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David Aldridge's off-season grades. Toronto Raptors: 18

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  • #16
    Primer wrote: View Post
    Ugh, just read through the rankings and they make very little sense to me. The Hawks are a bottom 10 team? OK, I guess he's just looking at stats of players in and out, and not contract values or salary cap implications. But wait, he specifically says in his methodology that he does take into account contract value and cap space? So which one is it?

    I would argue the Hawks are a top 10 team for unloading the worst value contract in the NBA, Joe Johnsons deal, plus another horrible value contract in Marvin Williams deal, in exchange for a very reasonable deal to Lou Williams, a far superior player (shorter contract too) in Devin Harris in exchange for Marvin Williams, all while creating huge cap space for next summer. The Hawks maybe lose 5 more games this season with the players that were exchanged, plus they finally have flexibility. I can't see any way that this was a bottom 10 offseason. Especially considering who he put nearer the top.

    The Sixers had the 2nd best offseason? Are you fucking kidding me? In what Bizzarro universe does this clown live in. They replace an extremely efficient Lou Williams with an abysmal Nick Young, they lose their best frontcourt player in Brand for absolutely nothing, and they explicitly state they are going to start their other absymal acquisition, Kwame Brown, at Center. How the fuck is a team that basically swapped Williams and Brand for Young and Brown considered the 2nd best offseason mover? The sixers have gotten much worse and did nothing to improve their future cap flexibility.

    I also cannot see how you rate the NY Knicks offseason above the Raptors. They lost Lin and replaced him with Felton and Kidd, a huge mega downgrade unless Kidd and Felton find a time machine in the offseason. They lost Fields and replaced him with no one. The only position they improved at was C by getting Camby. How is that better than the Raps offseason adding Lowry, Fields, Valanciunas, and Ross? It isn't.

    Basically, this guys rankings are shit.
    +1 idk wtf DA was thinking. I think he was high when he wrote this

    Comment


    • #17
      Philly was able to acquire Moultrie from trade with the Heat also, and drafted Moe Harkless. Two solid pieces with potential for the future. Nick Young I thought was a nice addition though, especially from what I saw from him in the playoffs.

      Holiday, Turner, Iguodala, Moultrie, Hawes? Key reserves: Nick Young, Harkless, Meeks. They add youth, but I don't even see them making the playoffs next season. Inexperience will play a HUGE part, after losing their best big man and leader.

      I also don't understand how Washington isn't in the top 10. Philly and Washington should be reversed, and Minnesota should be in the top 10 instead of the Rockets...

      Washington added veteran key players who could easily make this team competitive, but not necessarily a playoff team like the 76ers. Emeka Okafor, a good big man, who is solid down low on both ends. Trevor Ariza, a key role player on the Lakers championship run in 2009, who brought everything to the table. Not to mention the addition of Bradley Beal, with potential to be a superstar shooting guard, who is already a solid player.

      Wall, Beal, Ariza, Nene, Okafor Key Reserves: Crawford, Vesely, Seraphin. Not bad I may say.

      Minnesota added some talented wings in Andrei Kirilenko, Chase Budinger, and hopefully, a healthy Brandon Roy could really do something special for that team. Not to mention they added a solid center in Stiemsma, and got rid of Milicic. I can see this team competing for a playoff spot in the West.

      Rubio, Roy, Kirilenko, Love, Pekovic. Key reserves: Barea, Budinger, Ridnour, D. Williams, Stiemsma. This team looks awfully nice.

      Just my sum up on how things should actually look. Raptors should be from 12-16 IMO.
      Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

      Comment


      • #18
        Primer wrote: View Post
        Really tired of writers incorrectly reporting Landry Fields contract when the correct info is available all over the internet. It's a 3 year, $18.725M contract. Not a 3 year $20 million contract. The $1.275M difference doesn't seem like a lot, but it becomes pretty damn important when we're splitting hairs over whether he is overpaid or not. I just don't see why they can't start reporting the correct number, since it's been out for nearly a month now. Further proof of how little research goes into writing those fluff pieces.
        +1

        Same with Amir Johnson's supposed 5 year, $35M deal.

        Comment


        • #19
          RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
          Philly was able to acquire Moultrie from trade with the Heat also, and drafted Moe Harkless. Two solid pieces with potential for the future. Nick Young I thought was a nice addition though, especially from what I saw from him in the playoffs.

          Holiday, Turner, Iguodala, Moultrie, Hawes? Key reserves: Nick Young, Harkless, Meeks. They add youth, but I don't even see them making the playoffs next season. Inexperience will play a HUGE part, after losing their best big man and leader.

