Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Interesting article on DeRozan

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    If Fields is not worth $6.25M then why would DeMar be worth $6M? I actually think Fields is a better player then DeMar. Fields can do other things beside scoring.

    If we were to resign DeMar I hope its in the $4.5M range (or less).

    I see more Shannon Brown in DeMar than anything else. Brown got a 2 year $7M contract. Granted he is 26 and DeMar is 23.. but I would say that DeMar should get about as much as Brown did.

    Comment


    • #17
      Thanks for that link Good summer reading for sure. I really enjoyed reading the entry on Vince Carter too, which gets pretty far into the issue of superstar trade-me-now antics.

      Regarding DeRozan, I think the case is pretty simple. DeRozan has the ability to be a very good player, but has shown a lack of mental stamina for such a role. This is his contract year. If he shows himself to be turning the corner, then Toronto along with several other teams will offer him a pretty good two-to-three year deal. If not, he becomes B-grade sixth-man material and will command about a 40% lower price, possibly losing the interest of Toronto, which he could probably care less about.

      Right now, DeRozan is about the sixth-most exciting story on the Raptors' squad. It probably pains him to know this.

      Comment


      • #18
        Beagle wrote: View Post
        Regarding DeRozan, I think the case is pretty simple. DeRozan has the ability to be a very good player, but has shown a lack of mental stamina for such a role.
        I very much agree with this, and the sentiment of the article in general. Personally I'm not worried about his jumpshooting or 3 pt shooting. All he needs to be is a threat (hit somewhere close to average) aslong as he can maintain his scoring around the rim, and improve on getting to the line.

        But its everything else thats questionable. Defense, rebounding, ball handling, passing. I've pretty much written of the last 2... its not often players 'learn' to be effective ball handlers and passers by the time they are in the NBA. But the first two? No reason for it, outside of the same Bargnanish reasons - lack of toughness, dedication and fortitude to get the job done.

        This is his contract year
        This is what scares me. Lets pretend Derozan does have a good or improved season. Where does one stand with him? Players having great contract years and then falling off a cliff is hardly an abnormality. Do you look at a good contract year as continued growth or someone finally willing to do the hard stuff so he gets payed? I know Derozan doesn't seem like 'that type' of player... but a big pay day may find him the courage to attack the rim or get dirty for a loose ball, which then disappears after the cheque is signed

        Comment


        • #19
          Craiger wrote: View Post
          I very much agree with this, and the sentiment of the article in general. Personally I'm not worried about his jumpshooting or 3 pt shooting. All he needs to be is a threat (hit somewhere close to average) aslong as he can maintain his scoring around the rim, and improve on getting to the line.

          But its everything else thats questionable. Defense, rebounding, ball handling, passing. I've pretty much written of the last 2... its not often players 'learn' to be effective ball handlers and passers by the time they are in the NBA. But the first two? No reason for it, outside of the same Bargnanish reasons - lack of toughness, dedication and fortitude to get the job done.



          This is what scares me. Lets pretend Derozan does have a good or improved season. Where does one stand with him? Players having great contract years and then falling off a cliff is hardly an abnormality. Do you look at a good contract year as continued growth or someone finally willing to do the hard stuff so he gets payed? I know Derozan doesn't seem like 'that type' of player... but a big pay day may find him the courage to attack the rim or get dirty for a loose ball, which then disappears after the cheque is signed
          These are all solid points.... with one half exception that is relevant to DeRozan though.

          I don't want to side track the thread but I've seen enough from Bargnani to remove the questions regarding his lack of toughness, dedication, and fortitude and replace it with consistency (which can be argued to be crucial to those points I realize) and health. I wrote extensively at the start of the lockout season about how Bargnani would surprise people. Hopefully with health he can follow through and remove the asterisk of "but it was only 13 games!" ..... which was actually closer to 20 of 31 but whatever same idea as Fields getting $20M.

          Comment


          • #20
            minks77 wrote: View Post
            He just needs to somehow make the refs open their eyes. He's easily the most overlooked slasher in the L and he works hard to get those calls.
            The biggest reason, imo, that he never gets those calls is because of trying to dunk on guys hard, everytime, he tries to sell the foul or force the foul and then misses the lay-up and often doesn't get the call. The refs have the book on him that he tries too hard to get the foul call. If he simply went up and crowned people (like we all know he is capable of) then he'd get the calls much more often.
            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

            Comment


            • #21
              Axel wrote: View Post
              If he simply went up and crowned people (like we all know he is capable of) then he'd get the calls much more often.
              The problem is that doesn't happen often enough. He gets timid or something, when he doesn't see a clear path to the bucket he doesn't show the same explosiveness. When he drives and gets fouled the majority of the time he can't finish to get the and-1. Getting stronger will help with that.
              Two beer away from being two beers away.

              Comment


              • #22
                For sure, there is a huge mental hurdle for him. But we all know he has the hops to destroy people at the hoop ala VC and T-Mac in the "glory" years.
                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Axel wrote: View Post
                  For sure, there is a huge mental hurdle for him. But we all know he has the hops to destroy people at the hoop ala VC and T-Mac in the "glory" years.
                  There's no way you can compare DeRozan to VC in his Toronto years. DeRozan doesn't have the handles, confidence or killer instinct the way Carter did, even in his rookie year. DeRozan might be able to improve his handles and outside shooting, as well as his defense, but the swagger/killer instinct is something you're born with, not something you practice in the gym or gain with experience.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    I could live with 5 or 6. I was thinking you meant like 8, 9, or 10 range.

