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  1. #1
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    Default TRADE Raptors-Utah

    Since Jose is clearly the only one who BC and Co. are looking to trade and have made it very clear that a trade will be made only if it's beneficial, here's a proposal.

    Raptors trade Jose Calderon, Ed Davis and two 2nd rounders to Utah for Paul Milsap and Earl Watson.

    Trade is made on the condition that Milsap signs an extension.

    Milsap bolsters the Raps front court and that's an understatement. Bargnani, Milsap, JV and Amir would make up one of the best front-courts. E Watson along with Lucas would form an average back up for Lowry. Not the same as Lowry/Jose and that's OK for now. It can be taken care of in the off-season as Watson becomes a FA.

    In Jose, Jazz get a PG who's better than Mo Williams and can therefore start. If rumors are right, they were interested in Jose at the beginning of the off-season. Ed Davis is no Milsap but bolstering the PG position more than makes up for that. Besides Ed is a solid future back up if not a starter. Jose's contract expires at the end of the season which gives them the option of either re-signing him or not, depending on whether he(Jose) worked out or not.

    Raptors will not have the financial flexibility that they would have if Jose remains and becomes a FA but for Milsap, I think it's worth it.

    Obviously Raps will have to move Bargnani to Center to accommodate Milsap. Not his preferred position but we'll have a much more effective front court combination.

    A line up of Lowry, Derozan, Fields, Milsap and Bargnani with Watson, Lucas, Ross, Klieza, Anderson, Amir, Gray and JV coming off the bench would be a formidable one. One that increases our chances of contending for a play-off spot by 3 games according to the trade-machine.
    Last edited by Eric Akshinthala; Sat Aug 25th, 2012 at 10:40 AM.
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  2. #2
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    We fleeced them over the Araujo for Humphries trade, there is no way we can fleece them again especially consider Millsap could potentially be an allstar this year. However, Millsap would help us immediately, i wouldn't mind trading Bargs for the guy, the guy is a beast especially on the boards.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    We fleeced them over the Araujo for Humphries trade, there is no way we can fleece them again especially consider Millsap could potentially be an allstar this year. However, Millsap would help us immediately, i wouldn't mind trading Bargs for the guy, the guy is a beast especially on the boards.
    I agreed with you until you mentioned trading Andrea for Milsap.... That's terrible for us. Keep in mind as well Andrea potentially could be an all-star this year as well.

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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I agreed with you until you mentioned trading Andrea for Milsap.... That's terrible for us. Keep in mind as well Andrea potentially could be an all-star this year as well.
    Andrea for Milsap=Offense for Defense. Can't be done this year 'cause we'll be sacrificing our limited offense for defense which is not a big concern considering the additions of Lowry, Fields, Ross and Acy.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    Andrea for Milsap=Offense for Defense. Can't be done this year 'cause we'll be sacrificing our limited offense for defense which is not a big concern considering the additions of Lowry, Fields, Ross and Acy.
    Milsap isn't a great defender. Based on Andrea's 13 games of healthy play, he is none the less as good as Milsap defensively.

    In my opinion, Milsap wouldn't make us an any better team than Andrea would if healthy.

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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Milsap isn't a great defender. Based on Andrea's 13 games of healthy play, he is none the less as good as Milsap defensively.

    In my opinion, Milsap wouldn't make us an any better team than Andrea would if healthy.
    You're absolutely right. Andrea and Milsap are equal in terms of talent and it doesn't make sense to swap one for the other. By defense by the way, I meant rebounding.
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    Andrea for Milsap=Offense for Defense. Can't be done this year 'cause we'll be sacrificing our limited offense for defense which is not a big concern considering the additions of Lowry, Fields, Ross and Acy.
    Just out of curiosity, why are you so high on Acy?

    Only a small proportion of the players selected in the second round become good players and I am curious to understand why you appear to believe the dice lords will look kindly on Acy.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Just out of curiosity, why are you so high on Acy?

    Only a small proportion of the players selected in the second round become good players and I am curious to understand why you appear to believe the dice lords will look kindly on Acy.
    Acy has that type of personality and on-court character that he could be in the league for years just because he's such a hard worker. Whether backing up at the 4, sitting at the end of the bench, etc. If His actual basketball skill develops into something useful, other than his ability to dunk everything, and rebound, is to be seen.