          I also don't understand how Washington isn't in the top 10. Philly and Washington should be reversed, and Minnesota should be in the top 10 instead of the Rockets...

          Washington added veteran key players who could easily make this team competitive, but not necessarily a playoff team like the 76ers. Emeka Okafor, a good big man, who is solid down low on both ends. Trevor Ariza, a key role player on the Lakers championship run in 2009, who brought everything to the table. Not to mention the addition of Bradley Beal, with potential to be a superstar shooting guard, who is already a solid player.

          Wall, Beal, Ariza, Nene, Okafor Key Reserves: Crawford, Vesely, Seraphin. Not bad I may say.

          Minnesota added some talented wings in Andrei Kirilenko, Chase Budinger, and hopefully, a healthy Brandon Roy could really do something special for that team. Not to mention they added a solid center in Stiemsma, and got rid of Milicic. I can see this team competing for a playoff spot in the West.

          Rubio, Roy, Kirilenko, Love, Pekovic. Key reserves: Barea, Budinger, Ridnour, D. Williams, Stiemsma. This team looks awfully nice.

          Just my sum up on how things should actually look. Raptors should be from 12-16 IMO.
          Hawes is playing the 4 with Kwame Brown at 5 starting for Philly, according to Collins.

          Totally agree that Minni and Washington should be in the top 10. I also think NYK was put a little high to me. I think they got worse to be honest. Kurt Thomas, Camby, Felton, and Kidd - Lin and Fields is not better than Ross, Fields, Lowry - Forbes and JJ

          But then again, not over paying for Lin and Fields could be seen as big plus'.
          Last edited by Red and White; Tue Aug 7, 2012, 06:54 PM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Primer wrote: View Post
            Really tired of writers incorrectly reporting Landry Fields contract when the correct info is available all over the internet. It's a 3 year, $18.725M contract. Not a 3 year $20 million contract. The $1.275M difference doesn't seem like a lot, but it becomes pretty damn important when we're splitting hairs over whether he is overpaid or not. I just don't see why they can't start reporting the correct number, since it's been out for nearly a month now. Further proof of how little research goes into writing those fluff pieces.
            Exaggeration greases the wheel of the bus people are getting tossed under.

            Comment


            • #21
              Not sure why some are down on DA about this article. It's not a ranking of how teams will do next season. It's a ranking of off season moves and the grade he feels they merit isn't it? I'd say for the most part it's spot on.

              Comment


              • #22
                I actually thought that the Raps should have been ranked way higher than 18.

                The moves that theyve made so far were to address the needs, and i think theyve done at least 80% of what needed to be done. The 20% missing is the scoring wing and trading Calderon.

                They needed a scoring, defensive PG, they got Lowry, a solid backup in LucasIII, a scorer in Ross, and a 5 in JV to put Bargnani in the 4.

                On paper, definitely looks good.

                Comment


                • #23
                  TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                  I actually thought that the Raps should have been ranked way higher than 18.

                  The moves that theyve made so far were to address the needs, and i think theyve done at least 80% of what needed to be done. The 20% missing is the scoring wing and trading Calderon.

                  They needed a scoring, defensive PG, they got Lowry, a solid backup in LucasIII, a scorer in Ross, and a 5 in JV to put Bargnani in the 4.

                  On paper, definitely looks good.
                  I agree fully. #18 offseason ranking seems way too low for the Raptors.

                  ROSTER MOVES
                  Bayless --> Lowry
                  Uzoh --> Lucas III
                  Magloire --> Valanciunas
                  Alabi --> Acy
                  Johnson --> Fields
                  Forbes --> Ross

                  STARTING UNIT
                  Gray --> Valanciunas (learning curve for sure, but should become the better player at both ends very quickly)
                  Bargnani (a healthy season with improved lineup around him, both with more scorers and better point-of-attack defense, should see his numbers improve)
                  Johnson --> Fields (similar all-around game at both ends, but much more controlled/consistent)
                  DeRozan (should/better continue improving; end of season play and Olympic select team experience should help)
                  Calderon --> Lowry (significant upgrade defensively, much better penetrator)

                  2ND UNIT
                  Amir/Magloire --> Amir/Gray (depending on matchups, depth at C/PF is even better this season, meaning there should be lots of competition for playing time)
                  Davis (first full offseason, likely with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove, I am quietly/hopefully optimistic)
                  Kleiza (appears to be fully healthy for first time in two years)
                  Forbes --> Ross (will have a learning curve, but will have much more leeway to learn and be streaky shooter on 2nd unit)
                  Bayless --> Calderon (due to poor defense, he goes from being a below-average starter to a seriously above-average backup)

                  BENCH
                  Alabi --> Acy
                  Anderson
                  Uzoh --> Lucas III


                  The Raps are solid, young team, full of players with loads of potential. When you consider the fact that Raptors made all these changes and still enter the season only about $3.5M over the salary cap and have Calderon's $10.6M contract expiring (Gray (TBC), Lucas III (Team Option), Anderson and DeRozan (QO) are also expiring) to give them even more roster/cap flexibility next offseason, so I can't understand how they could possibly be ranked so low. Even the slightly overpaid Fields contract should be more than offset by the Lowry contract, which is widely regarded as one of the best value contracts in the league.

