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Thread: Feeling down on the Raptors? Please tell me why.

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    This is a great post. Thanks for insights.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    I'm in the same boat as many of the posters here... I have low expectations but am enough of a homer to be excited anyways. So I guess you can say I am pessimistic. This is a tactic I use to root for teams that continually miss the playoffs, never contend, and are a punchline for much of the rest of the league. I convince myself that we will suck, then anything that good that happens is legitimately exciting.

    Here's what I'm excited for:
    • Watching responsible defending
    • The continued maturation of Andrea (all star breakout!??!)
    • The integration of Lowry into our guard rotation
    • Brief glimpses of brilliance from Big Val.


    Here's what I am anticipating with positive vibes, but overly excited about:
    • Watching Amir do Amir things (love that guy)
    • Potentially watching LeBron jump clear over our backup PG and throw down
    • Hopefully seeing that Ross is an upgrade over DeRo
    • The remote chance the Quincy Acy is more beastly than anticipated



    Here's some things I'm pessimistic about:
    • Watching Derozan still be unable to shoot
    • Davis still getting lost to the point that he pulls at least one complete 360 on court each game
    • BC looking stoic in the tunnel while we're getting badly blown out
    • Klieza catching fire for 2 games and then more or less disappearing for the rest of the season
    • Any Aaron Gray sighting
    • Watching a lottery pick go to another team.



    I am really hoping for some nice ball movement on O, and that our guys (Fields, Ross, Klieza, etc) can knock down some open shots. I'm hoping for some hussle rebounds and second chance points thanks to Amir and Val. I'm hoping Bargs and Val can figure out how to defend together, because I think the potential for really solid post D is high, and I'm hoping to see Lowry and Bargs emerge as legit team leaders.

    However... I am not holding my breath because we really havent got any hard evidence (save 11 good Bargs games last season and some nice youtube highlights of Big Val) that anything I'm excited about/hoping for is actually coming. We're leaning on leaders that have not really led before, we are positioned for another PG controversy, we are 1 injury away from being a really, really bad team, and we've got 2 recent lotto picks in key roles that havent shown the progression necessary for them to contribe consistently. And really, how can we be that optimistic about a team that hasn't sniffed the playoffs in the last 4 seasons?

    This is a great post. Thanks for insights.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Reason for pessimism? Well, to the core of the team that could barely win 20 games the last two years they've added: a rookie big man, a rookie swingman, a backup two guard and a PG who apparently is going to be battling for the starting job with Calderon. Not exactly awe-inspiring stuff.

    I'm excited for basketball to start and I can't wait for opening night (I will be at the ACC for the first home game) but I have serious concerns about this roster, especially on the perimeter. And, of course, they still don't have a single elite player and, as I've been repeating ad nauseum for years now, they can't win until they find a star player. So, while I'm excited, the realist in me is pretty cynical.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    We're building a team along the lines of the Indiana Pacers. Good, solid players, deep bench and no stars. While this isn't a recipe for a championship it will at least make us competetive.

  5. #45
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    I'm in the same boat as many of the posters here... I have low expectations but am enough of a homer to be excited anyways. So I guess you can say I am pessimistic. This is a tactic I use to root for teams that continually miss the playoffs, never contend, and are a punchline for much of the rest of the league. I convince myself that we will suck, then anything that good that happens is legitimately exciting.

    Here's what I'm excited for:
    • Watching responsible defending
    • The continued maturation of Andrea (all star breakout!??!)
    • The integration of Lowry into our guard rotation
    • Brief glimpses of brilliance from Big Val.


    Here's what I am anticipating with positive vibes, but overly excited about:
    • Watching Amir do Amir things (love that guy)
    • Potentially watching LeBron jump clear over our backup PG and throw down
    • Hopefully seeing that Ross is an upgrade over DeRo
    • The remote chance the Quincy Acy is more beastly than anticipated



    Here's some things I'm pessimistic about:
    • Watching Derozan still be unable to shoot
    • Davis still getting lost to the point that he pulls at least one complete 360 on court each game
    • BC looking stoic in the tunnel while we're getting badly blown out
    • Klieza catching fire for 2 games and then more or less disappearing for the rest of the season
    • Any Aaron Gray sighting
    • Watching a lottery pick go to another team.



    I am really hoping for some nice ball movement on O, and that our guys (Fields, Ross, Klieza, etc) can knock down some open shots. I'm hoping for some hussle rebounds and second chance points thanks to Amir and Val. I'm hoping Bargs and Val can figure out how to defend together, because I think the potential for really solid post D is high, and I'm hoping to see Lowry and Bargs emerge as legit team leaders.

    However... I am not holding my breath because we really havent got any hard evidence (save 11 good Bargs games last season and some nice youtube highlights of Big Val) that anything I'm excited about/hoping for is actually coming. We're leaning on leaders that have not really led before, we are positioned for another PG controversy, we are 1 injury away from being a really, really bad team, and we've got 2 recent lotto picks in key roles that havent shown the progression necessary for them to contribe consistently. And really, how can we be that optimistic about a team that hasn't sniffed the playoffs in the last 4 seasons?
    I love that haha!

