Greatest NBA Player Ever?

[tucas]

Wilt averaged 50 pt's a game one season. He had 14 triple doubles in a row, one season. They changed the rules of the game, so that he wouldn't totally dominate every game he played in.

"...He also won 7 scoring, 9 field goal percentage, and 11 rebounding titles in addition to an assist title."

He had his jersey number retired by three different NBA franchises, the Warriors, the Lakers and the 76'ers.

"Chamberlain holds 71 NBA records, 62 by himself. Among his records are several that are considered unbreakable, such as averaging 22.9 rebounds for a career or 50.4 points per game in a season, scoring 100 points or 55 rebounds in a single game, scoring 65 or more points 15 times, 50 or more points 118 times. During Chamberlain's time, defensive statistics like blocks and steals had not been recorded yet. However, according to Jack Ramsay, "Harvey said he used to tell one of his statisticians to keep track of Wilt's blocks in big games...One night, they got up to 25".

Not saying Jordan wasn't the greatest ever, just saying it's not an open and shut case.

The rules were so much different back then. I've already made my case for his inflated points, with the whole no 3 second call or 3 point line. The blocks can be explained by the fact that goaltending was allowed back then. That's huge if goaltending was allowed now we'd see guys get just as many blocks. He rebounds are monstrous no arguement about that. If we're comparing the greatest ever, I just don't think wilt is the one to be comparing to. It was a big mans game back then, a more suitable arguement would be Kobe if he wins 1 or 2 more rings but even then I think it'd be jordan. Another good comparison would be Bill Russel but that's based solely on hardware alone.

[minks77]

One of MJ's greatest strenghts was his hangtime. He'd go up on a jumper with a defender in his grill and even though he took off first teh defender would almost always come down first giving Mike a clean look. He had great form in his upper body on the jumper too so he was always truly shooting it and not just throwing it up. Mj rarely put up prayers. He was like a swiss army knife of offensive tools but he worked hard to fill out every other aspect of his game and never settled for being just a scorer. He was a winner and knew that winning meant all aspects of the game.

[Puffer]

The rules were so much different back then. I've already made my case for his inflated points, with the whole no 3 second call or 3 point line. The blocks can be explained by the fact that goaltending was allowed back then....

Wilt didn't play in a vacuum. there were other players on the floor. Sure no 3 second rule, but that just means other guys were pushing, leaning and otherwise in there with you playing defence. Several references in this thread to how different the game was played back then. As has been mentioned, with today's rules there would be 2 or 3 fouls called on every basket.

As for goal-tending, if it was so easy, how come other players weren't recording his incredible block numbers? If it was easy for Wilt, it was also easy for everyone else...except that in professional sports, it's never easy when you have to compete against other players.

[tucas]

Wilt didn't play in a vacuum. there were other players on the floor. Sure no 3 second rule, but that just means other guys were pushing, leaning and otherwise in there with you playing defence. Several references in this thread to how different the game was played back then. As has been mentioned, with today's rules there would be 2 or 3 fouls called on every basket.

As for goal-tending, if it was so easy, how come other players weren't recording his incredible block numbers? If it was easy for Wilt, it was also easy for everyone else...except that in professional sports, it's never easy when you have to compete against other players.

Because wilt was great, one of the top 10 players of all time. Im just saying he shouldn't be in the conversation for first since his stats were so inflated. I'm not taking anything away from his greatness just think his stats were so high just because of the rules. I imagine in today's game his stats would be closer to 30/15/3, if he was a teams first option.

[Puffer]

...I imagine in today's game his stats would be closer to 30/15/3, if he was a teams first option.

And that's why they have discussion boards. I think those might be close to his career stats (though low) but his prime years would have been significantly higher. The three second rule wouldn't have been that significant, because he had the strength and speed to refine his low post game. As well, he had a much better shot then, for instance, Shaq, and was almost as strong, in his prime, without the fat.

But hey, we can agree to disagree :-)

[Craiger]

doesn't need to be argued. lets make it a hypothetical...you have the first pick of the all nba draft, every single player to ever play in the nba is there. who would you choose? anyone here not taking jordan first overall?

I'm not. I'm taking Shaq.

While Jordan may well be the best player ever, I think Shaq is the most dominant player ever.

I fully believe the level of disparity between Shaq and the next 'best' C is greater than between any other player and the next 'best' at their respective position.