                  I still think they need a true impact #1 option type wing (likely SF), but they have Calderon (expiring contract), PF depth (likely Davis, possibly Amir) and SG depth (possibly DeRozan, if Fields returns to rookie year form and Ross proves worth of being a lottery pick) to offer in trade. As an FYI, Calderon ($10.6M) + Davis ($2.2M) + DeRozan ($3.3M) would allow the Raps to bring back more than $20.2M in salary (as a maximum), if they so desired.
                  Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Aug 8, 2012, 01:22 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Interesting point about DeRozan being expendable if Fields returns to form. I suppose Ross's showing this year could also influence how Colangelo views DeRozan going forward.
                    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Aug 8, 2012, 03:20 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Voice of reason:

                      Nilanka wrote: View Post
                      Interesting point about DeRozan being expendable if Fields returns to form. I suppose Ross's showing this year could also influence how Colangelo views DeRozan going forward.
                      Ideally, a team has a 4 wing rotation (at most). Assuming Kleiza is kept as a backup SF who is also capable of playing PF in a small 2nd unit, then one of DeRozan/Fields/Ross would automatically become expendable, if a star veteran SF (ie: Gay, Iggy, whoever else) is added.

                      Fields is probably the best of those 3 defensively and is also likely slightly overpaid.

                      Ross is an unproven, potential sharpshooter type rookie, who could develop into a great 6th man scorer, similar to Barbosa/Terry/Mayo.

                      That leaves DeRozan, who is a solid player, who probably hasn't lived up to expectations that most Raptors fans have had for him (rightfully or wrongfully placed on him after being named a starter from day 1). Even so, DeRozan's going to expect a big payday this offseason, as an RFA.

                      If Fields returns to form, he's the superior defensive SG. If Ross develops up to potential, he'll become the superior outside shooting SG. With Kleiza and the yet-to-be-named starting SF on board, then DeRozan seems to make the most sense to use as trade bait, especially since he'll be seeking a raise and is probably the most in-demand.

                      If BC were to make Calderon & DeRozan & Davis (total $16.1M in salary going out) available as a package, I think he could definitely find some interested parties. Even if the roster moves are in fact done for the offseason, I think BC will be quite busy between now and the trade deadline.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Voice of reason:

                        They overpaid Landry in a gamble to win Nash. That gamble blew up in their face. While they stalled through that process the business kept moving. They failed at their biggest FA goal and lost time. If Colangelo would have gained much praise for landing Nash then he equally deserves criticism for failing to land Nash in a way which led to the Raptors potentially losing opportunities. It's only fair. Should they be 18 or should they be higher? You can argue they should but when you say way higher what are you thinking about? 15th? 10th? 5th? I'm not sure they were better than 15th. That's middle of the road. JV was last year. You can't add JV in two year in a row.

                        What did other teams do? You all are only talking about what the Raptors did. If they're way higher then who are they knocking down a notch and why?

                        TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                        I actually thought that the Raps should have been ranked way higher than 18.

                        The moves that theyve made so far were to address the needs, and i think theyve done at least 80% of what needed to be done. The 20% missing is the scoring wing and trading Calderon.

                        They needed a scoring, defensive PG, they got Lowry, a solid backup in LucasIII, a scorer in Ross, and a 5 in JV to put Bargnani in the 4.

                        On paper, definitely looks good.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Apollo wrote: View Post
                          They overpaid Landry in a gamble to win Nash. That gamble blew up in their face. While they stalled through that process the business kept moving. They failed at their biggest FA goal and lost time. If Colangelo would have gained much praise for landing Nash then he equally deserves criticism for failing to land Nash in a way which led to the Raptors potentially losing opportunities. It's only fair. Should they be 18 or should they be higher? You can argue they should but when you say way higher what are you thinking about? 15th? 10th? 5th? I'm not sure they were better than 15th. That's middle of the road. JV was last year. You can't add JV in two year in a row.

                          What did other teams do? You all are only talking about what the Raptors did. If they're way higher then who are they knocking down a notch and why?
                          If JV was excluded, id say the Raptors would be a notch or two lower, but since DA did include JV, yes, i would say, way higher than 18.

