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Thread: Raps set for Bargnani contingincy plan

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Default Raps set for Bargnani contingincy plan

    Before I post anything else let me state this:

    I believe it is the preference of Brian Colangelo that Bargs pans out and is THE GUY we saw for about 20 games early in last season.

    However:
    - I personally am skeptical that he is based primarily on his pastern of effort over his 6 years as a RAP.
    - If he isn't - THE GUY - BC can't let it play out for another whole season
    - if he misses many games this season due to injury or a trade - Raps will change

    If the oft-injured Bargs is not THE GUY I expect the raps to over night become the best defensive team in the league.

    Just look at the Defense first guys they have on the team (not to mention the coach).

    BIGS not named Bargnani
    JV - not sure what to expect offensively, but will provide great help defense and block/alter shots from day 1
    Gray - Rugged Interior Defense, slow, above average rebounder not much offense
    Amir - high motor defender, athletic, shot-blocker, can not create his own shot
    Dominic McGuire - almost non-existent offensive game as explained here, Outstanding athletic defender
    Ed Davis - shot blocker amazingly may have the most offensive game of any raptor big man.

    NON-Bigs
    Quincy Acy - can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass, decent in open floor, got to the NBA with High motor and rugged pounding defense
    Derozen... well he is Derozen, saves his energy mostly for offense but may improve under DC
    Alan Anderson - "Good mid-range and long-range shooter... Works hard on the defensive end.."
    Fields: The best defender rebounded he could be given his athletic package - which is quite good (still over paid)

    TRoss (6,7) vs Barbossa (6'2) is a huge defensive upgrade
    K Lowry(6') vs Calderon (6'3) is a huge defensive upgrade even though lowry is shorter he can keep people in front of him.
    Kleiza Calderon are the exception raptors would rely heavily on them in the absence of Bargs. However BC has gone on record again saying Calderon is available.

    All that being said Bargs is with out a doubt THE QUESTION going in to the season. What he does or does not do will directly effect the raptors for season to come.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    How is Bargnani "often injured"?

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    Fingers crossed that he is the guy, he's such a unique talent it would be a shame to waste it.

    BUT I agree with your contigency theory, I just hope we dont waste Lowry and JV's youth ( derozan/ross maybe) trying to plug mediocre pieces. If this team turns out to be as improved as i think it is, its time to go big.

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    There is no one else on the Raptors that can score in isolation so the Raptors are betting on Andrea's good health. On the injury prone analysis, it's too early to put that tag on AB. I counted 78 missed games in 6 season's that's 13 per year on average. Here's to good health for Bargnani.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    There is no one else on the Raptors that can score in isolation...
    I'm sure we'll be seeing a LOT of late-game ISOs for Lowry this year.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Pick and roll, I would think.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    Pick and roll, I would think.
    PNRs for sure, but Lowry's plenty capable of creating his own shot without a big man's help.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Rookie phdmac's Avatar
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    Acy is a big, he is a 4. It is DeRozan and contingency. I like Bargs on the offensive side. He adds pieces to his game every season and can score in so many different ways. With more firepower around him and an improved DD, hopefully AB can stay healthier and maintain his effectiveness throughout the entire season
    Ball Don't Lie

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    I believe it was Matt a few days ago that pointed out the the Raps were BETTER defensively with Andrea on the floor last year that when he was injured. I can't remember what thread it was posted in, but the numbers seem to support this. Also, I have to agree with the others who question your tag of injury prone, he has been pretty durable for the bulk of his career missing more than half of his games last year.

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    If Bargnani goes down for an extended period the Raptors are in some deep do do.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Derozan looks like he has some improved handles. I wouldn't be surprised if he stepped up and became that go to guy, he'll be much more comfortable with guys like Lowry and fields in the lineup. They'll open things up for him

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    I believe it was Matt a few days ago that pointed out the the Raps were BETTER defensively with Andrea on the floor last year that when he was injured. I can't remember what thread it was posted in, but the numbers seem to support this. Also, I have to agree with the others who question your tag of injury prone, he has been pretty durable for the bulk of his career missing more than half of his games last year.
    If we look at on floor/off floor numbers the Raptors were defensively 3.1 pts per 100 possessions worse with Bargnani on the floor than off (just so this hopefully doesn't turn into a Bargnani numbers argument they were better offensively with Bargnani on the floor for a net positive total).

