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Thread: David Aldridge's off-season grades. Toronto Raptors: 18

  1. #41
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    And that's all everyone was talking about when it first leaked and right up until Nash bailed on the Toronto idea. Then the spin doctors went to work repairing the damage... They deserve a raise.

    I don't know off hand but why does that matter? Since when did the terms "responsible" and "at all costs" start fitting together?
    Are you saying you don't like revisionists?

    Yes, we overpaid by ~$2M a year in my opinion. And having an overpaid SG/SF can prevent us from pursuing a better one at a fairer market price should one become available.

    The other thing that makes me shrug is how many RR posters overvalue 1st round draft picks when we are to acquire them but are quick to dismiss them when we trade them. Don't get me wrong, I believe the Lowry trade was a good one but that's because I am not in love with the potential of having the possibility of drafting prospect with perceived high ceiling that they will likely never touch with a ten-foot pole.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I feel like he was the best option to upgrade the 3 left. When players like iggy and gay were not available.
    Just out of curiosity...how is Fields an upgrade at the 3? James Johnson had better numbers across the board and was a better defender. Fields shot something like 26% from beyond the 3pt line and 60% from the free throw line. I know a lot of people (including myself) are hoping he regains his form from his rookie season, but what if he doesn't? Then his signing really is at best a lateral move from James Johnson and an incredibly bad contract.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think the Raps deserve to be at least 15. The reason why is they got better.

    Forget contracts, just look at talent. They are younger, deeper, with more (of the very overused word) potential, and, therefore,better.

    The reason behind 15 is very primitive and easily debunked but I'll go for it anyways. Not every team will be better. If one team is better, presumably another team is going to get worse because of it. Since better/worse is based on wins/losses, everyone can't get better, can they? Someone still has to lose the game and there are only 1230 games played in an 82 game, 30 team season (someone can double check my math!). A win won by a team comes at the expense of a win from another team somewhere.

    So if half the teams are better (and I think the Raps are one of them) then half the teams must have become worse..... so 15 for Toronto!


    **The other thing to keep in mind is few other teams in the league have a rabid fan base like Toronto. Putting them in a few notches lower is a great way to generate attention to an article.**
    The way i understood DA's rankings, it was purely based on offseason moves, how it COULD affect the team, and solely the team, not how they would fare against other teams. I think with the acquisition of Lowry, Fields, Lucas, Ross, Acy and JV the team drastically changes, for the better, because of how these players fit the Raps system.

  4. #44
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I feel like he was the best option to upgrade the 3 left. When players like iggy and gay were not available.
    And why did they need to rush to upgrade right away?

    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I agree, but Batum would've had to been overpaid dearly beyond Fields
    Batum got paid based on potential. If he lives up to it he's actually coming at a discount. It's a gamble on Batum himself. The results won't be known right away.

    Landry got paid because Colangelo really wanted Steve Nash at all costs. Does anyone feel Landry can live up to his contract? I don't. I just hope people don't start riding the poor guy because his game doesn't match his income (you know it's going to happen at some point). Landry was a gamble on Nash. We know the outcome.

    One is up in the air. One is a fail.

    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    landry isn't even on it because i think they say he is a 2. from this list i would take grant hill/batum and against what a lot of people say, beasley, over landry. the beas would have been a lot cheaper, hill would have been a great vet and batum would have had more potential.
    Standing pat is better than summoning "Colangelo pre-extension". I like Batum, he fits everything they said they were about.


    Here's a question for all. If Colangelo was not on a contract year do you feel he would be operating the off-season like he has so far?

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    IMO, yes. Im not sure about the terms of his contract, but either way, if the owners end up not liking the deals he's made, then they can fire him any time. I think he's well established enough in the league that he knows he'll be able to find a job in some capacity so he probably wont play it safe, contract year or not.

