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Thread: The wing players

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Rookie Deanialist's Avatar
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    Default The wing players

    I know for most of the season since Jose was injured most of us thought we might benefit from trading Jose for a starting shooting guard (of which untill recently I was all for it!)

    I'm saying now we should hold on to these young wings Beli, Wright, Weems & DeRozan are an exellent group of young talented wing players! Let them play through it! (meaning there mistakes) lets sign all 4 to cheep long term deals!

    Turk is another story even though he had a great game against NY...If I had it my way, BC would have him on the trading black ASAP just so the 4 wings would get more PT!

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    Default .

    I agree with keeping them, SG/SF by committee is FTW. They all provide different positive attributes, and don't use up too many touches.

    Belli = Poor man's Ginobili
    Wright = Poor man's Bowen
    Weems = Poor man's Wade
    Derozan = Poor man's ..Josh Howard?

    Let's let them hold the fort, rather than overpaying for Caron or something. I'm really impressed by all of our wings. Wright in particular, if he can continue playing under control on offense can have a very long career in the league.

    I'd rather not trade Turk, he is one of the better SFs in the league, and has lots of quality playoff experience. You need someone like this to provide veteran leadership. 10 mil a year for him if he can average 15/5/5 and play hard is good value.

    Calderon..he runs the second unit well and has amazing chemistry with Amir. Still, if the opportunity comes to clear him off our books and get a good asset back, I think it would be wise to do so.

    One mistake we must NOT make this offseason is to overpay roleplayers. We can spend the offseason signing the equivalent of any of Belli, Wright and Weems, then give them a season to develop. Gotta keep the books balanced..

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Rookie Prophet2k's Avatar
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    if Bosh resigns then the raps may be stuck resigning their own free agents cause they will be over the cap and can't sign free agents except on minimum deals. BTW only Wright, Johnson, Rasho, and POB are actually free agents this offseason. Weems they can sign for another year for a measley 800k which they probably will, Bellinelli is on the books till 2011 and he becomes a restricted for 2011-12, derozan is on a rookie contract till potentially 2013-14. I think Wright will bolt cuz he is not getting the minutes he wants. The million dollar question that should be on everyone's mind is what will O'bryant do? Maybe they should trade him before the deadline cuz he hates canada...
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    Wright has bounced around a lot in this league (NJ->Dallas->Toronto), and best case will turn himself into a Bruce Bowen type. Such people don't get massive playing time, or at least he won't get more elsewhere than he gets here.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Raśl's Avatar
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    Quote Prophet2k wrote: View Post
    if Bosh resigns then the raps may be stuck resigning their own free agents cause they will be over the cap and can't sign free agents except on minimum deals. BTW only Wright, Johnson, Rasho, and POB are actually free agents this offseason. Weems they can sign for another year for a measley 800k which they probably will, Bellinelli is on the books till 2011 and he becomes a restricted for 2011-12, derozan is on a rookie contract till potentially 2013-14. I think Wright will bolt cuz he is not getting the minutes he wants. The million dollar question that should be on everyone's mind is what will O'bryant do? Maybe they should trade him before the deadline cuz he hates canada...
    No way POB' futures deserves a million dollar question

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    Raptors Republic Rookie MattyG-Ray's Avatar
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    I like our combination of wing players, but I still feel we would be better off with Wright starting in place of Derozan. Wright is by far our best perimeter defender, and should be seeing the majority of the minutes against other teams top players. His ability to hit the corner three will also provide a little more spacing then Derozan does. I like Derozan in a backup role, coming off the bench to play with Marco, Amir, and Jose, and hopefully they can get up and down the court, where they can all be so effective.
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    I agree that Demar isn't a starting caliber wing. But we need to get 20 minutes a game of PT so he can develop. The 20 minutes of PT against starters is higher than 20 minutes against bench players. Moreover, as a 5th option he can focus on defense and getting points opportunistically w/o using too many possessions. There is no point in him playing as the first option against bench players when he will be at best a 4th option with the starters.

    With 20 minutes for Demar, 35 for Hedo, there are 41 wing minutes remaining. Wright and Belli should be seeing the lion's share of the minutes, with spot minutes for Weems situationally.

    Tbh, much as I like Weems, he will need to put in massive effort in the offseason to stick around. Great defender, but huge liability on offense. I hope he realizes how much work he will have to put in this offseason..

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    Raptors Republic Rookie MattyG-Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Ripp wrote: View Post
    I agree that Demar isn't a starting caliber wing. But we need to get 20 minutes a game of PT so he can develop. The 20 minutes of PT against starters is higher than 20 minutes against bench players. Moreover, as a 5th option he can focus on defense and getting points opportunistically w/o using too many possessions. There is no point in him playing as the first option against bench players when he will be at best a 4th option with the starters.

    With 20 minutes for Demar, 35 for Hedo, there are 41 wing minutes remaining. Wright and Belli should be seeing the lion's share of the minutes, with spot minutes for Weems situationally.

