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Thread: Early look at the ROY chances for the Raptors rookies...

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Plus at this stage in his career, a gentle breeze could push Davis out of the blocks...
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Not in terms of raw talent but keep in mind JV has been defending grown men while Anthony Davis has been defending kids.
    I HATE when people say this, it's never been the case where a rookie from Europe has come in and dominated from day one, no matter how many washed up and non-NBA caliber men they've played against.

    They said the same bullshit "he's played against men" line for Andrea and Darko and Tskikivilli and Lampe and Nowitzki and Yi and everyone else you wanna name who made it and who didn't. They all suck compared to NCAA guys in the first year(s) because it's a big transition and the game isn't the same.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Not in terms of raw talent but keep in mind JV has been defending grown men while Anthony Davis has been defending kids.
    What matters is this: By the end of this season, it will look like Davis has been defending kids all season, while JV will look like he's been defending grown men.

    Davis will be a runaway leader for ROY. JV will not come close. I'm not sure JV will even win ROY for the Raptors.
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  4. #24
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    I think JV will be in the top in terms of the rookie ladder, but not a consideration for ROY.

    Top 3 rookies will go...

    Davis, Lillard, Beal.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    ROY for either JV or Ross will be tough.. but I'm hoping that they at least get consideration for the all rookie team and the rookie/sophomore all-star game.

    I don't believe they decide the all rookie team based on position. So even with competition (Waiters/Beal/etc for Ross, Davis/Drummond/etc for JV) they should both have a chance of making the team (or the game).

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    they do to a certain degree, basically just lumping them in as C, F or G.
    @jerboat

  7. #27
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I HATE when people say this, it's never been the case where a rookie from Europe has come in and dominated from day one, no matter how many washed up and non-NBA caliber men they've played against.

    They said the same bullshit "he's played against men" line for Andrea and Darko and Tskikivilli and Lampe and Nowitzki and Yi and everyone else you wanna name who made it and who didn't. They all suck compared to NCAA guys in the first year(s) because it's a big transition and the game isn't the same.
    You missed a key point here. JV is not a finesse player and who said anything about "dominating"? Holster that gun there partner.
    Last edited by Apollo; Wed Aug 15th, 2012 at 04:13 PM. Reason: iphone

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I just can't see him getting it. Playing time is such a huge factor, and Davis is going to get a lot more, especially early on. By the time Jonas starts being able to play 25-30 minutes (if he gets there this season), I think Davis will have it locked up.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I also think Beal or Barnes have the best shot after that. I'm not sold on Lillard. He has to run an offense, something he struggled to do in shitty NCAA ball. Beal and Barnes could both get a decent amount of opportunity, especially Beal, being a shooter on a team that should run a lot of pick n roll with Wall and Nene.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Rookie 10 000 Hours's Avatar
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    Here are Okafor's stats from when he won ROY in 04-05:

    10.9 boards, 0.9 assists, 0.447 fg%, 0.8 steals, 1.7 blocks and 15.1 points all in 35.1 minutes per game.


    Amare's stats from when he won in 02-03:

    8.8 boards, 1.0 assists, 0.472 fg%, 0.8 steals, 1.1 blocks and 13.5 points in 31.3 minutes per game.


    There have been plenty of other bigs who've won the ROY, but I didn't look at stats before Tim Duncan won (his numbers were insane!). If we were to use Okafor and Amare as a bare minimum on what it would take for JV to have a legitimate shot at winning ROY, it seems to me that all it would take is for Jonas to be able to stay on the floor.

    I think if he get 30+ minutes a night, the only thing stopping him from being in the top 3 rookies is if other rookies step up majorly and accumulate awesome stats ala Duncan when he was a rook.

    In the end, fouls and improved play by any of the other current Raptor bigs could play a factor into Jonas' minutes.
    Walking like I'm already there.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I'd love to see a Raptor be considered for ROY.. but the NBA is going to be pumping "the brow" hard core. Davis is going to be their new poster child and as such they will do everything to market the kid and turn him into the next best thing (deservedly or not).

    That marketing power will be hard to over come for any of the other rooks. I think it can be done if Davis ends up being mediocre, but the fact that he was already on the USA squad has already given him a huge head start.
    This is the key .. he will really have to play bad not to win it. The marketing machine will be all over his intangibles, even if his stats are ok. Plus, he will likely get the most minutes of any rook out there .. so that helps a lot. JV's biggest problem (in general and in getting ROY votes) is that he wont see enough minutes due to foul trouble...