    IMO, Fields was a pawn, no more no less. I think BC knew it would be a win-semi win gamble on their part if they took a risk on Fields as a pawn in the Nash signing. It wouldve been a tremendous win if they got steve nash and partial win even if they end up with Fields. I think JJ was gone regardless of the Fields signing.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    IMO, yes. Im not sure about the terms of his contract, but either way, if the owners end up not liking the deals he's made, then they can fire him any time. I think he's well established enough in the league that he knows he'll be able to find a job in some capacity so he probably wont play it safe, contract year or not.

    IMO, Fields was a pawn, no more no less. I think BC knew it would be a win-semi win gamble on their part if they took a risk on Fields as a pawn in the Nash signing. It wouldve been a tremendous win if they got steve nash and partial win even if they end up with Fields. I think JJ was gone regardless of the Fields signing.
    Most definitely agree.

  7. #47
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    And why did they need to rush to upgrade right away?
    Because Colangelo is on a contract year.

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Does anyone feel Landry can live up to his contract?
    Despite being of the opinion signing Landry Fields to that contract was a really bad idea, I believe there is a small possibility Landry Fields can live up to his contract. But as I can't imagine Fields being a bargain, paying his maximum worth under the best of circumstances makes no sense to me.

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Standing pat is better than summoning "Colangelo pre-extension". I like Batum, he fits everything they said they were about.
    I would rather the Raptors did not sign Landry Fields and did not pursue Steve Nash. I saw no point whatsoever in Colangelo pursuing Nash at the money that was suggested if other than to save his job.

    I like the Lowry trade.

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Here's a question for all. If Colangelo was not on a contract year do you feel he would be operating the off-season like he has so far?
    If it was dependent on him, no. If it was dependent on the owners pushing to get certain things achieved, then who knows.

    BryCo is a Spin Doctor and has no trouble restating the goals in a manner that will best benefit himself and his employer. A bit like a CEO who tells the shareholders the Company had a great year because they grew the EBIT by 5.2% and the employees they would only received 1.6% raises on average because they failed to increase the EBIT to 6.0%, as projected.

    It's a talent.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i just googled 2012 nba sf free agents and this is the first list that came up

    http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2012/6...small-forwards

    landry isn't even on it because i think they say he is a 2. from this list i would take grant hill/batum and against what a lot of people say, beasley, over landry. the beas would have been a lot cheaper, hill would have been a great vet and batum would have had more potential.
    Beasley wouldn't be cheaper, he basically got an identical contract to Fields, 3 years $18M, compared to Fields 3 years $18.725M. I for one would much much much much much (did I say much?) rather have Fields on the Raptors than Beasley.

    We're talking 6.7 WP for Fields in a bad season for him, vs a -0.3 for Beasley.
    Also, Fields had a better WP than Gay too. Advanced stats are on his side big time.

  9. #49
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Beasley wouldn't be cheaper, he basically got an identical contract to Fields, 3 years $18M, compared to Fields 3 years $18.725M. I for one would much much much much much (did I say much?) rather have Fields on the Raptors than Beasley.

    We're talking 6.7 WP for Fields in a bad season for him, vs a -0.3 for Beasley.
    Also, Fields had a better WP than Gay too. Advanced stats are on his side big time.
    I do agree with you. Not to mention that Beasley has never lived up to the potential, and his off-court problems.

    Fields > Beasley any day of the week for me.

  10. #50
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Beasley wouldn't be cheaper, he basically got an identical contract to Fields, 3 years $18M, compared to Fields 3 years $18.725M. I for one would much much much much much (did I say much?) rather have Fields on the Raptors than Beasley.

    We're talking 6.7 WP for Fields in a bad season for him, vs a -0.3 for Beasley.
    Also, Fields had a better WP than Gay too. Advanced stats are on his side big time.
    There's really no point comparing Fields to a bunch of other wings that were never going to be Raptors, for one reason or another. Guys like Batum (always going to be matched by Portland), Beasley (BC passed on him once, not the character/defense/hustle type of player BC/DC want), Hill (doubt he'd have any interest signing with a rebuilding team with no Nash, even if BC was interested, which I personally doubt he was) should never enter into a comparison with Fields, from the Raptors' perspective.

