Interesting article on DeRozan

[malefax]

I'm more upbeat than this guy, but he gives an informed outsiders take and the concerns he raises are legitimate. The whole series is worth a read if you have some time and need an offseason NBA fix. He's also done Bargnani already.

http://gothicginobili.com/?p=4051#more-4051

[Puffer]

Interesting read, on both players (look for "Player Capsules" upper right hand side). He says what many on this site have been saying, for both players. Also holds out the potential improvements from both players as rays of hope.

[Matt52]

thanks for sharing that.

I don't see much to disagree with.

[stretch]

Excellent insight into DeRozan. Thanks.

I found Kleiza's capsule at http://gothicginobili.com/?p=3733

Bargnani at http://gothicginobili.com/?p=3929

former Raptor Gary Forbes at http://gothicginobili.com/?p=3818

[ReubenJRD]

A lot of "Derozan isn't good enough, YET" implied in the capsule. I do agree with a lot, but potentially being a much better player this Summer makes me quite optimistic.

Derozan already looked good in some instances with ball-handling and range in the Drew League - not NBA competition throughout the entire game - but if those individual things carry to training camp, he'll continue to tighten them up.

Does anyone know which coach(es) is/are responsible for working with guards? I'm thinking Alvin Williams and Johnny Davis here.

[thead]

I am souring on DeRozan a bit. I'm hopeful this is a good year for him

[Matt52]

I am souring on DeRozan a bit. I'm hopeful this is a good year for him

This is what all the potential eventually leads to, in my opinion:

the make or break season.

This season is going to determine his future in the NBA. Is he a legit player or is he one of the dime a dozen wings in the league?

One thing I feel confident in saying is few players gets the opportunities to showcase their talent like DeRozan has.

For the record, I really do hope he puts it all together and becomes a solid piece of the Raptors for years to come (but while hopeful I am not optimistic).

[Blacklash2k4]

This is what all the potential eventually leads to, in my opinion:

the make or break season.

This season is going to determine his future in the NBA. Is he a legit player or is he one of the dime a dozen wings in the league?

One thing I feel confident in saying is few players gets the opportunities to showcase their talent like DeRozan has.

For the record, I really do hope he puts it all together and becomes a solid piece of the Raptors for years to come (but while hopeful I am not optimistic).

Well I couldn't say that it's a make or break season in the sense that it would drastically change his career in the NBA (Mainly cuz he's still 23 years old), but rather this is a make or break season in the sense that it would decide whether he stays with the Raptors to get traded out by the trade deadline. I feel like at the age of 23, it's still too early to determine his future in the NBA. There is still the possibility of improvement at his age especially in the 3pt and defensive compartment. But I do agree that I'm not too optimistic on his improvement, but I definitely wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

[Matt52]

Well I couldn't say that it's a make or break season in the sense that it would drastically change his career in the NBA (Mainly cuz he's still 23 years old), but rather this is a make or break season in the sense that it would decide whether he stays with the Raptors to get traded out by the trade deadline. I feel like at the age of 23, it's still too early to determine his future in the NBA. There is still the possibility of improvement at his age especially in the 3pt and defensive compartment. But I do agree that I'm not too optimistic on his improvement, but I definitely wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

I agree with what you are saying but don't..... lol - if that makes any sense at all.

I don't think (and I could very well be wrong) that he'll get the opportunity(ies) elsewhere that he has in Toronto. That is why I call it make or break. I also don't think he'll get the money elsewhere that he could in Toronto due to the RFA rules unless another team pulls a 'Landry'.

He is still young at 23 but we are talking about this season and after this season he'll be 24. I am a firm believer bigs take a little longer to develop (please no one bring up Bargnani!) than wings. While he is 23 he has had 3 years as an NBA starter and again I keep coming back to the opportunities he has had to play - through good times and bad; through slumps and mistakes; offensively and defensively.

