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Thread: How is Kyle Lowry different from Jarrett Jack?

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    Default How is Kyle Lowry different from Jarrett Jack?

    Last season stats for Jack and Lowry:


    Jack and Lowry's numbers were scarily similar last season, and they also played and started around the same number of games. Worth noting that Jack took a huge step forward, doubling nearly every stat from the previous season while Lowry has been climbing rather more steadily.

    And we saw Jarrett Jack more as a solid backup than a legit starter during his Raptors tenure, so what differentiates Lowry from Jack? Is he really a core piece and a definite upgrade or just another PG controversy ready to brew?
    Last edited by playmak3r5; Thu Sep 6th, 2012 at 09:29 AM. Reason: typo fix

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Good comparison imo. I always thought Jarrett was an under rated leader for the Rap's. They both have similar games and builds as well as characteristics, but I think Lowry is a far better defender and has a higher level of the same skills which they both share.

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    Stats are simmilar, but don't forget that Jack played for a much worse team that always inflates stats and Lowry played at an allstar level in the begining of the season

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    Quote Vykis wrote: View Post
    Stats are simmilar, but don't forget that Jack played for a much worse team that always inflates stats and Lowry played at an allstar level in the begining of the season
    doesn't seem to inflate the stats of the bad players. The argument the other way can be having good teammates inflates stats because they make a players game easier. Better teammates to pass to, bigger threats for the defense to concentrate on, better defenders to help the player out etc. Deron Williams comes to mind - went from a superstar, to a (atleast statistically) weaker PG.

    But here's another comparison (includes per 36, %s, some advanced #s etc)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ryky01&y2=2012

    a quick look I think its fair to say Lowry probably comes out as the better player, although Jack was slightly more efficient (in eFG%, and assists/turnovers). I'd say Lowry might not be quite as good as fans are hoping he will be (take that as a relative term - not quite an all-star, but hardly an 'average' player either), and Jack was a bit underrated while he was here.

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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    doesn't seem to inflate the stats of the bad players. The argument the other way can be having good teammates inflates stats because they make a players game easier. Better teammates to pass to, bigger threats for the defense to concentrate on, better defenders to help the player out etc. Deron Williams comes to mind - went from a superstar, to a (atleast statistically) weaker PG.

    But here's another comparison (includes per 36, %s, some advanced #s etc)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ryky01&y2=2012

    a quick look I think its fair to say Lowry probably comes out as the better player, although Jack was slightly more efficient (in eFG%, and assists/turnovers). I'd say Lowry might not be quite as good as fans are hoping he will be (take that as a relative term - not quite an all-star, but hardly an 'average' player either), and Jack was a bit underrated while he was here.
    Looking at the stats, I'd prefer Lowry over Jack. It's worth noting their WS. To be fair with Jack though, he had a great career here.

    I'd like to see their comparison though on mysynergysports on P&R, iso, and etc.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Lowry is a better defender. He is also not as ball-dominant as Jack in the sense that he doesn't take nearly as many shots. He also is slightly more efficient offensively as he gets to the line more often.

    I welcome the initial post, though. The expectations on this guy are way too high. Reading some of the posts this summer one would think they traded for Isiah Thomas in his prime.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Good comparison imo. I always thought Jarrett was an under rated leader for the Rap's. They both have similar games and builds as well as characteristics, but I think Lowry is a far better defender and has a higher level of the same skills which they both share.
    I agree it is a good comparison - Lowry is not a far better defender but they are both miles ahead of calderon.

    Jacks numbers are a combination of being 2nd or 3 option on the floor and the confidence therein.

    - Lowry is smaller quicker and better at breaking down an offense when he creates off the bounce.
    - Jack might get the nod because of his size for contesting shots and defending the perimeter -
    - Lowry likely gets the nod for keeping his player in front of him

    defensively I would take either
    offensively Jack can labor at times - some nights he really fights the ball
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Starter theycallmeZZ's Avatar
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    Jack played on a Hornets team minus Gordon or pretty much any other option.

    Lowry played a bunch of games later in the season in conflict with the coach/ coming off surgery and sickness

    These are variables that make a major impact imo
    TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

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    Also, Jarrett Jack is one of the worst defenders in the NBA at the point guard position, whereas Kyle Lowry is perhaps the best. that's the real difference.

    One of the funny things about the Jack/Calderon debate in retrospect is that in terms of defense, about the only worse defender in the league at PG than Jack is Calderon. So Jack was/is the better defender, but it's kind of like how Kleiza has a better handle than Ed Davis.