                          I would put the Raps over Phoenix, since Phoenix actually lost a franchise player and replaced him with a backup. They did pick up Wesley, Scola and Beasley, but IMO, their defense got much worse.
                          Id also put the Raps over the Bobcats since the team needs scoring, and they did pick up Gordon, but sessions, haywood and MKG are not scorers.
                          Id put the Raps over the Nuggets, becuase 4 yrs for 44 mil for McGee is a bit high and 1 late round and 2 2nd round rookies, on paper, probably wont be rotation players.
                          I think Allen going to the Heat is not that big of a bump for them, they need a true Center to bang with the other big men and they didnt address that.
                          The Rockets, more volume than quality.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            They overpaid Landry in a gamble to win Nash. That gamble blew up in their face. While they stalled through that process the business kept moving. They failed at their biggest FA goal and lost time. If Colangelo would have gained much praise for landing Nash then he equally deserves criticism for failing to land Nash in a way which led to the Raptors potentially losing opportunities. It's only fair. Should they be 18 or should they be higher? You can argue they should but when you say way higher what are you thinking about? 15th? 10th? 5th? I'm not sure they were better than 15th. That's middle of the road. JV was last year. You can't add JV in two year in a row.

                            What did other teams do? You all are only talking about what the Raptors did. If they're way higher then who are they knocking down a notch and why?
                            Gotta disagree that we overpaid Landry in a gamble for Nash. We overpaid Landry so that NY wouldn't match, because we wanted him regardless of Nash. If we had simply wanted to take Landry out of S&T deals, we could have offered him the deal without a poison pill, and a smaller deal. If we had offered him 3 years $15 million ($5 mill per year), he most certainly would have signed it, taking him out of any possible S&T's, but then NY would have matched it. The reason we didn't offer a 3 year $15 million deal is because we did not want NY to match, which means it had nothing to do with Nash.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I think the Raps deserve to be at least 15. The reason why is they got better.

                              Forget contracts, just look at talent. They are younger, deeper, with more (of the very overused word) potential, and, therefore,better.

                              The reason behind 15 is very primitive and easily debunked but I'll go for it anyways. Not every team will be better. If one team is better, presumably another team is going to get worse because of it. Since better/worse is based on wins/losses, everyone can't get better, can they? Someone still has to lose the game and there are only 1230 games played in an 82 game, 30 team season (someone can double check my math!). A win won by a team comes at the expense of a win from another team somewhere.

                              So if half the teams are better (and I think the Raps are one of them) then half the teams must have become worse..... so 15 for Toronto!


                              **The other thing to keep in mind is few other teams in the league have a rabid fan base like Toronto. Putting them in a few notches lower is a great way to generate attention to an article.**

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Primer wrote: View Post
                                Gotta disagree that we overpaid Landry in a gamble for Nash. We overpaid Landry so that NY wouldn't match, because we wanted him regardless of Nash. If we had simply wanted to take Landry out of S&T deals, we could have offered him the deal without a poison pill, and a smaller deal. If we had offered him 3 years $15 million ($5 mill per year), he most certainly would have signed it, taking him out of any possible S&T's, but then NY would have matched it. The reason we didn't offer a 3 year $15 million deal is because we did not want NY to match, which means it had nothing to do with Nash.
                                I didn't initially agree with your side of the argument, but once I thought about it and realized that Fields would be out of any S&T scenario regardless or NY matching or not, then it made sense that the deal was also made to actually sign him. However, it is possible that had BC known that Nash was going to sign elsewhere, he may have chosen to use his approx. $12M cap space another way, as opposed to S&T for Nash and overpaid signing for Fields. That is way too far into unknown 'what if' territory though, to have any real conversation about it. I think it's safe to say that Fields is/was both a BC & DC type of player, regardless which PG the Raps had/have running the team - he is young, contributes at both ends, doesn't require the ball to be in his hands to be effective, can buy into the defense-first mentality and was a decent outside shooter prior to the 'Melo-era in NY.

                                The Raps had $12M in cap space heading into the offseason. Being able to add Lowry ($5.75M) and Fields ($6.3M) is a pretty effective use of that cap space, given what was on the market and what prices were handed out to some other free agents this offseason. Yes, Fields is probably $1-1.5M overpaid, but if he returns to the form from his rookie season and improves from there, over the course of his years in Toronto, then I think he'll have justified the salary. It's not as though the Raps are in a bad spot cap-wise, so they are one team who could afford to slightly overpay to lure a RFA anyway. As long as his signing didn't/doesn't prevent a better acquisition from being made (signing or trade), who really cares how much he's getting paid?

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