I do hope all of this is a moot point and he shuts me up with his play. With Lowry and Bargnani hopefully healthy and playing to the full capabilities they have shown, scoring and offense are not even the issue with DD (although efficiency would be a minor one). I want to see him become a much better than average defender on the wing.

I REALLY am rooting for him though. Despite my worthless internet ramblings on his play, he does seem like a good person.

[minks77]

first off Matt, no one here would categorize your ramblings as worthless! A lil brown nosin but still, you keep it balanced and humble despite the fact you rep for the company line whereas the rest of us just pay bills.

but really. DeMar has improved, is not a finished prospect but after 3 years I have exactly the same opinion I did when he was drafted: role playing scorer in the mould of Luscious Harris or Kerry kitties. His mid range is more money then sonny's was (which was a thing of beauty) and his FT is a gem. He just needs to somehow make the refs open their eyes. He's easily the most overlooked slasher in the L and he works hard to get those calls. Will he ever be a 3 pt threat? maybe in 3-5 years but it's a long way away. Will he ever be able to create(aka h the handle question)? I dunno. Don't care.

DeMar has a very effective skill set. At the moment he's a 3rd option on a good team. His off the ball skills are evident if you watch the games but he's not been surrounded by people good enough or a system good enough to take advantage. I really think his ceiling is as a mo Pete or something if he can ever figure out the old man game but he's a very good piece. Not an all star, not a franchise player but he's a solid 10+year NBAer IMO. I really hope someone else overpays him but if he signs for an upper tier contract I wouldn't be unhappy. Good guy, healthy so far, hard worker. Even tho I think hes 3rd tier I'd give him a second tier contract just cuz he's our boy. And the team has asked far too much of him so far. Considering his college career (only came on at the end) I'm firmly a supporter.

Besides, everything other than scoring is Bargs level. If we waited 5 years for him I'm fine to see how Demar does cuttin to the mid post off a JV roll with Q Ross in a corner and KLow7 ready to crash hard. Can't wait.

[akashsingh]

derozan is going to be a stud, he just needs to pump up those quads, gain some explosiveness and tighten up his dribble (which he appears to be doing), hopefully he can prove this matt52 armchair douche wrong, but he's so far up BC's a s s he'll say he saw it happening a mile away. no wonder he got demoted from moderator......for being wrong all the time about EVERYTHING. But remember (the turd will remind you) it's just his opinion.....

[Matt52]

first off Matt, no one here would categorize your ramblings as worthless! A lil brown nosin but still, you keep it balanced and humble despite the fact you rep for the company line whereas the rest of us just pay bills.

but really. DeMar has improved, is not a finished prospect but after 3 years I have exactly the same opinion I did when he was drafted: role playing scorer in the mould of Luscious Harris or Kerry kitties. His mid range is more money then sonny's was (which was a thing of beauty) and his FT is a gem. He just needs to somehow make the refs open their eyes. He's easily the most overlooked slasher in the L and he works hard to get those calls. Will he ever be a 3 pt threat? maybe in 3-5 years but it's a long way away. Will he ever be able to create(aka h the handle question)? I dunno. Don't care.

DeMar has a very effective skill set. At the moment he's a 3rd option on a good team. His off the ball skills are evident if you watch the games but he's not been surrounded by people good enough or a system good enough to take advantage. I really think his ceiling is as a mo Pete or something if he can ever figure out the old man game but he's a very good piece. Not an all star, not a franchise player but he's a solid 10+year NBAer IMO. I really hope someone else overpays him but if he signs for an upper tier contract I wouldn't be unhappy. Good guy, healthy so far, hard worker. Even tho I think hes 3rd tier I'd give him a second tier contract just cuz he's our boy. And the team has asked far too much of him so far. Considering his college career (only came on at the end) I'm firmly a supporter.

Besides, everything other than scoring is Bargs level. If we waited 5 years for him I'm fine to see how Demar does cuttin to the mid post off a JV roll with Q Ross in a corner and KLow7 ready to crash hard. Can't wait.

