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Thread: Can the new look LAKERS beat the HEAT?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i think the lakers are clearly the best team in the league right now. they could easily just have nash run pick and rolls with gasol and howard for 3 1/2 quarters then let kobe finish games and win 60+ games. that's not even hyperbole.
    @jerboat

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Who do you think wins the most games in the regular season? I'll take the Lakers
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  3. #23
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    Who do you think wins the most games in the regular season? I'll take the Lakers
    I would agree, but the original question, was can the Lakers beat the Heat? Yes, but put them in a 7 game series, and you never know what the result will be.

  4. #24
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I like the Lakers more. The Heat don't have the power to bang in the pain with those guys.
    Yep. the Heat beat OKC mainly because the Thunder couldn't punish Miami inside for playing small ball. Normally teams can only go small for short stretches. Ibaka/Perkins was absolutely no scoring threat and OKC had no counter. Gasol/Howard is a completely different story - elite big man offense.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Yep. the Heat beat OKC mainly because the Thunder couldn't punish Miami inside for playing small ball. Normally teams can only go small for short stretches. Ibaka/Perkins was absolutely no scoring threat and OKC had no counter. Gasol/Howard is a completely different story - elite big man offense.
    Bynum is a better offensive player than Dwight, while Gasol played high post play-making. Dynamics don't change, but there will be a lot of hacking, more so when they had Bynum, cause he could hit free-throws better than Dwight.

    OKC shut down Gasol/Bynum, because they prevented any inside looks. Who knows, Dwight obviously makes them better defensively, but offensively, there will be differences from day 1.

  6. #26
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Remember when the Lakers went out and got Karl Malone and Gary Payton and were supposedly a lock for another Championship?

    Steve Nash and Dwight Howard are WAY better than that.
    In Masai we Trust.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Remember when the Lakers went out and got Karl Malone and Gary Payton and were supposedly a lock for another Championship?

    Steve Nash and Dwight Howard are WAY better than that.
    The difference though is that LA team had both Kobe and Shaq in their primes. This LA team has an aging Kobe and a Gasol that has hit his peak. I think that LA team and their dysfunction would beat this LA team, and that LA team lost to Detroit in the finals. A Detroit team that wasn't even the best team in their conference going into the playoffs.

  8. #28
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Bynum is a better offensive player than Dwight, while Gasol played high post play-making. Dynamics don't change, but there will be a lot of hacking, more so when they had Bynum, cause he could hit free-throws better than Dwight.

    OKC shut down Gasol/Bynum, because they prevented any inside looks. Who knows, Dwight obviously makes them better defensively, but offensively, there will be differences from day 1.
    That's an interesting point. Although OKC matches up terribly with Miami, they still match up great even with the new look Lakers. Getting by OKC might be tougher than beating the Heat for LA.

    Dwight is much better offensively than people give him credit for. He's been averaging about 113 ORTG on 25% USG for the last 5 seasons. That is elite offense, and his USG% will go down. Yes, the free throws are problem down the stretch, but you put the ball in the hands of Kobe and Nash.

    The biggest problem might be who is actually in control of the team, especially when things go bad. Can Mike Brown really command the respect of those guys? Nash might end up being the defacto offensive coach by the end of the season, like what happened to Terry Porter in Phoenix.

  9. #29
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    That's an interesting point. Although OKC matches up terribly with Miami, they still match up great even with the new look Lakers. Getting by OKC might be tougher than beating the Heat for LA.

    Dwight is much better offensively than people give him credit for. He's been averaging about 113 ORTG on 25% USG for the last 5 seasons. That is elite offense, and his USG% will go down. Yes, the free throws are problem down the stretch, but you put the ball in the hands of Kobe and Nash.

    The biggest problem might be who is actually in control of the team, especially when things go bad. Can Mike Brown really command the respect of those guys? Nash might end up being the defacto offensive coach by the end of the season, like what happened to Terry Porter in Phoenix.
    Dwight is better than people do give him credit for, but offensively, IMO, Bynum has more of an offensive arsenal, and there's a reason he's even being considered as the second best center in the league. Nevertheless, Bynum and Dwight are NOT easy to guard.

    OKC seemed to be the better team, better match-ups on paper. Especially because of the big men in the paint. I was proven wrong. Even IF, Dwight and Pau are much better offensive weapons, Miami was able to take away post offense, and forced a very athletic and skilled team to take jump-shot AFTER jump-shot.