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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Just out of curiosity, why are you so high on Acy?

    Only a small proportion of the players selected in the second round become good players and I am curious to understand why you appear to believe the dice lords will look kindly on Acy.

    If my post suggests that I'm high on Acy you're misunderstanding. I included him in the list of defensive minded players because he is supposed to be one(defensive minded). Doesn't mean I'm high on him.
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    Quote tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    We fleeced them over the Araujo for Humphries trade, there is no way we can fleece them again especially consider Millsap could potentially be an allstar this year. However, Millsap would help us immediately, i wouldn't mind trading Bargs for the guy, the guy is a beast especially on the boards.
    After all the criticism you've taken, you are quite gracious in your criticism. Admirable. The above is your opinion and I respect it.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    I don't think Utah would ever do this trade anyways. Completely one sided. Although Milsap is a 4, I imagine he could play out of position at the 3 and have a huge lineup.

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    I think this is the year that either Millsap or Jefferson get traded, as they are both on expiring contracts and Favors looks poised to become an absolute beast. While I do agree that Millsap is the most likely, I assume they would want a lot more than Calderon in return. Davis isn't worth much as an add-in since Utah is already so deep at C/PF, nor are the 2 2nd round picks. I think Utah could get significantly more for Millsap elsewhere.

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    I like Millsap. He can give you 16pts/8rbs a game, and appears to be pretty solid (ie, no character issues that I'm aware of). His Win share is always fairly high as well (not that this really means much).

    But he is a free agent after this season, and I'm not sure if he'd want to stick around in Toronto. He is not a max guy but would be in the $10-$12M range a year when he re-ups I think based on his numbers.

    Toronto doesn't need another PF so it doesn't seem to be a good match. I'd be okay with a Bargnani/Millsap swap but I'm not sure if Utah would and then there is no guarantee that Millsap doesn't resign with Toronto which could be like losing Bargnani for nothing (I'm not a big Bargnani fan, but I'd want something tangible to come back for him, not just cap space).

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    Totally agree with planetmars. I'd love Millsap on the Raps, but I can't see any reason why he'd sign an extension to join another jammed front court when he could get a big payday to be a starter on a team like Orlando or Phoenix.

    I think BC will most likely wait and see how injuries, etc, set the tone for the season on other teams, and deal from a position of strength. I honestly think Jose'd be a great fit for the Knicks if either Felton disappoints or Kidd gets injured, both of which are very possible. He'd get the ball to 'Melo and Amare where they want it and knock down the occasional 3. Maybe if we're lucky J.R. Smith will fall out of favour and we could snake his very favourable contract.

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    Quote dunphyj wrote: View Post
    Totally agree with planetmars. I'd love Millsap on the Raps, but I can't see any reason why he'd sign an extension to join another jammed front court when he could get a big payday to be a starter on a team like Orlando or Phoenix.

    I think BC will most likely wait and see how injuries, etc, set the tone for the season on other teams, and deal from a position of strength. I honestly think Jose'd be a great fit for the Knicks if either Felton disappoints or Kidd gets injured, both of which are very possible. He'd get the ball to 'Melo and Amare where they want it and knock down the occasional 3. Maybe if we're lucky J.R. Smith will fall out of favour and we could snake his very favourable contract.
    It would be hard for the Knicks to take back a $10M salary since they are pretty capped out with 3 big contracts (Melo, Amare and Chandler). There is only really one Knick that I like and that's Shumpert.. but he doesn't make enough, and I doubt the Knicks would trade him anyway. Plus they are a division rival. Not sure if Bryan would want to give Jose to them.

    Ever since Matt brought it up in a different thread, I feel that Cleveland might be the best place for Jose. They don't really have a backup PG since they traded Sessions, and Jose would fit nicely next to Irving. He would give them a veteran presence as well. Plus Cleveland will have the most cap space in the season and could easily acquire Jose without having to give up anything but a pick (and they have plenty of those to give back). Once Jose's contract expires Cleveland would get back the cap space they'd want to get a max guy in the off season if they wanted to.

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    It would be hard for the Knicks to take back a $10M salary since they are pretty capped out with 3 big contracts (Melo, Amare and Chandler). There is only really one Knick that I like and that's Shumpert.. but he doesn't make enough, and I doubt the Knicks would trade him anyway. Plus they are a division rival. Not sure if Bryan would want to give Jose to them.