    Is Fields $1-2M overpaid, based on his average salary over the life of the contract? Yes. Though technically he's not really even overpaid until the 3rd year of his deal, when is spikes significantly. However, as a 26 year old veteran wing on an expiring $9M-ish contract, who says he even finishes the contract with the Raptors? I think he'll be a decent addition, albeit perhaps slightly overpaid, but I don't see his signing preventing other better moves from getting done (either ones we've already missed out on or could miss out on).

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post

    Is Fields $1-2M overpaid, based on his average salary over the life of the contract? Yes. Though technically he's not really even overpaid until the 3rd year of his deal, when is spikes significantly. However, as a 26 year old veteran wing on an expiring $9M-ish contract, who says he even finishes the contract with the Raptors? I think he'll be a decent addition, albeit perhaps slightly overpaid, but I don't see his signing preventing other better moves from getting done (either ones we've already missed out on or could miss out on).

    he is a cap hit of 6.whatever a year for us, the average of the three years together.

  12. #52
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    he is a cap hit of 6.whatever a year for us, the average of the three years together.
    I don't think he is a cap hit. We have flexibility from now, till next Summer with the expiring/trade-able asset of Jose and his contract, and the need to clear up the 4-spot. I believe the real problem with the contract, is whether Fields was really worth that money.

    We have the possibility to have about 10$ million free in cap space with the expiring contract of Jose (correct if mistaken). We have good flexibility for next summer, being rumoured that this team's off-season is complete, next possible moves by trade-deadline. Letting Demar walk, Jose walk, and using either Ed/Amir in a trade, could clear up considerable cap space next summer.

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I don't think he is a cap hit.

    We have the possibility to have about 10$ million free in cap space with the expiring contract of Jose (correct if mistaken). summer.
    the first one. yes he has a cap hit, every player counts to the cap. i posted a link in another thread or earlier in this one about the new restricted free agency contract/cap numbers and it would have worked out for nyk as year one 4.5 year 2 4.5 and then year 3 9 million. but for us it is 18.whatever/3 per year.


    this year a lot the savings of jose expiring will be eaten by the cap hold of demar or if the sign an extension his next contracts yearly figure will be his cap number.

  14. #54
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    the first one. yes he has a cap hit, every player counts to the cap. i posted a link in another thread or earlier in this one about the new restricted free agency contract/cap numbers and it would have worked out for nyk as year one 4.5 year 2 4.5 and then year 3 9 million. but for us it is 18.whatever/3 per year.


    this year a lot the savings of jose expiring will be eaten by the cap hold of demar or if the sign an extension his next contracts yearly figure will be his cap number.
    Sorry, I thought when you meant by cap hit, I thought you meant, it hits our cap badly that we don't have that flexibility anymore. That's why I elaborated into next Summer and our future cap. My bad.

    I remember someone saying there is a difference with re-signing a player with rights, and I believe Demar was that exception, or something of that sort... Sorry, also confusing myself there, but apparently, Demar's contract would not hit our cap room completely. :S :?

    Otherwise, I do agree, but remember, either Ed and Amir are expendable, allowing to free up at least 2$ million in cap, minus the approx. 8$ million in Demar's contract from Jose's expiring contract, the team would be left with 4$ million next season, not to mention we can still use the MLE? (correct me if I'm mistaken). Sorry, not totally certain on the financial part of the game.

  15. #55
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    +1

    Same with Amir Johnson's supposed 5 year, $35M deal.
    +1 again

    sometimes they just need to write something quickly in order to meet deadlines....The problem is a story builds around these fluff points and all of a sudden we are being lambasted for certain moves based on inaccurate information

  16. #56
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Because Colangelo is on a contract year.
    That's my whole point. This didn't happen for the future of the team. This happened for the future of Colangelo so let's stop clowning ourselves here.

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