    Miami is an extremely good half-court defensive team, and LeBron is a one man transition defense. I think we are underrating how smart they are defensively. They don't have the big bodies to match with in the paint, but they clog the paint, and force teams to take outside looks. Individually, LeBron James and Dwayne Wade are premier defenders, not to mention LeBron's ability to guard anyone. Did we forget that LeBron is also a big body, 6'8/6'9 260 pounder? The guys is big, athletic, strong. If we are going basically on physical size (being everyone is talking about big bodies in the paint), LeBron should fit in the same mold.

    Offensively, I don't believe LA has the perimeter ability to guard Rashard and Bosh away from the paint. Battier, Lewis, Chalmers on the perimeter. LeBron and Wade inside, Bosh in the mid-post area. It will create tough ground to cover for ANY team. Peace and Dwight can't do everything.

    A game between these two teams will be nothing about individual game, more about which team finds a way to guard the other, and Miami has the edge in my opinion. All 5 guys will be able to guard individually, and an extremely smart defensive system.
    Last edited by ReubenJRD; Wed Aug 15th, 2012 at 03:54 PM.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Do you think Miami can go small against Lakers? What do you think their starting 5 would be?

    Bosh
    Lewis
    Lebron
    Wade
    Chalmers

    Allen & Battier first off the bench

    or maybe

    Bosh
    Lebron
    Battier
    Wade
    Chalmers

    w/ Allen and Lewis first off the bench.

    When push comes to shove (the 4th quarter of any finals game), will Miami have anyone other than Bosh playing center?


    When comparing teams I always like to match up position to position and see who I think is better at that match up. If we take the first line up I put up (feel free to call me on it, if you think they are likely to run with a different starting 5) then here's the match up (the player I think wins the match up in brackets)

    Dwight vs. Bosh (Dwight)
    Gasol vs. Lewis (Gasol)
    Metta vs. Lebron (Lebron)
    Kobe vs. Wade (push)
    Nash vs. Chalmers (Nash)

    figure I'll do with the other line up as well

    Dwight vs. Bosh (Dwight)
    Gasol vs. Lebron (Lebron)
    Metta vs. Battier (push?)
    Kobe vs. Wade (push)
    Nash vs. Chalmers (Nash)

    anyway not sure if this is useful at all (pretty sure it isn't). I think you have to different styles of play and the team that wins is going to be the team that is able to impose their will on the game. Match ups like these are the reason they have to play the game.

    I only wish that there was more competition in the East. The west has 3 legit teams LAL SAS OKC, with a couple of other teams that could get to the conference finals with a bit of luck LAC MEM.

    Without a season ending injury to Lebron, can you imagine anyone in the East beating Miami in a 7 game series? They've beat the Celtics the last two years, and I don't think Boston is better this year (although having bradley back could be a difference maker). Orlando lost dwight, Chicago may not have rose at all, or if they do he'll be coming off a serious injury. Atlanta didn't get better. Does anyone think that the Pacers could squeek out 4 games in a seven game series? Did I leave anyone else out? NY/Brooklyn?

    Maybe I shouldn't post in this thread because I always seem to go off on tangents, but it seems like you could move miami to the western conference and have a two tiered league, like an "A" league (Western Conference) and a "B" League (Eastern Conference). The West has been better than the East for soooo long, that I'm starting to wonder if there's some kind of advantage in playing in the western conference, like maybe you play better at 4pm than you would at 7pm, or you play better at 7pm than you would at 10pm?

    anyway tangent over.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  11. #31
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    Do you think Miami can go small against Lakers? What do you think their starting 5 would be?

    Bosh
    Lewis
    Lebron
    Wade
    Chalmers

    Allen & Battier first off the bench

    or maybe

    Bosh
    Lebron
    Battier
    Wade
    Chalmers

    w/ Allen and Lewis first off the bench.

    When push comes to shove (the 4th quarter of any finals game), will Miami have anyone other than Bosh playing center?