    Ever since Matt brought it up in a different thread, I feel that Cleveland might be the best place for Jose. They don't really have a backup PG since they traded Sessions, and Jose would fit nicely next to Irving. He would give them a veteran presence as well. Plus Cleveland will have the most cap space in the season and could easily acquire Jose without having to give up anything but a pick (and they have plenty of those to give back). Once Jose's contract expires Cleveland would get back the cap space they'd want to get a max guy in the off season if they wanted to.
    I don't really think Cleveland would be a good option for Calderon, especially since they are rebuilding, not looking to win now. However, when looking at their roster, I also notice that they really don't have any decent PF behind Thompson (assuming Verejao starts at C with Zeller backing him up)... unless you consider Leuer, Samuels or Harangody to be decent. If Calderon might not be enough to net a 1st round pick, I wonder if Davis might (with or without Calderon)?

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I don't really think Cleveland would be a good option for Calderon, especially since they are rebuilding, not looking to win now. However, when looking at their roster, I also notice that they really don't have any decent PF behind Thompson (assuming Verejao starts at C with Zeller backing him up)... unless you consider Leuer, Samuels or Harangody to be decent. If Calderon might not be enough to net a 1st round pick, I wonder if Davis might (with or without Calderon)?
    I don't think Jose would tack on too many wins for a club. Instead he'd give a team a veteran presence that could be helpful for a young PG like Irving. Similar to what Jamison and Parker did last year for them. There aren't too many teams that will have the cap space to take Jose without giving back an asset other than a pick (which is basically what Bryan wants). Rebuilding teams could use veteran guys with good character.

    The problem with trading Davis for a pick is that Davis was a 13th pick and has a favourable (ie, rookie) contract. Trading him for a low pick (like Miami's or LA's) would be a bad trade, IMO. And I doubt Cleveland gives up their potential lottery pick for a backup PF and/or a backup PG.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I don't really think Cleveland would be a good option for Calderon, especially since they are rebuilding, not looking to win now. However, when looking at their roster, I also notice that they really don't have any decent PF behind Thompson (assuming Verejao starts at C with Zeller backing him up)... unless you consider Leuer, Samuels or Harangody to be decent. If Calderon might not be enough to net a 1st round pick, I wonder if Davis might (with or without Calderon)?
    Cleveland is the other team I watch and I would be shocked if they traded for Jose Calderon. If it happens, I would expect it would be for something like expiring contracts and a 2nd round pick.

    Kyrie Irving can play 38+mpg a game when healthy. Playing Calderon at the 2 with Irving would not work as Irving is currently a (much) worse defender than Calderon. We tried that experiment with Sessiions last year and it was very painful to watch on the defensive end.

    The Cavaliers will probably start the season with Varejao at center and Thompson at power forward. Thompson, Varejao, and Zeller are all capable of playing center and power forward. In my opinion, Samuels is no better nor worse than Aaron Gray, just different. Fifth bigs except Samulels will likely be exposed for having to play too many minutes.

    Ed Davis is not currently worth a potential lottery pick, be it from Cleveland or any other team. He just has not been that good and did not show much progress in his second year. While he has valid excuses - injuries and no training camp - for the slow progression, there was so little progression that I am far from convinced he will ever start in this league.

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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Cleveland is the other team I watch and I would be shocked if they traded for Jose Calderon. If it happens, I would expect it would be for something like expiring contracts and a 2nd round pick.

    Kyrie Irving can play 38+mpg a game when healthy. Playing Calderon at the 2 with Irving would not work as Irving is currently a (much) worse defender than Calderon. We tried that experiment with Sessiions last year and it was very painful to watch on the defensive end.
    I am glad my eyes did not deceived me.

    Kyrie Irving was rated the worst defensive player in the league with at least 300 plays defended according to Synergy. Having said that, KI remains a very productive player because he is much better on the offensive court than he sucks in the defensive end. A great talent and I would not be surprised if he wins a scoring title in 2 or 3 years.

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    If we're talking a 3rd of the season in, when the cap hit for NY would be a little softened and the media has sharpened their knives, I could see NY giving BC a call (can you tell I'm not high on Felton?). That being said, I agree there's not much else there other than Shumpert (coming off a major injury) which is why I mentioned J.R. Smith. Plus, BC loves his (useless) trade exemptions...

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