    I think that no one is optimistic really...we just think we are going to be better than last year, which is still bad to mediocre. I think in order for someone to say we are "making progress" would be to watch us improve over the course of a substantial amount of time, which we've never done

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Unless tank-nation is in effect, you NEED a good team to lure stars. So I wouldn't be quick to judge the course of this team just yet..

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Rookie pillowmint's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    JV is the type of player we haven't had since Oakley
    Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahah
    ...AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH (oh no my guts are hurting)

    I would love to see who you'd compare as Anthony Mason....oh you're rich man.

    Look I'm excited, but that's bonker bro. Oakley would smack the air out of your lungs if you looked at him crooked, JV ain't that guy man, I prey he'll be a beast but let's be careful with the comparisons.
    i8theball.com it's a website...about, you know....basketball.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote pillowmint wrote: View Post
    Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahah
    ...AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH (oh no my guts are hurting)

    I would love to see who you'd compare as Anthony Mason....oh you're rich man.

    Look I'm excited, but that's bonker bro. Oakley would smack the air out of your lungs if you looked at him crooked, JV ain't that guy man, I prey he'll be a beast but let's be careful with the comparisons.
    What's hard to believe about comparing the only players in team history who are willing to mix it up and be physical down low? Our franchise has always had soft interior players (from Camby to Bosh to Bargnani with dozens in between). Having a player willing to be that guy down low is something we've sorely missed since Oakley.

    Is JV the exact same person and player as Oakley? No, but that isn't what I said. Perhaps you should think about the context before spouting off. I never suggested that JV would be smacking people for looking at them, I only said that he'd be the physical big man we've lacked for a decade.

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    ...Our franchise has always had soft interior players...Having a player willing to be that guy down low is something we've sorely missed since Oakley.....
    Actually, Davis (Antonio), Willis, Montrose, Zan Tabak and even Oliver Miller weren't afraid to mix it up down low. but I get your point. I am excited to watch JV both play now and develop over the next couple of years. Soooo glad he got a chance to play in the Olympics against the American team so that he doesn't get to the NBA and go "Holy S**t!"

  10. #50
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Actually, Davis (Antonio), Willis, Montrose, Zan Tabak and even Oliver Miller weren't afraid to mix it up down low. but I get your point. I am excited to watch JV both play now and develop over the next couple of years. Soooo glad he got a chance to play in the Olympics against the American team so that he doesn't get to the NBA and go "Holy S**t!"
    Now there's a pair of names I never thought I'd see again, lol.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Rookie pillowmint's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    What's hard to believe about comparing the only players in team history who are willing to mix it up and be physical down low? Our franchise has always had soft interior players (from Camby to Bosh to Bargnani with dozens in between). Having a player willing to be that guy down low is something we've sorely missed since Oakley.

    Is JV the exact same person and player as Oakley? No, but that isn't what I said. Perhaps you should think about the context before spouting off. I never suggested that JV would be smacking people for looking at them, I only said that he'd be the physical big man we've lacked for a decade.
    Ok listen, I'm going to man up and apologize if I offended you, but comparing a tall white guy from Lithuania to Oakley is a strectch in my mind. Also, when you talk about a guy who is willing to mix it up, I'd prefer to see that guy in the NBA before making statements like that. How can we draw comparisons to someone when they haven't even played a game in the NBA yet? Please don't tell me to look at all the Euro footage, because by that notion then AK-47 was the Suge Knight of the league.

    Again, we're all fans and I'm sorry for making a joke out of what you said (seriously). Ultimately, I hope you're right that way we (fans) win!

    Cheers
    i8theball.com it's a website...about, you know....basketball.

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic All-Star brothersteve's Avatar
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    The Raptors got better during the off season, if anything fans should be optimistic, and a number of fan polls support that they are.
    The best Raptors discussion board is at Raptors Republic.

    Stephen Brotherston, Pro Bball Report

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Rookie Sheptor's Avatar
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    I'm excited to watch a full season of nba basketball. A full season of the raptors. The first season in 4 where playoffs were even in sight. A legitimately deep roster no matter how you slice it for the first time since 07.
    Filled seats. Exposure. Meaningful basketball all season and possibly into the postseason.

    We haven't had this much hope or this much of a shot ( on paper ) to reach the playoffs since bosh.

    Nobody should be down.

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Sheptor wrote: View Post
    I'm excited to watch a full season of nba basketball. A full season of the raptors. The first season in 4 where playoffs were even in sight. A legitimately deep roster no matter how you slice it for the first time since 07.
    Filled seats. Exposure. Meaningful basketball all season and possibly into the postseason.

    We haven't had this much hope or this much of a shot ( on paper ) to reach the playoffs since bosh.

