% 3PFG, .745% FT%

    Fields' stats 2011-2012 season.

    Sophomore Averages: 28.3 MPG, 8.7 PPG, 4.1 RPG, 2.5 APG, 1.2 SPG, .461 FG%, .254% 3PFG, .569 FT%

    Stats don't tell the whole story, but neither do they lie. Fields was less involved in the game, thus affecting his all-around production.

    Kawhi Leonard rookie averages: 24.5 MPG, 8.1 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 1.0 APG, 1.3 SPG, .491 FG%, .396 3PFG%, .779 FT%

    Comparing the ROOKIE stats, INCLUDING post-Melo trade, the two are similar. Fields on a Spurs team would flourish, and Leonard on New York would be the same as Fields' production.

    Fields averaged similar stats on a one-man team, that's really enough to say Fields could be better.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,863
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    they needed a contract landry would sign day one, had to throw money at him. they figured pheonix wont take shrumbert with the knee so it kills the sign and trade with new york. fields "might" have been, and very well could have been, a target prior to the summer but his contract is entirely set up as a nash block. i am pretty sure the cap hit on us is the average of the entire contract per season but new york would have been 9 million on the last year and really messed with their cap figures.

    "The 2011 Collective Bargaining Agreement gives a major advantage to teams writing these poison pill contracts. For salary cap and luxury tax purposes, only the average yearly value of the deal is counted. But a team matching the offer does not get the same benefit.
    For example: the Houston Rockets offered identical contracts to Knicks guard Jeremy Lin and Chicago Bulls forward/center Omer Asik. They deals will pay roughly $5 million in years one and two and $15 million in year three. For the Rockets, those deals will count as roughly $8.3 million contracts each year, for cap and tax purposes. If the Knicks opted to match, Lin's deal would count at its actual value. That $15 million cap hit - combined with the contracts of Amar'e Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony and Tyson Chandler - would have come with a staggering luxury tax bill."

    http://basketball.about.com/od/nba-c...l-Contract.htm



    for the record of the new debate. i would take leonard over fields everyday of the week. younger/cheaper/potential. leonard can be a real game changer on defense. one of the top in the league for years to come.
    Last edited by Miekenstien; Tue Aug 7th, 2012 at 10:38 PM.

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,255
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Clearly one of the top players from the Olympics, but still no love. Can't blame Raptors fans for feeling this way for since coming to Toronto he's been a pretty big disappointment. Where's this passion you play with when you play for your homeland Lithuania, Linas? Raptors fans demand the same expectations.

    From RaptorsRepublic.com homepage under Hot Topics
    This description nails my thoughts on the Kleiza argument/debate/whatever you want to call it.

    Look at the timeline:

    • Summer 2010 - contract signed and dominated World Championships

      Late summer-early fall 2010 - injured shortly after dominating PHX in Vancouver during preseason exhibition.

      Fall 2010 and in to early 2011 - Clearly not playing well

      February 3rd, 2011 - announced microfracture surgery and out for 9-12 months

      January 11, 2012 - returned from career threatening injury

      January 11 - April 26, 2012 - up and down performances, sat out due to soreness/swelling/precaution during lockout shortened regular season marathon schedule.

      July-August 2012 - 2 months removed from return to high competition with presumably more strength training/rehabilitation/practice/game experience he is showing the form and promise he showed in the summer of 2010 when he was last 100% healthy



    I am extremely biased as Kleiza is my favourite Raptor so take this with a giant chunk of salt:

    To question a guy's passion and commitment to Toronto after the injury and subsequent surgery he experienced is not fair or reasonable. Does anyone really think he entered the 2010-11 season hoping to be injured and under go microfracture surgery?


    A homer/biased/glass half full perspective:

    Kleiza has worked extremely hard to return to form from possible career ending injury in these Olympics. I hope his performance and health carry over to the NBA season for Toronto.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Wed Aug 8th, 2012 at 08:23 AM.

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    +1

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Lietuva
    Posts
    1,364
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Kleiza stated that nba is just business, National team for him is something different, he feels the support. Playing in nba after you played in Europe and felt the huge support from the fans is something difficult. It's way harder to find passion and motivation, of course willing to prove yourself best among the best still exists. My thoughts.

  15. #55
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,255
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote RandomGuy wrote: View Post
    Kleiza stated that nba is just business, National team for him is something different, he feels the support. Playing in nba after you played in Europe and felt the huge support from the fans is something difficult. It's way harder to find passion and motivation, of course willing to prove yourself best among the best still exists. My thoughts.
    I'd love to read that interview.

    I could be wrong but I don't think he is the type to not give 100%. I think there is too much competitiveness for him to not give his all - whether for Lithuania or in the NBA. This was what was implied, by my interpretation, of the message on the home page of RR.com under Hot Topics.

