View Poll Results: Which Power Forward goes?

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  • Ed Davis

    14 21.54%
  • Amir Johnson

    39 60.00%
  • Linas Kleiza

    4 6.15%
  • Quincy Acy (D-League?)

    5 7.69%
  • Andrea Bargnani

    3 4.62%
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Thread: The lingering question... Which PF goes?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Rookie knowledgep's Avatar
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    I vote Amir to be traded, he brings more value to opposing teams right now, but I believe Ed has a higher ceiling and actually reminds me of a young Amir. I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised with what Ed brings this year. I'm guessing 10 pts 8 boards for the season but a strong end to it bringing up his numbers.

  2. #22
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote knowledgep wrote: View Post
    I vote Amir to be traded, he brings more value to opposing teams right now, but I believe Ed has a higher ceiling and actually reminds me of a young Amir. I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised with what Ed brings this year. I'm guessing 10 pts 8 boards for the season but a strong end to it bringing up his numbers.
    10 points and 8 boards off the bench? Also more/similar production than what Valanciunas is estimated to have? I'm thinking similar numbers, but better defensive numbers and FG%.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    10 points and 8 boards off the bench? Also more/similar production than what Valanciunas is estimated to have? I'm thinking similar numbers, but better defensive numbers and FG%.
    considering his he averages 7 and 7 for his two years in the league, 10 and 8 is not a huge jump. An increase in minutes to around 26-27 would probably be all that is needed to accomplish this.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    voted excuse boy amir. like davis and think he will grow into the reliable consitent presence off the bench we need. amir can have a great game one day and then disappear for games and come and have another one. and always with the bullshit. had a bad week cause of the girlfriend. had a great game that is the kind of game i can expect from now on. girlfriend acting up again or i would be playing great.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Sadly, I think it might be Ed because Amir is already tied to a contract which makes him less desireable in a trade, and frankly we don't know if Ed will sign with us long term once his rookie contract is up. Trading Ed is the safe bet.

  6. #26
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    considering his he averages 7 and 7 for his two years in the league, 10 and 8 is not a huge jump. An increase in minutes to around 26-27 would probably be all that is needed to accomplish this.
    Do you think Ed Davis deserve 26-27 minutes a game?

    While a few posters say how they saw some improvement in his offensive game in the Summer League, my main concern is Ed was always lost in defensive rotations last year. Until that improves - and it may with a full training camp - I'd rather see his minutes limited 18-20 minutes a game.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Do you think Ed Davis deserve 26-27 minutes a game?

    While a few posters say how they saw some improvement in his offensive game in the Summer League, my main concern is Ed was always lost in defensive rotations last year. Until that improves - and it may with a full training camp - I'd rather see his minutes limited 18-20 minutes a game.
    So you want him to play 4-6 minutes less than he did in his first two years, no room for improvement in year 3?

  8. #28
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    voted excuse boy amir. like davis and think he will grow into the reliable consitent presence off the bench we need. amir can have a great game one day and then disappear for games and come and have another one. and always with the bullshit. had a bad week cause of the girlfriend. had a great game that is the kind of game i can expect from now on. girlfriend acting up again or i would be playing great.
    or maybe amir is just too knackered after jerking off to porn too much

  9. #29
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    Those who read stats like thenbageek would note:
    Ed Davis: +6 wins in a season
    Amir Johnson: +6 wins
    Lina's Kleiza: +1 win
    Andrea Bargnani: -1 win (it was -6 wins the year before)

    Seems like a pretty strong argument to keep both Amir and Ed, and dump Andrea ... who might fetch the most in a trade, as well.


    P.S. But of course, stats are for losers like the San Antonio Spurs, and winners like the Raptors know that Andrea is our star.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    So you want him to play 4-6 minutes less than he did in his first two years, no room for improvement in year 3?
    The question is, what would've Davis' minutes looked like last year if Bargnani never went down?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  11. #31
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    So you want him to play 4-6 minutes less than he did in his first two years, no room for improvement in year 3?
    I am not convinced Ed Davis will ever be an above average backup-quality player so I have no problem whatsoever if coach Casey reduces his playing time.