    http://www.82games.com/1112/11TOR15.HTM

    To touch on injury prone, it depends on what the time line is or how one defines it. For his career he has averaged 83% of his games in a season, but for the last 2 years he's only averaged 65% (and is the bulk of his missed games). His calf injury has shown to be reoccuring, but ofcourse the timeline is small (two sample years). I'd think its fair to say if it happens a third time its a trend
    Last edited by Craiger; Sat Sep 15th, 2012 at 07:58 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Sheptor's Avatar
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    If Bargnani goes down for an extended period the Raptors are in some deep do do.
    I agree, and it's easy to point to his scoring as the reason why but I found we just looked entirely more confident last year when Bargnani was on the floor. Last year we had two professional basketball players on our team. Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani, the rest were talented ball players who were inconsistent and still trying to find themselves and men and pro athletes Amir Johnson may be excluded). Our depth may save us if Barg's does go down this year but he is by far our most important player and I don't really see his scoring numbers dropping last from last year, or his rebounding numbers because of Lowry. He should come out with a killer instinct. Playoffs probably mean more to this guy than we think.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    If we look at on floor/off floor numbers the Raptors were defensively 3.1 pts per 100 possessions worse with Bargnani on the floor than off (just so this hopefully doesn't turn into a Bargnani numbers argument they were better offensively with Bargnani on the floor for a net positive total).

    http://www.82games.com/1112/11TOR15.HTM

    To touch on injury prone, it depends on what the time line is or how one defines it. For his career he has averaged 83% of his games in a season, but for the last 2 years he's only averaged 65% (and is the bulk of his missed games). His calf injury has shown to be reoccuring, but ofcourse the timeline is small (two sample years). I'd think its fair to say if it happens a third time its a trend
    I don't actually know, just asking, what about fg% wise? The pace may have been higher when bargnani was off the court than when he was on the court, leading to more points. Also when it comes to man-to-man defending bargnani is in the top 5 percentile, however he's known as a bad defender because of his inability to rotate and provide help. Which "technically" isn't his fault if another man's assignment gets by him.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    I don't actually know, just asking, what about fg% wise? The pace may have been higher when bargnani was off the court than when he was on the court, leading to more points. Also when it comes to man-to-man defending bargnani is in the top 5 percentile, however he's known as a bad defender because of his inability to rotate and provide help. Which "technically" isn't his fault if another man's assignment gets by him.
    The on court/off court numbers are adjusted for pace by their nature of per 100 possessions (unless per 100 possessions are calculated differently from the common method).

    Opposition shoots 1.2% better with Bargnani on the court.

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    Bargnani is just awful on help defense, thats why the raps drafted JV, to mask his inabilities ( remember the Tyson Chandler/Dirk Nowitzki frontcourt comparisons i think JV and AB will function simmilary ). And saying that a persons inability to rotate on help defense "technically" isnt his fault is like saying that Lebron "technically" was traded to the Miami Heat, so dont be guy, tucas, everybody hates that guy...

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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote Vykis wrote: View Post
    Bargnani is just awful on help defense, thats why the raps drafted JV, to mask his inabilities ( remember the Tyson Chandler/Dirk Nowitzki frontcourt comparisons i think JV and AB will function simmilary ). And saying that a persons inability to rotate on help defense "technically" isnt his fault is like saying that Lebron "technically" was traded to the Miami Heat, so dont be guy, tucas, everybody hates that guy...
    Lol js. My point was though people are talking about how he's such a bad defender. But it's not like he's not defending his matchup well, he's just not defending other peoples matchups well. If he can get that rotation to help defense down its scary how good he could be

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    Lol js. My point was though people are talking about how he's such a bad defender. But it's not like he's not defending his matchup well, he's just not defending other peoples matchups well. If he can get that rotation to help defense down its scary how good he could be
    Here's the thing. Demar and Jose aren't very good perimeter defenders, so the opposition had an easier time of penetrating into the lane, thus forcing the help side to come and defend. Whether it was Amir, Ed, and of course Bargnani, who already had under average weak side defense.

    Weak side defense is a huge effort part of the game, but it's also defensive IQ. Which Bargnani improved on last season under Coach Casey. The PnR Defense, the post and on-ball defense, it was all great to watch.

    Now that Lowry and Fields are in the fold, Lowry's D > Calderon's D, and arguably Fields being a better perimeter defender than JJ, the penetration in the lane of the opposition should decrease. Bargnani has more of an opportunity to worry about his own man. Not to mention what you've already spoken about the similarity in Jonas/Andrea = Chandler/Nowitzki

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