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Don't worry, Chuck Swirsky will still vote for Bargnani...
    time to let that go .. especially when AB would have finished 2nd in the voting easily even if Chuck had not voted him in at all ..

  13. #33
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    I think it's a stretch for Lillard or JV to get ROY. Typically it goes to the scorers, and unless JV can does some crazy things defensively/on the boards or Lillard dishes out some crazy assists, they ain't gonna win it. I see JV putting up numbers around the 6/7 range. Anthony Davis and Beal are my best bets, I can see Beal scoring 14+ with the touches he's sure to get, and Davis has the hype and the free-reign to let his talent loose (I can see the voters weighing his defensive contributions more than the average pick because of his hype towards ROY). Though I am afraid of Davis' size (only Howard, Bogut and Pekovic recently provided their teams good value in their first season, and they're all big boys) and how he and Ryan Anderson fit together, I believe Davis will get enough looks on the fast break, alley-oops, and putbacks to give him enough PPG to give him a good shot for ROY. Harrison Barnes might not even start, and if he does, he may not get many touches as the #1 and #2 scoring options are cemented in for GS. MKG and Thomas Robinson are odd-balls, they could surprise, but I believe they're more energy players who won't put up first-year numbers (though I like Robinson's future prospects playing alongside Cousins).

  14. #34
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    Quote Kadazzle wrote: View Post
    I think it's a stretch for Lillard or JV to get ROY. Typically it goes to the scorers, and unless JV can does some crazy things defensively/on the boards or Lillard dishes out some crazy assists, they ain't gonna win it. I see JV putting up numbers around the 6/7 range. Anthony Davis and Beal are my best bets, I can see Beal scoring 14+ with the touches he's sure to get, and Davis has the hype and the free-reign to let his talent loose (I can see the voters weighing his defensive contributions more than the average pick because of his hype towards ROY). Though I am afraid of Davis' size (only Howard, Bogut and Pekovic recently provided their teams good value in their first season, and they're all big boys) and how he and Ryan Anderson fit together, I believe Davis will get enough looks on the fast break, alley-oops, and putbacks to give him enough PPG to give him a good shot for ROY. Harrison Barnes might not even start, and if he does, he may not get many touches as the #1 and #2 scoring options are cemented in for GS. MKG and Thomas Robinson are odd-balls, they could surprise, but I believe they're more energy players who won't put up first-year numbers (though I like Robinson's future prospects playing alongside Cousins).
    Pekovic is a NBA sophmore, he just exploded in his second season a la Jeremy Lin. And Lillard is a big time scorer so I see him leading the rookies in PPG

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    My top 5, in order:

    Brad Beal
    Brow
    JV
    TRob
    Lillard
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

  16. #36
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    Did paul gosol win ROY ?

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Father rev wrote: View Post
    Did paul gosol win ROY ?
    Yes, in 2001 where he averaged 17 pts, 9 rebs and 2 blks, while shooting 52%. I can't see Jonas putting up those kind of numbers.

    In all honesty, I'll be happier if Jonas makes the all-rookie team, which is voted by people who actually know basketball (i.e. NBA coaches).

    The ROY is voted by sportswriters...
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  18. #38
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    Beal is going to be better than Wall and is going to be ROY

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Starter Edgar's Avatar
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    Just a though - Jonas is a project, albeit a very promising one, who will likely take the entirety of his rookie contract to show the type of player he can be. If he is as good as Gortat at the end of his rookie scale (approx 24y/o) we should be praising the pick.
    When Tom Chambers dunks an NBA player gets their hops...

  20. #40
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    Quote Edgar wrote: View Post
    Just a though - Jonas is a project, albeit a very promising one, who will likely take the entirety of his rookie contract to show the type of player he can be...
    Who knows? But JV looks hungry and sounds like he is smart. I think he has a real desire to excel. Most of the things that could hold back him being a very high caliber player are learnable/trainable. He will increase in size and strength by simply working out and eating right. It just so happens that the Raps have one of the best strength and conditioning coaches in the world. He already has very good fundamentals with his shot. He needs to work on his post up game and making sure he can use either hand with authority. The fouling out early is eminently correctable.

    I don't believe we need to wait 4 years for this kid.

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