I'm not sure I agree with 3rd option on a good team but we'll find out soon enough. He likely will be the third option this year and we'll see how good the Raptors will be. 'Good' is relative but I wouldn't call squeaking in to the playoffs 'good'. If anything it is average.... just my opinion though.

I like your post but it speaks to the very one dimensional part of his game. Scoring is not the issue - at least not in terms of efficiency. It is everything else. The only thing I'd compare DD's deficiencies to Bargnani is the lack of rebounding stats. Barg's is a good one on one defender, can pass, and has a more rounded offensive game.

Totally disagree on giving him a bigger contract than worth or overpaying because he has been part of the franchise for the long time. The Raps want to get better and keeping same parts while overpaying for them is only going to keep them treading water at best. The Raps might have asked too much of him but that speaks to the endless opportunities he has had to play. Definitely agree there has been a lack of talent around him - especially on offensive end when Bargnani was out.

Like I said, I do hope he proves me wrong. I've been wrong before so we could just add this to the list.

[Matt52]

derozan is going to be a stud, he just needs to pump up those quads, gain some explosiveness and tighten up his dribble (which he appears to be doing), hopefully he can prove this matt52 armchair douche wrong, but he's so far up BC's a s s he'll say he saw it happening a mile away. no wonder he got demoted from moderator......for being wrong all the time about EVERYTHING. But remember (the turd will remind you) it's just his opinion.....

I do apologize my posts seem to offend you and I do thank you for showing restraint in your analysis.

FYI, there is an ignore option where you can block every post I submit. The only time you'll be subjected to my BC-ass-exploring, douche-baggery, or turd spewing is if someone quotes me.

[minks77]

I'm not sure I agree with 3rd option on a good team but we'll find out soon enough. He likely will be the third option this year and we'll see how good the Raptors will be. 'Good' is relative but I wouldn't call squeaking in to the playoffs 'good'. If anything it is average.... just my opinion though.

I like your post but it speaks to the very one dimensional part of his game. Scoring is not the issue - at least not in terms of efficiency. It is everything else. The only thing I'd compare DD's deficiencies to Bargnani is the lack of rebounding stats. Barg's is a good one on one defender, can pass, and has a more rounded offensive game.

Totally disagree on giving him a bigger contract than worth or overpaying because he has been part of the franchise for the long time. The Raps want to get better and keeping same parts while overpaying for them is only going to keep them treading water at best. The Raps might have asked too much of him but that speaks to the endless opportunities he has had to play. Definitely agree there has been a lack of talent around him - especially on offensive end when Bargnani was out.

Like I said, I do hope he proves me wrong. I've been wrong before so we could just add this to the list.

First off I think DeMar will be a decent scorer and a mediocre/adequate everything else. He could develop range but that's about it, I think the potential for him to be anything superstarish was a figment of raptor nations desperation. He's always been a fairly one dimensional player and he always will be. That being said I nee to clarify my earlier comment. When I said overpay I meant give him 6 instead of 5 million per. He's nowhere near as versatile or effective as old man José and hasn't shown much beyond buckets. No way he gets a big, long calderon contract if it were up to me. l

[Matt52]

First off I think DeMar will be a decent scorer and a mediocre/adequate everything else. He could develop range but that's about it, I think the potential for him to be anything superstarish was a figment of raptor nations desperation. He's always been a fairly one dimensional player and he always will be. That being said I nee to clarify my earlier comment. When I said overpay I meant give him 6 instead of 5 million per. He's nowhere near as versatile or effective as old man José and hasn't shown much beyond buckets. No way he gets a big, long calderon contract if it were up to me. l

I could live with 5 or 6. I was thinking you meant like 8, 9, or 10 range.

Assuming he doesn't have an outstanding year proving the naysayers wrong, I wonder how he would fare in a 6th man role?

[planetmars]

If Fields is not worth $6.25M then why would DeMar be worth $6M? I actually think Fields is a better player then DeMar. Fields can do other things beside scoring.

If we were to resign DeMar I hope its in the $4.5M range (or less).