    Tbh, much as I like Weems, he will need to put in massive effort in the offseason to stick around. Great defender, but huge liability on offense. I hope he realizes how much work he will have to put in this offseason..
    I view coming off the bench as better for Demar, because he is likely to get more looks on offense. The first option amongst Demar, Marco, Amir, and Jose, is likely going to be Marco, next Jose, then followed by Demar, but the difference between them would like be minimal. 20 minutes playing against bench players is going to get Demar more looks on offense, and he should have an easier time attacking his man off the dribble and getting to the rim. DD just isn't a starting caliber player in this league yet. I would prefer to get him 15-20 minutes a game against people closer to his skill level where he can have the ball in his hands a little more. I think 20 minutes off the bench is actually more valuable then 20 minutes with the starters, because I feel he would be much more involved in the game. With the starters, he really gets no chance to handle the ball, or develop his offensive game.

    I agree that his development is very important, and giving him at least 15 minutes a game is a must right now. But I think the team has a better chance at winning with Wright in the starting lineup, and when we get to the playoffs, Demar's development can not be a priority. Wright has playoff experience, and his defense will be needed against Joe Johnson, Vince Carter, Lebron, Allen, or Pierce.

    You said you would rather have him as 4th or 5th option, then 1st or 2nd option, why? Wouldn't we want him to get him touches on offense?
    Last edited by MattyG-Ray; Sat Jan 30th, 2010 at 06:04 PM.
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    Really can't criticize anything about the way Triano has handled DeRozan's minutes. Matter of fact, only critique I have heard questioned is why not more DD in the 4th quarter.

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    @Matty:
    Here in my mind is what Demar needs to improve on:
    1) Defense.
    2) Shooting.
    3) Ball handling.

    Items 2 and 3 are best improved in the gym, not playing with the second unit. Item 1 is best improved by playing with the first unit. I don't see what playing against bench players has to offer him.

    At this point, he is a severe offensive liability. Only touches he needs are those he gets via the alley oops, opportunistic slashing, etc. Basically feeding off the attention paid to Bosh and the rest.

    Don't get me wrong btw, I like him a lot and feel his work ethic will allow him to improve. But he is still extremely raw right now. And if we want to win games, we can't give him too many touches.

    As you say, when playoff time comes, Wright might become the starter. At least, that would be logical.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Rookie MattyG-Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Ripp wrote: View Post
    @Matty:
    Here in my mind is what Demar needs to improve on:
    1) Defense.
    2) Shooting.
    3) Ball handling.

    Items 2 and 3 are best improved in the gym, not playing with the second unit. Item 1 is best improved by playing with the first unit. I don't see what playing against bench players has to offer him.

    At this point, he is a severe offensive liability. Only touches he needs are those he gets via the alley oops, opportunistic slashing, etc. Basically feeding off the attention paid to Bosh and the rest.

    Don't get me wrong btw, I like him a lot and feel his work ethic will allow him to improve. But he is still extremely raw right now. And if we want to win games, we can't give him too many touches.

    As you say, when playoff time comes, Wright might become the starter. At least, that would be logical.
    But I don't think that is logical. Why would you switch a guy into or out of the starting lineup when you have played all 82 games a different way. The only two teams that I can remember doing that were the Raps two years ago against Orlando (lost series) and Dallas a couple years ago against Golden St (lost series as a number one seed against number 8 seed).

    I don't necessarily see how playing against 1st units makes DD a better defender. His perimeter defense is good for a rookie, he just needs time to adjust to the pace of the NBA game a bit more. Besides, even as a second unit guy, he will get time against the premier players in this league, since they all play 35 minutes, and Wright isn't likely to see any more than 25. I think his team defense needs the most improvement. How to direct his player to the help, and stuff like that.

    I think his outside shooting is a weakness, but his mid range game is very good. Both his ability to pull up off the dribble, and shootoff the dribble.

    His ball handling also needs improvement, but its not stopping him from taking his man off the dribble or getting out in transition. I have rarely seen him loose control of the ball this season.

    I think the best place for him is playing along side Jose and Marco, pushing the ball up the court in transition. But to be honest, I really don't think we can say for either scenario, that it will most certainly be better for his development. My main point is that Wright is a much better defender and three point shooter than Demar, and that makes him a much better fit for The Raptors starting lineup. I think this becomes especially true in the Playoffs. So, with that in mind, I think the team should start Wright. Not because Demar is a better fit with the second unit, but because Wright is a better fit with the starting unit. If this were to happen, the coaching staff would need to sit down with Demar, and explain the move to him in a way not to shatter his confidence.
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    When would you suggest making this lineup change? Immediately? Or with 20 games remaining in the season..?

    I'm not opposed to inserting Wright into the starting lineup if he will be poor man's Bowen. But he needs to play within himself and should only be shooting open shots. No more crazy dribble penetration.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie MattyG-Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Ripp wrote: View Post
    When would you suggest making this lineup change? Immediately? Or with 20 games remaining in the season..?

    I'm not opposed to inserting Wright into the starting lineup if he will be poor man's Bowen. But he needs to play within himself and should only be shooting open shots. No more crazy dribble penetration.
    Agreed. Wright needs to play under control. I think this will be easier for him playing alongside the starters. He won't think he needs to do as much on the offensive end.

    I would make the change now. Have Wright start against Indy on Sunday, and when DD comes back, he comes off the bench. Depending on how long DD is out, he might need a game or two to get his legs and timing back anyways.
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