                    Assuming he doesn't have an outstanding year proving the naysayers wrong, I wonder how he would fare in a 6th man role?
                    I think DeRozan would be an ideal 6th man scorer. Coming off the bench and playing against the opposition's 2nd unit players, would significantly mask DeRozan's greatest weaknesses - below average defense, poor peripheral stats (ie: rebounding & assists), average handles, terrible shooting range. His athleticism, improving handles and ability to get to the rim (and FT line) would be much greater assets when playing against weaker defenders. If he were ever to add an even somewhat improved 3pt shot, he could become a Barbosa/Terry-like sparkplug scorer off the bench.

                    My only concern is that after starting since day one, would his ego allow it? Or would he be like Bayless and turn into a completly different player when he's not starting, because he's too busy moping, letting his ego and sense of entitlement get the better of him? If he embraced the role, I think he'd be a fantastic 6th man.
                    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Aug 27, 2012, 11:56 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                      There's no way you can compare DeRozan to VC in his Toronto years. DeRozan doesn't have the handles, confidence or killer instinct the way Carter did, even in his rookie year. DeRozan might be able to improve his handles and outside shooting, as well as his defense, but the swagger/killer instinct is something you're born with, not something you practice in the gym or gain with experience.
                      My comparison was for dunking ability only. DeRozan has proven he has the hops to have given VC a run for his money in the dunk contest. My original point was (and remains) that DeRozan has the skill set and athleticism to be a force at the rim by dunking on people, and needs to stop trying to force the foul call that causes him to miss all these attempts at the rim. If he simply went up strong and dunk every time, regardless of the defence, then he'd get more free throw attempts and shoot a higher % at the rim.
                      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Axel wrote: View Post
                        My comparison was for dunking ability only. DeRozan has proven he has the hops to have given VC a run for his money in the dunk contest. My original point was (and remains) that DeRozan has the skill set and athleticism to be a force at the rim by dunking on people, and needs to stop trying to force the foul call that causes him to miss all these attempts at the rim. If he simply went up strong and dunk every time, regardless of the defence, then he'd get more free throw attempts and shoot a higher % at the rim.
                        Fair enough. I just don't think it will ever 'click' for him though, because he's lacking that killer instinct that true star players have. If he had it, he would've been trying to dunk over people since day one. He plays soft and hopes the refs bail him out, which makes him look like a whiny kid half the time, so it's no surprise that he doesn't get most of the touch fouls, the way guys like Kobe/LBJ (extreme, I know) do. The players who force the issue, pay the price and make a name for themselves, are the players who get the calls - you make your own luck in the NBA, which DeRozan still hasn't figured out after 3 seasons. I doubt he ever will.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                          Fair enough. I just don't think it will ever 'click' for him though, because he's lacking that killer instinct that true star players have. If he had it, he would've been trying to dunk over people since day one. He plays soft and hopes the refs bail him out, which makes him look like a whiny kid half the time, so it's no surprise that he doesn't get most of the touch fouls, the way guys like Kobe/LBJ (extreme, I know) do. The players who force the issue, pay the price and make a name for themselves, are the players who get the calls - you make your own luck in the NBA, which DeRozan still hasn't figured out after 3 seasons. I doubt he ever will.
                          Agreed. I do hope he can somehow "get it" this year, but I don't expect he will. Hopefully they can trade him at the deadline for something servicable or even a first rounder (late first rounder is certainly realistic, assuming his play hasn't improved from where it already is).

                          Like someone else mentioned earlier, even if he does pull it together this year, how much money do you really want to give him? Is he a $8-$10Mil guy and can he sustain it in non-contract years? I think I'd prefer to trade him at the deadline (hopefully after a good season for more return) than to bank on him being consistent from here on out.
                          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                            There's no way you can compare DeRozan to VC in his Toronto years.
                            you absolutely can. He was talking specifically about athleticism/hops. Other aspects of the game would not likely be as fair to compare


                            AND as I keep reading I see this was settled already lol
                            For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Axel wrote: View Post
                              Agreed. I do hope he can somehow "get it" this year, but I don't expect he will. Hopefully they can trade him at the deadline for something servicable or even a first rounder (late first rounder is certainly realistic, assuming his play hasn't improved from where it already is).

                              Like someone else mentioned earlier, even if he does pull it together this year, how much money do you really want to give him? Is he a $8-$10Mil guy and can he sustain it in non-contract years? I think I'd prefer to trade him at the deadline (hopefully after a good season for more return) than to bank on him being consistent from here on out.
                              My thoughts exactly. He's scheduled to make $3.3M this season, with a $4.53M QO after this year. Even if his season is on par with the last month of last season, I'm sure there are teams out there who would be willing to offer him $6-8M per season, given his age/stats/potential.

                              For me, DeRozan's future with Toronto comes down to 3 factors:
                              1. How much improvement does DeRozan show this year - does he become a star SG, or prove he's best suited for 6th man scorer role?
                              2. Does Ross show an ability to effectively replace DeRozan as the "young, athletic starting SG with loads of potential, on a rookie-scale contract"?
                              3. What would DeRozan (alone or in a bigger package deal) return in a possible trade, either at the deadline or as a S&T next offseason?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                                My thoughts exactly. He's scheduled to make $3.3M this season, with a $4.53M QO after this year. Even if his season is on par with the last month of last season, I'm sure there are teams out there who would be willing to offer him $6-8M per season, given his age/stats/potential.

                                For me, DeRozan's future with Toronto comes down to 3 factors:
                                1. How much improvement does DeRozan show this year - does he become a star SG, or prove he's best suited for 6th man scorer role?
                                2. Does Ross show an ability to effectively replace DeRozan as the "young, athletic starting SG with loads of potential, on a rookie-scale contract"?
                                3. What would DeRozan (alone or in a bigger package deal) return in a possible trade, either at the deadline or as a S&T next offseason?
                                I would also add:

                                Can DD and Ross play effectively together?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X