    Nobody should be down.
    And 1

  15. #55
    Raptors Republic Starter theycallmeZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Sheptor wrote: View Post
    I'm excited to watch a full season of nba basketball. A full season of the raptors. The first season in 4 where playoffs were even in sight. A legitimately deep roster no matter how you slice it for the first time since 07.
    Filled seats. Exposure. Meaningful basketball all season and possibly into the postseason.

    We haven't had this much hope or this much of a shot ( on paper ) to reach the playoffs since bosh.

    Nobody should be down.
    This is why we need a like button. Get on it mods!
    TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic Rookie JackfromNZ's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    drafting terrence ross over jeremy lamb. for one.
    Child please

  17. #57
    Raptors Republic Starter WhatWhat's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    Defensive regression? They've added a defensive anchor in JV, who may take long to develop but its a step in the right direction. Plus the addition of arguably the best defensive PG in the league in Lowry, who can put plenty of pressure on the oppositions point of attack, as well as keep his man out of the paint. Landry Fields can defend just as good, if not better than JJ, minus the blocked shots. And Terrence Ross is surprisingly very aggressive and willing on the defensive end. I don't know exactly how they will fare defensively this season, but I think it's safe to say that they havent regressed in that part of the game.
    Rookies simply are not very impactful. In fact, they are usually inefficient and struggle on defense. If they do become impactful, they are either surefire stars or in a small role. Jonas will be a prime example of a rookie's struggles. It would be a miracle if he isn't fouling at high Amir-like rates in his first season. He still really needs to hit the gym, in fact he should actually take an entire offseason just to focus on gain strength. But his national team wiil b!tch at him, even though it would benefit them (and the Raptors) long-term...and he barely played anyway.

    Casey's himself is anticipating the defense to regress (3:20 mark).

    Lowry's presence is negated by Bargnani being healthy and the loss of JJ... and replacing him with Fields. Fields isn't any nearly as good as a defender as JJ is. More importantly, with Bargnani back, we'd NEED JJ's excellent help defense.

    Long term, we should be better. But THIS season, we will likely regress defensively, while becoming better offensively.

  18. #58
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote WhatWhat wrote: View Post
    ...More importantly, with Bargnani back, we'd NEED JJ's excellent help defense...
    "Warning, warning, warning young Will Robinson. My sensors indicate a credibility vortex is approaching. Ignore previous post. Warning, warning, warning!"

  19. #59
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    I'm pessimistic because there isn't much reason for optimism.

    The team as constituted:

    Bargs: an incredibly skilled big who is defensively unreliable and a historically poor rebounder
    DeRozan: a hard-working kid with big ups who can't really shoot from range and can't get his shot off against above-average defenders
    Amir: a great 7th or 8th guy
    JV: a rookie center, who, even if he pans out, will need 3-5 years to develop. Haven't seen too much from the kid yet.
    Weak at the 3.
    An above average (10-15th ranked) point guard and trade bait backup


    This lineup scares no one.

    Other reasons for dismay:

    An improved but still very average bench
    A GM who clearly doesn't have a plan. His pursuit of Nash showed as much.
    No all-star talent since CB4 and none in the works. Bargs playing well for 13 games does not count. JV is a question mark.
    A team/city that's held in poor regard by other players
    Other teams in our division improving and/or having deep pockets
    A fan base that overestimates its chances/talent, underestimates the talent on other teams, and always hopes for next year

  20. #60
    Raptors Republic Rookie Sheptor's Avatar
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    Quote Copywryter wrote: View Post
    I'm pessimistic because there isn't much reason for optimism.

    The team as constituted:

    Bargs: an incredibly skilled big who is defensively unreliable and a historically poor rebounder
    DeRozan: a hard-working kid with big ups who can't really shoot from range and can't get his shot off against above-average defenders
    Amir: a great 7th or 8th guy
    JV: a rookie center, who, even if he pans out, will need 3-5 years to develop. Haven't seen too much from the kid yet.
    Weak at the 3.
    An above average (10-15th ranked) point guard and trade bait backup


    This lineup scares no one.

    Other reasons for dismay:

    An improved but still very average bench
    A GM who clearly doesn't have a plan. His pursuit of Nash showed as much.
    No all-star talent since CB4 and none in the works. Bargs playing well for 13 games does not count. JV is a question mark.
    A team/city that's held in poor regard by other players
    Other teams in our division improving and/or having deep pockets
    A fan base that overestimates its chances/talent, underestimates the talent on other teams, and always hopes for next year
    Why is it only our rookie big from overseas needs 3-5 years to develop? Yet Anthony Davis is supposed to come in and Rock the house, Kidd- gilchrist, lillard etc.

    Developing and contributing are used interchangeably and JV in my estimation will contribute big time this season. It may take him 3-5 seasons to reach his max potential/ development but putting it your way sounds like he'll be an araujo until the magic year 3,4 or 5.

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