    In my opinion, Ed is currently the 4th most talented big on the team. I rate Andrea, Jonas, and Amir ahead of him and all three have plenty of room for further development.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Rookie 10 000 Hours's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    I am not convinced Ed Davis will ever be an above average backup-quality player so I have no problem whatsoever if coach Casey reduces his playing time.

    In my opinion, Ed is currently the 4th most talented big on the team. I rate Andrea, Jonas, and Amir ahead of him and all three have plenty of room for further development.
    The NBA is a business and organizations want to do what they think is best for their team/brand. If playing Davis less means improving the Raptors, I'm all for it and I bet Casey would be too.

    I know it seems as if Davis hasn't had the right training camp (injury, lockout) to showcase his talent and I think Casey and management will give him this upcoming camp as a last chance. He needs to show he's improved and that he's becoming stronger. If Acy, Jonas and Amir all outshine and out-hustle Ed, then you have to figure he's on his way out.

    Also, Ed is young. How much younger do the Raptors want to be? I know Amir is still very young, but he's been in the league since he left high school which would make him a vet IMO.

    Ed should be PF to go, but they won't hesitate to trade Amir if his higher salary helps facilitate a trade for Toronto's elusive stud SF.
    Last edited by 10 000 Hours; Fri Aug 24th, 2012 at 08:21 PM. Reason: used wrong word
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  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    I am not convinced Ed Davis will ever be an above average backup-quality player so I have no problem whatsoever if coach Casey reduces his playing time.

    In my opinion, Ed is currently the 4th most talented big on the team. I rate Andrea, Jonas, and Amir ahead of him and all three have plenty of room for further development.
    +1 on the ratings.

    I like Amir more for a variety of reasons:

    1) Amir just turned 25 (ED just turned 23 - i.e. both still young),
    2) Amir, imo, realizes his role (backup and spot starter) in the NBA and realizes he can make a career doing it. ED still trying to prove his worth and likely considers himself better than he is (big and unsubstantiated opinion on my part). I think this comes down to late 2nd round nobody pick out of high school versus lottery 'man dad was in the league' pick out of major NCAA program.
    3) Amir fits in to the flow of the game. ED seems to force everything.
    4) Amir still managed to contribute despite coming off injury/surgery last year. He looks jacked this year.

    Hardly a scientific or evidence filled post on my part. I just like Amir's game. He is perfect for a backup NBA big, in my opinion.

  14. #34
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Sadly, I think it might be Ed because Amir is already tied to a contract which makes him less desireable in a trade, and frankly we don't know if Ed will sign with us long term once his rookie contract is up. Trading Ed is the safe bet.
    Trade Amir, let Davis walk. Easy as that, especially if Davis doesn't have huge improvements. All the better, to make for PT for Acy, and another 4.

    Trade Amir's long term contract, and let Davis walk and have open cap space to sign someone better, or make a move with the flexibility.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Rookie knowledgep's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Trade Amir, let Davis walk. Easy as that, especially if Davis doesn't have huge improvements. All the better, to make for PT for Acy, and another 4.

    Trade Amir's long term contract, and let Davis walk and have open cap space to sign someone better, or make a move with the flexibility.
    Why would you let Davis walk for nothing?

    He will be getting burn when Amir and Val are both on the bench in foul trouble and making the most outta his minutes.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Starter Mess's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I like Amir more for a variety of reasons:

    1) Amir just turned 25 (ED just turned 23 - i.e. both still young),
    2) Amir, imo, realizes his role (backup and spot starter) in the NBA and realizes he can make a career doing it. ED still trying to prove his worth and likely considers himself better than he is (big and unsubstantiated opinion on my part). I think this comes down to late 2nd round nobody pick out of high school versus lottery 'man dad was in the league' pick out of major NCAA program.
    3) Amir fits in to the flow of the game. ED seems to force everything.
    4) Amir still managed to contribute despite coming off injury/surgery last year. He looks jacked this year.