[planetmars]

I'm not. I'm taking Shaq.

While Jordan may well be the best player ever, I think Shaq is the most dominant player ever.

I fully believe the level of disparity between Shaq and the next 'best' C is greater than between any other player and the next 'best' at their respective position.

Except when Shaq played against Hakeem... Hakeem owned Shaq in the NBA finals that one year. You just need a mobile/quick center with great post-moves and Shaq would be helpless.

[Hugmenot]

I'm not. I'm taking Shaq.

While Jordan may well be the best player ever, I think Shaq is the most dominant player ever.

I fully believe the level of disparity between Shaq and the next 'best' C is greater than between any other player and the next 'best' at their respective position.

While I prefer Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell to Shaq, I would give Shaq at least as much consideration as MJ for the third pick overall.

I perused a book of the 100 greatest basketball players earlier this Summer and they had Shaq at #1. While I don't agree with the ranking, I believe there is no clear cut best player and that Shaq would be in the conversation.

[Craiger]

Except when Shaq played against Hakeem... Hakeem owned Shaq in the NBA finals that one year. You just need a mobile/quick center with great post-moves and Shaq would be helpless.

Shaq - 28 pts on 60% shooting, 12.5 Rbs, 6.25 assists, 2.25 blocks, 0.25 steals, 5.25 TO

Hakeem - 32.5 pts on 48% shooting, 11.5 Rbs, 5.5 assists, 2.75 blocks, 2 steals, 4.5 TO

We need to also consider Shaq was in his 2nd year in the NBA, first time in the finals. Hakeem had 11 years experience at that point in time and in his 3rd finals apperance.

I don't think that even remotely indicates that Shaq was 'owned' in that series. Moreso a 'mobile/quick center with great post-moves would leave Shaq helpless' is hardly a statement that held true his career.

[minks77]

perhaps because for 80% of his career there were no highly skilled, mobile, athletic big men in the league? Just sayin.

Shaq could of been greater than he was had he been challenged in his career. As it was he was playing against old men and guys who could barely walk and chew gum at the same time so all he did was use his power game. If you watch a young Shaq however you see a highly skilled big man coupled with unmatched power. It's a crying shame he never had to develop his game though. He could have, he was intelligent and dexterous enough. Just never had to. Yao was the first big man since Keem to really ever make him work and Shaq loved him for it.

[Hugmenot]

Except when Shaq played against Hakeem... Hakeem owned Shaq in the NBA finals that one year. You just need a mobile/quick center with great post-moves and Shaq would be helpless.

Hakeem is my 2nd favorite center of all-time, right behind Kareem. Having said that, I say David Robinson was at least as good if not a tiny bit better than Hakeem and that Shaq was better than both.

I would rank Kareem at least on par with The Admiral but below Shaquille O'Neil.

[Miekenstien]

i think shaq is the best center ever. in the next group i put robinson/kareem/hakeem/ewing. my viewpoint on the stilt is that once the rules got changed to make it fairer his stats came down to earth so its hard to measure him. i look at it as an overpowering wow type stat/ where developers have to change it up to even it for everyone.

[LBF]

I say Jordan solely for the reason that he dominated, won three championships in a row. Quit. Then cameback and didn't miss a beat winning another 3 championships in a row.

[planetmars]

Shaq - 28 pts on 60% shooting, 12.5 Rbs, 6.25 assists, 2.25 blocks, 0.25 steals, 5.25 TO

Hakeem - 32.5 pts on 48% shooting, 11.5 Rbs, 5.5 assists, 2.75 blocks, 2 steals, 4.5 TO

We need to also consider Shaq was in his 2nd year in the NBA, first time in the finals. Hakeem had 11 years experience at that point in time and in his 3rd finals apperance.

I don't think that even remotely indicates that Shaq was 'owned' in that series. Moreso a 'mobile/quick center with great post-moves would leave Shaq helpless' is hardly a statement that held true his career.

Damn, why did you have to bring up stats

Okay you got me.. my statement was an observation from watching that series and being impressed by Hakeem. I would still choose Hakeem over Shaq as his post moves were so much fun for a big man to watch.

But ultimately I pick Jordan.. mostly because he's the reason I started watching basketball (which is very subjective, I know). The guy dominated, especially in the finals. He just wouldn't lose. A big time ass-hole, but still a pleasure to watch.