    When comparing teams I always like to match up position to position and see who I think is better at that match up. If we take the first line up I put up (feel free to call me on it, if you think they are likely to run with a different starting 5) then here's the match up (the player I think wins the match up in brackets)

    Dwight vs. Bosh (Dwight)
    Gasol vs. Lewis (Gasol)
    Metta vs. Lebron (Lebron)
    Kobe vs. Wade (push)
    Nash vs. Chalmers (Nash)

    figure I'll do with the other line up as well

    Dwight vs. Bosh (Dwight)
    Gasol vs. Lebron (Lebron)
    Metta vs. Battier (push?)
    Kobe vs. Wade (push)
    Nash vs. Chalmers (Nash)

    anyway not sure if this is useful at all (pretty sure it isn't). I think you have to different styles of play and the team that wins is going to be the team that is able to impose their will on the game. Match ups like these are the reason they have to play the game.

    I only wish that there was more competition in the East. The west has 3 legit teams LAL SAS OKC, with a couple of other teams that could get to the conference finals with a bit of luck LAC MEM.

    Without a season ending injury to Lebron, can you imagine anyone in the East beating Miami in a 7 game series? They've beat the Celtics the last two years, and I don't think Boston is better this year (although having bradley back could be a difference maker). Orlando lost dwight, Chicago may not have rose at all, or if they do he'll be coming off a serious injury. Atlanta didn't get better. Does anyone think that the Pacers could squeek out 4 games in a seven game series? Did I leave anyone else out? NY/Brooklyn?

    Maybe I shouldn't post in this thread because I always seem to go off on tangents, but it seems like you could move miami to the western conference and have a two tiered league, like an "A" league (Western Conference) and a "B" League (Eastern Conference). The West has been better than the East for soooo long, that I'm starting to wonder if there's some kind of advantage in playing in the western conference, like maybe you play better at 4pm than you would at 7pm, or you play better at 7pm than you would at 10pm?

    anyway tangent over.
    I think if we are going to see who wins the games(s) between Miami and LA, it will not be sorely based on individual match-ups. Miami's system is relied on their inside to outside ball movement offensively, and their smart defensive system.
    While LA runs the high post for Pau or Kobe, and defensively rely on their big men.

    In a game between Miami and LA, I would expect multiple cross-matching and defensive coverages on different players, positions etc. Individual match-up like Dwight vs. Bosh (Small ball lineup used in the Finals), would not result the final score of the game, it could be an impact, but like I said, a game with these two teams will require a variety of defensive coverages and schemes to guard one another.

    Miami's small ball vs. LA's paint presence. We saw something similar in the Finals last season, with Miami going up against OKC, and many watching the finals were proven wrong (I myself being an OKC rooter.) A lot of cross matching on LeBron. Using Harden, Thabo, Durant. Doubling the post, doubling the perimeter, but LeBron was so good and so strong, he was able to find others whether it was inside or outside. You cannot guard Miami one-on-one, but neither can you LA.

    (EDIT) :

    Chalmers, Wade, LeBron, Lewis, Bosh - Wade, Allen, LeBron, Battier, Bosh - Chalmers, Wade, LeBron, Battier, Bosh. Multiple lineups, and if needed, Battier and Lewis can be substituted for Joel Anthony if needed to bang on the inside. Miami has a variety of lineups they can throw at any team.

    Nash, Bryant, World Peace, Gasol, Howard will be he consensus lineup. It isn't awfully athletic like OKC or Miami, but it matches up in the paint, with a Spurs or OKC team. Just better than both.

    IMO, whether Miami was gonna play SAS or OKC, LeBron would've gotten his first ring either way.
    Last edited by ReubenJRD; Fri Aug 17th, 2012 at 05:07 PM.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I think if we are going to see who wins the games(s) between Miami and LA, it will not be sorely based on individual match-ups. Miami's system is relied on their inside to outside ball movement offensively, and their smart defensive system.
    While LA runs the high post for Pau or Kobe, and defensively rely on their big men.

    In a game between Miami and LA, I would expect multiple cross-matching and defensive coverages on different players, positions etc. Individual match-up like Dwight vs. Bosh (Small ball lineup used in the Finals), would not result the final score of the game, it could be an impact, but like I said, a game with these two teams will require a variety of defensive coverages and schemes to guard one another.
    Good points, and I'll be the first to admit that my positional comparisons are pretty useless.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  13. #33
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    Good points, and I'll be the first to admit that my positional comparisons are pretty useless.
    No, no. Positional comparisons are always useful. Gives you an observation of where guys will be matching/playing up in the game, defensive/offensive match-ups are different and change throughout the duration of the game.

    For many teams, the 4 and 5 are barely different, but in some systems such as our own, 4 and the 5 could largely depend on who is playing there, not so much who is guarding it.

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