Vince Carter body slammed Sam Mitchell?

[blackjitsu]

Well, I tried. It's mad slow right now.

[white men can't jump]

Now Imagine this fool in the locker room with a young passive 20 year old european still grasping english who doesn't rebound...oh and is 7 feet. No wonder Andrea was stagnant his first two seasons. Was probably afraid to get a choke slam through a medics table, or a chair to the back at practice.

Mitchell had a huge ego, he was a former player who acted as if he was hall of fame material in his day and always seemed to have this " I know something you don't know" demeanor about basketball.

Vince was long gone by the time Andrea was drafted.....

[Raptorfanatic]

Great thread......didn't know about Carter-Mitchell confrontation. I wonder if Rose had some insight (not publicly known )about circumstances that led to Raptors dumping Vince.

[Sheptor]

Vince was long gone by the time Andrea was drafted.....

I'm referring to Mitchell here.

[p00ka]

Whoa. That's a bridge too far. NCAA players play a lot less games a year. Coming out the Euroleague you are a professional, have more than 1 2hr practice a day. You play in three leagues, and if you are good enough to get drafted you are also part of your country's national system. You can't compare the development of an amateur with a professional in a legit league. Well you can, but it's a non-starter. Unless the kid played for Texas Tech they are protected from abuse, have responsibilities like classes, etc.

On average NCAA kids appear to develop into better players, however, professionals should be further along on average in their development than amateurs when they first start. At least that's what logic would dictate. If we look at soccer for instance, North American kids who play their youth soccer in Europe tend to become better professionals than kids who go through the NCAA, and then MLS into Europe. Why? Because the kids who go over early are immersed in a professional environment.

As far as the language thing. Someone like Bargs was probably spotted as a potential NBA player when he was 14, or 15 -- look at Canada's Wiggins for example, hell look at Big Val! So he's playing pro ball on a team with English speaking teammates, knows he has to learn English at a decent age, and if he's not confident in his English he can pull out of the draft, or stay in Europe until he's ready.

Finally, he's from Europe. If you've lived, visited, have friends from there you already know this but its worth stating: You can travel to other countries for cheap, and neighboring countries can be vastly different from one another. The idea of culture shock, because he hasn't seen different cultures than his own...I can't buy it. Kid is doing okay financially, it's not like he couldn't have flown family over if this was an issue, and trust me if he needed some home cooking half of this board could find an Italian family to fill his belly. Toronto isn't Milwaukee, if you're home sick you can find people from your background.

It's not like rims are lower in Europe or something. And even if I accepted your excuses the fact remains that the primary thing that stunted Bargs' development was him playing the 5. He's officially been a 4 for what, 2 seasons? And dude is about to go beast on people (I'm not his biggest fan and even I see it coming -- barring injuries).

My excuses? I didn't make any, so don't know what you speak of accepting or not. I was responding to you're over-simplification of the adjustments that a young Euro has to make in coming to the NBA. You spoke only of language and travel. Language, as I pointed out is far less of a problem for the American kids, and their travel isn't that much less than Andrea was doing in Europe. His total pro games his last two seasons were 46 & 47, 10 more than most college kids, but a far cry from the 82 in the NBA, traveling far greater distances.

Of course their are other factors, which have been argued ad nauseum, but I have no desire to battle 6 year old naive arguments that include such things as implying that there's as much culture shock from his Italian home, while playing 20 games in Spain/Greece/France, as there is being across the pond permanently and playing 82 games in North America. To suggest that some Italian home cooking could have taken care of cultural shock is damn laughable though. Thanks for the chuckle.

[Soft Euro]

You talk like you've spend too much time arguing in the comment-section on the front page.

[themasao]

This was a related article linked to the one posted earlier. Can't help but think it might have been the lowest point in Raptors history: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1988622

Just to emphasize: *Eric Williams* was demanding a trade. That bad.

[Brandon]

Mitchell should have been fired. That's not an appropriate way to behave or to treat players, especially players who are the primary reason you're winning games, if you are winning games.

Can anybody imagine John Wooden, Scotty Bowman, Adolph Rupp, Dean Smith, or the great Paul Bryant et al. doing something like this? Just another example of what an amateurish organization this has always been.

BTW, this hold is called a "fireman's carry", as illustrated in the cartoon, not a body slam.

[blackjitsu]

My excuses? I didn't make any, so don't know what you speak of accepting or not. I was responding to you're over-simplification of the adjustments that a young Euro has to make in coming to the NBA. You spoke only of language and travel. Language, as I pointed out is far less of a problem for the American kids, and their travel isn't that much less than Andrea was doing in Europe. His total pro games his last two seasons were 46 & 47, 10 more than most college kids, but a far cry from the 82 in the NBA, traveling far greater distances.

Of course their are other factors, which have been argued ad nauseum, but I have no desire to battle 6 year old naive arguments that include such things as implying that there's as much culture shock from his Italian home, while playing 20 games in Spain/Greece/France, as there is being across the pond permanently and playing 82 games in North America. To suggest that some Italian home cooking could have taken care of cultural shock is damn laughable though. Thanks for the chuckle.

You're the laughable one. You are incredibly naive. I AM AN IMMIGRANT. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. I have close friends who talk to their loved ones via skype, video conference, etc...this isn't the 1800s. You're talking about a rich young man who has more resources than any of us, who was so "culture shocked" that he's a permanent resident. That's right, he pays his taxes in Canada! Oh my god, he must of had it so rough...Food makes A BIG DIFFERENCE. From my personal experience the most difficult thing to find in a new country is legitimate food. Not Westernized food, but the real, legit food. It took me literally a decade to find places that make my culture's real food in this city, and not some bad facsimile.