    Hardly a scientific or evidence filled post on my part. I just like Amir's game. He is perfect for a backup NBA big, in my opinion.
    Interesting opinion. I don't recall Ed forcing everything, but I'd say when he did it had more to do with his lack of experience than ED thinking that he's entitled to it because his dad was in the league.

    Does it come down to where they were picked in the draft? Or does it come down to:

    Amir -> realizes his role -> has long term contract

    ED -> trying to prove his worth -> has no long term contract

    I also imagine the coaches might have been in ED's ear telling him that he needed to be a little more aggressive too. There were times when it seemed he was afraid to even look at the basket when he had the ball.

    Like you said they are both young but Amir has 5 more years worth of practice and (I'm guessing) 7 more training camps than ED in the NBA. So if ED looks a little less comfortable on offense and gets confused more in the middle of rotating on defense, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Now I know the Raptors can't wait 5 years to see if he gets to Amir's level. But they can give him a full training camp and a full season and I think he'll be very close, if not better, than Amir. And if he flatlines this year, then I'll stop making excuses for him.

    But yes, I like Amir and he does look jacked this summer.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mess wrote: View Post
    Interesting opinion. I don't recall Ed forcing everything, but I'd say when he did it had more to do with his lack of experience than ED thinking that he's entitled to it because his dad was in the league.

    Does it come down to where they were picked in the draft? Or does it come down to:

    Amir -> realizes his role -> has long term contract

    ED -> trying to prove his worth -> has no long term contract

    I also imagine the coaches might have been in ED's ear telling him that he needed to be a little more aggressive too. There were times when it seemed he was afraid to even look at the basket when he had the ball.

    Like you said they are both young but Amir has 5 more years worth of practice and (I'm guessing) 7 more training camps than ED in the NBA. So if ED looks a little less comfortable on offense and gets confused more in the middle of rotating on defense, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Now I know the Raptors can't wait 5 years to see if he gets to Amir's level. But they can give him a full training camp and a full season and I think he'll be very close, if not better, than Amir. And if he flatlines this year, then I'll stop making excuses for him.

    But yes, I like Amir and he does look jacked this summer.
    That is a good point.

  18. #38
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote knowledgep wrote: View Post
    Why would you let Davis walk for nothing?

    He will be getting burn when Amir and Val are both on the bench in foul trouble and making the most outta his minutes.
    All depends on how he progresses. Seems to be the same opinion on Derozan with many posters on this forum... If no significant improvements, (whether it was said for DeRozan, Bargnani, Davis), let them walk.

    Originally I said trade Amir, but whichever one shines the best is the one keeping for the future seasons. Although, if we could keep both, I would. BUT, again, depends on the progression. We know what Amir can do, and Ed is still quite a bit unproven.

  19. #39
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    Neither one is exceptional. They are both good back-ups. Davis I think, still has some ways to go before he reaches maximum potential while Amir has almost reached his ceiling. Raps would love to get rid of Amir's contract and keep Davis who will come much cheaper but 'can they' is the big question. Don't know if they can or not but if anyone can pull it off it's BC.
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  20. #40
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    Neither one is exceptional. They are both good back-ups. Davis I think, still has some ways to go before he reaches maximum potential while Amir has almost reached his ceiling. Raps would love to get rid of Amir's contract and keep Davis who will come much cheaper but 'can they' is the big question. Don't know if they can or not but if anyone can pull it off it's BC.
    You have to keep in mind though, Amir at this moment is the harder worker. Great motor, and good chemistry with every single guy on the team. He doesn't have the potential Ed has, but Amir is one of those guys that every team - whether championship calibre, or lottery - will want on their team, and is a guy that will play good minutes.

    Most people are going after the flexibility at this moment, but flexibility is supposed to translate to the on court production. Amir does more of that, and works harder for that.

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