    My point is the guy has never played healthy for Toronto outside of a couple of exhibition games 2 years ago. It is tough to criticize him on his Raptor performance when he has not played for the Raptors healthy.

    The Kleiza Craptor Sandwich is hardly his fault but for anyone interested in the recipe, here it is:

    Take a slice of really good international play,
    smear a microfracture portion of Craptor performance all over it,
    Put another slice of really good international play over it.
    ENJOY!


    **Disclaimer: Huge Kleiza fan**

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,957
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Even if 100% healthy, not sure if Kleiza would be given the same opportunity to succeed with the Raptors, as he's had with the National team. Kleiza's the #1 option for Lithuania. He'd be lucky to be the 4th option in Toronto (behind Bargnani, Lowry and DeRozan...maybe even Ross).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  17. #57
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,255
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Even if 100% healthy, not sure if Kleiza would be given the same opportunity to succeed with the Raptors, as he's had with the National team. Kleiza's the #1 option for Lithuania. He'd be lucky to be the 4th option in Toronto (behind Bargnani, Lowry and DeRozan...maybe even Ross).
    I think this is getting away from my intentions of the original Hot Topic post.

    This line, "Can't blame Raptors fans for feeling this way for since coming to Toronto he's been a pretty big disappointment" is very accurate. Unfortunately we are not talking about a guy who has been healthy and decided to f*ck the pooch like, say, a Charlie V.

    Kleiza has never been 100% for the Raptors in the regular season. I really, truly hope he is 100% this year for his sake and my own selfish sake as a Raptor fan.

  18. #58
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,286
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think this is getting away from my intentions of the original Hot Topic post.

    This line, "Can't blame Raptors fans for feeling this way for since coming to Toronto he's been a pretty big disappointment" is very accurate. Unfortunately we are not talking about a guy who has been healthy and decided to f*ck the pooch like, say, a Charlie V.

    Kleiza has never been 100% for the Raptors in the regular season. I really, truly hope he is 100% this year for his sake and my own selfish sake as a Raptor fan.
    He was looking like a great addition 2 pre-seasons ago, just after his successful World Championship run, coming off the bench with Amir, behind Bargnani & Evans. If memory serves me, I believe they played a pre-season game in Vancouver against Phoenix and beat them, with Kleiza hitting a ton of shots off the bench... but then he went and tweaked his knee later that preseason or early on in the season, and he hasn't been the same since. Hopefully Kleiza will showup fully healthy and on top of his game, ready to be a leader on the 2nd unit.

  19. #59
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC.
    Posts
    4,052
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    This description nails my thoughts on the Kleiza argument/debate/whatever you want to call it.

    Look at the timeline:

    • Summer 2010 - contract signed and dominated World Championships

      Late summer-early fall 2010 - injured shortly after dominating PHX in Vancouver during preseason exhibition.

      Fall 2010 and in to early 2011 - Clearly not playing well

      February 3rd, 2011 - announced microfracture surgery and out for 9-12 months

      January 11, 2012 - returned from career threatening injury

      January 11 - April 26, 2012 - up and down performances, sat out due to soreness/swelling/precaution during lockout shortened regular season marathon schedule.

      July-August 2012 - 2 months removed from return to high competition with presumably more strength training/rehabilitation/practice/game experience he is showing the form and promise he showed in the summer of 2010 when he was last 100% healthy



    I am extremely biased as Kleiza is my favourite Raptor so take this with a giant chunk of salt:

    To question a guy's passion and commitment to Toronto after the injury and subsequent surgery he experienced is not fair or reasonable. Does anyone really think he entered the 2010-11 season hoping to be injured and under go microfracture surgery?


    A homer/biased/glass half full perspective:

    Kleiza has worked extremely hard to return to form from possible career ending injury in these Olympics. I hope his performance and health carry over to the NBA season for Toronto.
    +1 I've always like Kleiza as well, not as much as Matt here, but he always brought something more than his ability to shoot, and score in bunches. He was a tough motherfucker, gritty, and doesn't give a shit about you or anyone else, he is there to win.

    With him being possibly 100% excites me, because the last time I saw him really healthy and perform so easily was in Vancouver, (a game that I was at, also enjoying booing Turkey). The game that he also played in Utah this past season, was also how much of a big time contributor he can be.

  20. #60
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    11,994
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Calderon/Kleiza Parallel

    When Calderon got to Toronto he played hurt his entire first season and he struggle with his shot because of it; he couldn't get his legs into it. Without being able to hit the open shot defenses could cheat on him and it threw his whole game off. I remember clearly that season being on a very popular message board and reader many, many, many posts about how much of a waste of money Calderon was he why on earth was he playing for the Raptors. Next season he was healthy and the rest is history...

    Most Raptors fans have short fuses and short memories. Kleiza needs to bring it in the NBA for him to become beloved in Toronto.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •