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How is Kyle Lowry different from Jarrett Jack?

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  • #16
    I don't think it is a fair comparison.

    Lowry is a much better defender. Plus Lowry's numbers reflect his diminished numbers when he returned at the end of the season for 9 games and only averaged 18mins per game while playing SH!T.

    Lowry's pre-sickness numbers - and all are starts:

    38 games
    35.4 minutes
    15.9 points
    5.1-12.1
    .418 fg%
    1.9-4.8
    .388 3pt%
    3.9-4.5
    .865 ft%
    5.3 reb
    7.2 ast
    0.3 blk
    1.8 stl
    3.2 to


    For those diminishing his expected impact, I would say getting an arguably top 10 player at a position is worth getting excited/optimistic/hopeful over.

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    • #17
      Their hat size

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      • #18
        uuhhh...defense? forget the intangibles....its in the numbers: one more steal per game and one more rebound per game(which is significant at the PG position)

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        • #19
          Watch 1 game of Lowry and you'll see the difference. I like Jack, always have, but Lowry is a significant upgrade. Lowry is a real defender the likes of which we haven't seen at the point position. Lowry is also a better leader imo. He has had to fight tooth and nail to get where he is, and that commands a certain respect among teammates. Lowry will also make the offence better.
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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          • #20
            Axel wrote: View Post
            Watch 1 game of Lowry and you'll see the difference. I like Jack, always have, but Lowry is a significant upgrade. Lowry is a real defender the likes of which we haven't seen at the point position. Lowry is also a better leader imo. He has had to fight tooth and nail to get where he is, and that commands a certain respect among teammates. Lowry will also make the offence better.
            I'm just skeptical because Houston essentially gave up Lowry for dirt in exchange. Even though they were seemingly not happy with him, why would they make it so obvious they wanted to get rid of him? Is it to save money? They certainly didn't improve their roster due to it.
            Hell, even we got better return for getting rid of Hedo even though he played shit and the whole organization had beef with him ever since that night-club fiasco.

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            • #21
              I think the cheap price tag was because everyone knew that they wanted to get rid of him and there simply weren't a lot of teams that needed a starter PG. Houston was desperately going after Dwight Howard and a lottery pick is a better trade asset than a player for a team doing a full rebuild. If they had landed D12 with a package that included the Raps pick, then paired him with Lin, they would have had the makings of a roster that would have been an upgrade.

              Also Houston decided that McHale was the coach they wanted, and him and Lowry didn't get along for whatever reason. Be skeptical, but I assure you that faith will be rewarded with this player.
              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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              • #22
                Axel wrote: View Post
                I think the cheap price tag was because everyone knew that they wanted to get rid of him and there simply weren't a lot of teams that needed a starter PG. Houston was desperately going after Dwight Howard and a lottery pick is a better trade asset than a player for a team doing a full rebuild. If they had landed D12 with a package that included the Raps pick, then paired him with Lin, they would have had the makings of a roster that would have been an upgrade.

                Also Houston decided that McHale was the coach they wanted, and him and Lowry didn't get along for whatever reason. Be skeptical, but I assure you that faith will be rewarded with this player.
                These are the dog days, what else can you do besides be skeptical about our roster, ponder re-signing Joey Graham or google the new Raptors TV director?
                I sure hope you're right about Lowry though.

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                • #23
                  Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                  Good comparison imo. I always thought Jarrett was an under rated leader for the Rap's. They both have similar games and builds as well as characteristics, but I think Lowry is a far better defender and has a higher level of the same skills which they both share.
                  I agree it is a good comparison - Lowry is not a far better defender but they are both miles ahead of calderon.

                  Jacks numbers are a combination of being 2nd or 3 option on the floor and the confidence therein.

                  - Lowry is smaller quicker and better at breaking down an offense when he creates off the bounce.
                  - Jack might get the nod because of his size for contesting shots and defending the perimeter -
                  - Lowry likely gets the nod for keeping his player in front of him

                  defensively I would take either
                  offensively Jack can labor at times - some nights he really fights the ball
                  "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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                  • #24
                    Craiger wrote: View Post
                    Why? A stats fan would tell you this is a classic example of how just watching games to come to conclusions can be misleading. A Jarret Jack fan would tell you this is a classic example of how stats give more insight into a players worth.
                    Jj put up his numbers on a terrible team where he was the first, second and third option much of the year due to injuries to the top 2 players. Lowry put up similar numbers on a borderline playoff team that had more options and a shit coach who tried to bury him. You have to watch the games. It's why they are played in real life and aren't just a bunch of stats fed thru a computer with the chip handed out to the designated winner. Stats are a reflection of the game but are not the game itself. Valuable info? For sure. But to take them as gospel (especially comparing guys in totally different systems) is a mistake.

                    I am am JJ fan btw.
                    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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                    • #25
                      Axel wrote: View Post
                      I think the cheap price tag was because everyone knew that they wanted to get rid of him and there simply weren't a lot of teams that needed a starter PG. Houston was desperately going after Dwight Howard and a lottery pick is a better trade asset than a player for a team doing a full rebuild. If they had landed D12 with a package that included the Raps pick, then paired him with Lin, they would have had the makings of a roster that would have been an upgrade.

                      Also Houston decided that McHale was the coach they wanted, and him and Lowry didn't get along for whatever reason. Be skeptical, but I assure you that faith will be rewarded with this player.
                      This is exactly why we got him cheap. Everyone knew McHale and Lowry hated each other and Lowry said he wouldn't ball for Kev hence it's a buyers market. Same thing happened when Vince wanted out, the instant he went public he stole away any leverage the team had in trade talks. The rest of the L knew they could keep throwing crap at us and eventually Babcock would have to decide which pile of poo looked most appetizing.

                      Oh, and a 1st round pick from a perennial lottery team is not that cheap.
                      LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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                      • #26
                        playmak3r5 wrote: View Post
                        I'm just skeptical because Houston essentially gave up Lowry for dirt in exchange. Even though they were seemingly not happy with him, why would they make it so obvious they wanted to get rid of him? Is it to save money? They certainly didn't improve their roster due to it.
                        Hell, even we got better return for getting rid of Hedo even though he played shit and the whole organization had beef with him ever since that night-club fiasco.
                        I think houston was ultimately thinking that Lowry's progress from the previous year to where he was at the start of last year was a fluke (even though the entire league disagrees).

                        It comes down to the fact that we're not the only team that makes stupid mistakes...and in this case there is no question that we got lucky that they made a dumb mistake.

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                        • #27
                          Defense. Quicks. 3 point shot. Motor. More vocal.

                          also, Jack was a top offensive option last year...

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                          • #28
                            minks77 wrote: View Post
                            Jj put up his numbers on a terrible team where he was the first, second and third option much of the year due to injuries to the top 2 players. Lowry put up similar numbers on a borderline playoff team that had more options and a shit coach who tried to bury him. You have to watch the games. It's why they are played in real life and aren't just a bunch of stats fed thru a computer with the chip handed out to the designated winner. Stats are a reflection of the game but are not the game itself. Valuable info? For sure. But to take them as gospel (especially comparing guys in totally different systems) is a mistake.

                            I am am JJ fan btw.
                            I don't think anyone said stats were the gospel, but saying that people should 'ignore stats (for the most part)' isn't telling at all.

                            Nor was Jack being on a bad team necessarily telling. Wouldn't better teammates inflate stats, particularily PGs with better players to pass to and to take the pressure of the guy with the ball in his his hands? That could easily inflate assist totals, fg% and lower turnover rates.

                            Scary thought though. If being on a bad team inflates a players stats - just how much worse and Demar and Bargnani than their stats say, seeing how their numbers have been inflated for the past two years?

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                            • #29
                              I don't think a general "being on a bad team inflates stats" statement is accurate. I think it's mainly relevant with regards to scoring, and only if the offense is run through a player who it normally wouldn't be run through on a more talented team.

                              Due to the Hornets' weak roster, Jack was one of the primary offensive options last season. On most other teams, Jack would be a borderline starter. It seems logical that his scoring benefitted from being on a bad team.

                              As for DeMar and Bargnani, they were both considered top scoring options over the past 2 seasons. But I assume their usage would drop on a more talented team (especially for DeMar). Perhaps being on a poor team has inflated their (scoring) stats as well.

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                              • #30
                                Craiger wrote: View Post
                                I don't think anyone said stats were the gospel, but saying that people should 'ignore stats (for the most part)' isn't telling at all.

                                Nor was Jack being on a bad team necessarily telling. Wouldn't better teammates inflate stats, particularily PGs with better players to pass to and to take the pressure of the guy with the ball in his his hands? That could easily inflate assist totals, fg% and lower turnover rates.

                                Scary thought though. If being on a bad team inflates a players stats - just how much worse and Demar and Bargnani than their stats say, seeing how their numbers have been inflated for the past two years?
                                Not necessarily. Jose was 4th in assists in the league last year and he was on a bad team. Ditto with Deron Williams, and he was 5th.
                                TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

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