I see more Shannon Brown in DeMar than anything else. Brown got a 2 year $7M contract. Granted he is 26 and DeMar is 23.. but I would say that DeMar should get about as much as Brown did.

[Beagle]

Thanks for that link Good summer reading for sure. I really enjoyed reading the entry on Vince Carter too, which gets pretty far into the issue of superstar trade-me-now antics.

Regarding DeRozan, I think the case is pretty simple. DeRozan has the ability to be a very good player, but has shown a lack of mental stamina for such a role. This is his contract year. If he shows himself to be turning the corner, then Toronto along with several other teams will offer him a pretty good two-to-three year deal. If not, he becomes B-grade sixth-man material and will command about a 40% lower price, possibly losing the interest of Toronto, which he could probably care less about.

Right now, DeRozan is about the sixth-most exciting story on the Raptors' squad. It probably pains him to know this.

[Craiger]

Regarding DeRozan, I think the case is pretty simple. DeRozan has the ability to be a very good player, but has shown a lack of mental stamina for such a role.

I very much agree with this, and the sentiment of the article in general. Personally I'm not worried about his jumpshooting or 3 pt shooting. All he needs to be is a threat (hit somewhere close to average) aslong as he can maintain his scoring around the rim, and improve on getting to the line.

But its everything else thats questionable. Defense, rebounding, ball handling, passing. I've pretty much written of the last 2... its not often players 'learn' to be effective ball handlers and passers by the time they are in the NBA. But the first two? No reason for it, outside of the same Bargnanish reasons - lack of toughness, dedication and fortitude to get the job done.

This is his contract year

This is what scares me. Lets pretend Derozan does have a good or improved season. Where does one stand with him? Players having great contract years and then falling off a cliff is hardly an abnormality. Do you look at a good contract year as continued growth or someone finally willing to do the hard stuff so he gets payed? I know Derozan doesn't seem like 'that type' of player... but a big pay day may find him the courage to attack the rim or get dirty for a loose ball, which then disappears after the cheque is signed

[Matt52]

I very much agree with this, and the sentiment of the article in general. Personally I'm not worried about his jumpshooting or 3 pt shooting. All he needs to be is a threat (hit somewhere close to average) aslong as he can maintain his scoring around the rim, and improve on getting to the line.

But its everything else thats questionable. Defense, rebounding, ball handling, passing. I've pretty much written of the last 2... its not often players 'learn' to be effective ball handlers and passers by the time they are in the NBA. But the first two? No reason for it, outside of the same Bargnanish reasons - lack of toughness, dedication and fortitude to get the job done.



This is what scares me. Lets pretend Derozan does have a good or improved season. Where does one stand with him? Players having great contract years and then falling off a cliff is hardly an abnormality. Do you look at a good contract year as continued growth or someone finally willing to do the hard stuff so he gets payed? I know Derozan doesn't seem like 'that type' of player... but a big pay day may find him the courage to attack the rim or get dirty for a loose ball, which then disappears after the cheque is signed

These are all solid points.... with one half exception that is relevant to DeRozan though.

I don't want to side track the thread but I've seen enough from Bargnani to remove the questions regarding his lack of toughness, dedication, and fortitude and replace it with consistency (which can be argued to be crucial to those points I realize) and health. I wrote extensively at the start of the lockout season about how Bargnani would surprise people. Hopefully with health he can follow through and remove the asterisk of "but it was only 13 games!" ..... which was actually closer to 20 of 31 but whatever same idea as Fields getting $20M.

[Axel]

He just needs to somehow make the refs open their eyes. He's easily the most overlooked slasher in the L and he works hard to get those calls.

The biggest reason, imo, that he never gets those calls is because of trying to dunk on guys hard, everytime, he tries to sell the foul or force the foul and then misses the lay-up and often doesn't get the call. The refs have the book on him that he tries too hard to get the foul call. If he simply went up and crowned people (like we all know he is capable of) then he'd get the calls much more often.