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    Whether he's(Lowry) a core piece, an upgrade or a controversy waiting to brew depends entirely on us fans and mainly the media. It's important to look at him as a good PG who fits Casey's system and nothing more. The problem with us Raptors fans and the Toronto media is that we sensationalize an OK acquisition and herald him like he's the next superstar. It is important to expect him to deliver as much as he's capable of. I don't think he's an upgrade over Jose. It's just that his age and style of play suits our present need. While I've always liked Jack, if I have to choose between the two as my starter, it would definitely be Lowry. I would love to have Jack as the back-up. In-fact I did check the trade machine to see if he's available but he's not.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    i don't know...I really liked it when we got Jack, but it didn't take long to figure out he was a bit of a headcase. He has the toughness to be a good leader, but I think his ego and brain get in the way. This was the same thing with Bayless. With Bayless more so, but it felt like a lot of times when he or Jack made a play, even with success, it was the "wrong" play. The kind of play where a coach is like "NO! NO! don't do that!!!" but then the ball goes in...that's also another thing that inflates stats when you're on a bad team, because coach can't sit your ass down when you do that.
    The comparison may make a lot of sense in terms of talents, but really the impact Lowry has is much more desirable. Maybe it's because he really fought for his spot, whereas with Jack and Bayless it felt like despite the chip on their shoulder, they expected to be handed a big role. I don't know, this is just a subjective rant, and I could see the argument that Lowry may not be an upgrade, but I just believe from watching him and reading about him that he "gets it" better than they do. He's contributed to pretty talentless Houston teams enough for them to have winning records the last 3 years, the last 2 with him as starting PG.

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    Quote playmak3r5 wrote: View Post
    Jack and Lowry's numbers were scarily similar last season, and they also played and started around the same number of games.
    Here's a better set of stats - per 48 mins played rather than per game - which shows that yes, Jack is a good solid point guard (.100 is average), and Lowry is significantly better (.200+ is star level) ... from a combination of better rebounding, more steals, drawing more fouls, more assists, more 3-pointers at a good clip, and ... well, look for yourself.

    http://is.gd/Ipndz9 (the whole comparison)
    http://www.thenbageek.com/players/compare (where to go to do them)
    Last edited by Kuh; Thu Sep 6th, 2012 at 12:04 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Ion66's Avatar
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    All respect to Lowry, but until I see him tie his shoes while handling the ball, this comparison is moot.

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    scrubs the whole bunch of dem

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    this is a classic example of why you need to watch the game and ignore the stats (for the most part).

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    this is a classic example of why you need to watch the game and ignore the stats (for the most part).
    Why? A stats fan would tell you this is a classic example of how just watching games to come to conclusions can be misleading. A Jarret Jack fan would tell you this is a classic example of how stats give more insight into a players worth.

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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Why? A stats fan would tell you this is a classic example of how just watching games to come to conclusions can be misleading. A Jarret Jack fan would tell you this is a classic example of how stats give more insight into a players worth.
    Jj put up his numbers on a terrible team where he was the first, second and third option much of the year due to injuries to the top 2 players. Lowry put up similar numbers on a borderline playoff team that had more options and a shit coach who tried to bury him. You have to watch the games. It's why they are played in real life and aren't just a bunch of stats fed thru a computer with the chip handed out to the designated winner. Stats are a reflection of the game but are not the game itself. Valuable info? For sure. But to take them as gospel (especially comparing guys in totally different systems) is a mistake.

    I am am JJ fan btw.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    Jj put up his numbers on a terrible team where he was the first, second and third option much of the year due to injuries to the top 2 players. Lowry put up similar numbers on a borderline playoff team that had more options and a shit coach who tried to bury him. You have to watch the games. It's why they are played in real life and aren't just a bunch of stats fed thru a computer with the chip handed out to the designated winner. Stats are a reflection of the game but are not the game itself. Valuable info? For sure. But to take them as gospel (especially comparing guys in totally different systems) is a mistake.

    I am am JJ fan btw.
    I don't think anyone said stats were the gospel, but saying that people should 'ignore stats (for the most part)' isn't telling at all.

    Nor was Jack being on a bad team necessarily telling. Wouldn't better teammates inflate stats, particularily PGs with better players to pass to and to take the pressure of the guy with the ball in his his hands? That could easily inflate assist totals, fg% and lower turnover rates.

    Scary thought though. If being on a bad team inflates a players stats - just how much worse and Demar and Bargnani than their stats say, seeing how their numbers have been inflated for the past two years?

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I don't think it is a fair comparison.

    Lowry is a much better defender. Plus Lowry's numbers reflect his diminished numbers when he returned at the end of the season for 9 games and only averaged 18mins per game while playing SH!T.

    Lowry's pre-sickness numbers - and all are starts:

    38 games
    35.4 minutes
    15.9 points
    5.1-12.1
    .418 fg%
    1.9-4.8
    .388 3pt%
    3.9-4.5
    .865 ft%
    5.3 reb
    7.2 ast
    0.3 blk
    1.8 stl
    3.2 to


    For those diminishing his expected impact, I would say getting an arguably top 10 player at a position is worth getting excited/optimistic/hopeful over.

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    Their hat size

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