To someone like you that has never lived anywhere accept the country you call home food may be a petty thing, but speaking as an immigrant, food is an incredibly important thing. I can call, facebook, you name it friends, I can make local friends, but authentic food is the heart of many cultures. Sadly, Canadian cuisine is taken for granted, but don't put your childish ideals of food on others. And I hope you are mature enough to respect someone who has actually experienced "culture shock." As far as the games played you're missing the point.

Euroleague teams practice significantly more than North American teams. Those practices do take a toll on the body. Also you need to add international, and European tournaments to your totals. While western players are given time to recover from their seasons European players do not.

My question is why are you bringing this back up when, if you read all the posts, I had moved on?

Back to Smitch getting bodyslammed -- Does anyone think Sam will talk about this? Someone in the Toronto media is definitely going to bring it up.

[p00ka]

@ blackjitsu

You know less about me than you know about what personal and professional adjustments AB did or did not struggle with, and that knowledge amounts to zero, so spare me the sanctimony about your unfounded views of my immigration status and "ideals of food".

So back to Smitch : who do you think the Toronto media is surely going to bring it up with? I may be mistaken, but I don't think anybody in the current organization was around back then, so I see no point in anybody raising it with anybody here now, especially with it being old news around these parts.

[minks77]

Man, Anyone who isn't listening to Jalen and Jacoby giving the people what they want every week on the Jalen Rose Show from Grantland is sorely missing out. Always was a Jalen fan but since I found this about a year ago it's gone to a whole new level. Funny as hell, talks about all kinds of things candidly (the 81 pts, how shit Smitch was, stepping under Kobe, Fab Five days, player trades...) that you never hear guys be so frank about. So refreshing in this day and age of "brand" protection and prewritten soundbites.

Gotta check it out, if just for the stories about Champagnin' and Campaignin', Imports and The Mansion. Only thing he's not touched on so far is Skip.

[CT2010]

What I find interesting about this thread is that everyone is bashing Sam, but no one has mentioned that he was probably in the right for calling VC out for being a pussy. I agree that you probably shouldn't get in to fist fights with your team, but after reading all the shit that you guys have posted on here about VC quiting on the team etc. I would have thought that someone would have applauded Mitchell for being right.

It is clear that Mitchell had limited talent and skills on the court, but he was all heart and hustle and that is how he survived in the NBA. How do you think he felt seeing a kid who was all talent and no heart wasting his abilities, quiting on his team, faking injuries to avoid playing etc. I don't remember VC's "jumper's knee" recurring after Toronto.

Just my take on it.

[Seeten]

Man, Anyone who isn't listening to Jalen and Jacoby giving the people what they want every week on the Jalen Rose Show from Grantland is sorely missing out. Always was a Jalen fan but since I found this about a year ago it's gone to a whole new level. Funny as hell, talks about all kinds of things candidly (the 81 pts, how shit Smitch was, stepping under Kobe, Fab Five days, player trades...) that you never hear guys be so frank about. So refreshing in this day and age of "brand" protection and prewritten soundbites.

Gotta check it out, if just for the stories about Champagnin' and Campaignin', Imports and The Mansion. Only thing he's not touched on so far is Skip.

They had a Skip story about 6 months ago, where he told the story about how Skip tried to freeze him and Mo out in the first half, and got told at half that if he didn't start passing, he was gonna spend the second half riding the pine. I believe this is also the game where Rafer threatened to retire afterward.

Yeah, been listening since the original podcast. Good stuff.

[AlienOverlord]

" Michelle Carter also spoke with reporters in New Jersey after the Spurs-Nets game.

"I did not say it was a fight," she said. "I want to clarify that. I wasn't there, I'm just going by what Sam Mitchell said and what Vince Carter told me." "

Is it strange that his mom calls him Vince Carter?

[sleepz]

Sorry, have to call you out. Everything you said about Smitch is fiction created in your head. Let's look at facts.

1 This player with a huge ego gave up his starting position so that a High School kid could start over him. To this day while working on NBA TV and radio he admits that he was a mediocre player. I think you're confusing volume with ego.

2 The best "Euro" team the Raps have had was coached by Smitch. Matter of fact, if you followed Euroleague you would know that most of the teams have coaches closer to him than your standard "player's coach" that you find in the NBA. If anything, Bargs should be used to even louder coaches.

3 The biggest thing that hurt Bargs development was the false pretense that he was a Center. No matter what the coach thinks, if the people above tell him to play him as a 5 that's what the coach has to do. Bargs never was a 5. We needed a 5. We drafted a 4, and then tried to sell him as a 5 to please naive fans. It didn't work,and our best player took his talents.....

Let me make this clear, in no way do I believe that Sam Mitchell should be coaching. But character assassination to feed your ego is just as reprehensible as some of the technical, personnel, and clock management mistakes the man consistently made.

+1

Tell it like it is.

The litany of excuses for #7 continues!

[sleepz]

yeah, damn sports mentality! Makes ya wonder about the excuses for American rookies. They're already used to travel in the NCAA, have been speaking the language of choice all their lives, and yet so few do their job well when they come into the league. I don't understand why they're given so much time to get up to speed when they have no adjustments to make.

Perhaps. But most of these American rooks don't take 7 years to get acclimated into the league.

[Letter N]

Perhaps. But most of these American rooks don't take 7 years to get acclimated into the league.

It didn't take Gallinari 7 years either. Andrea is just special.
He's our special little guy.



I'm gonna go drink

[minks77]

Damn I missed that one. Time to go diggin in the eCrates

[DoNDaDDa]

What I find interesting about this thread is that everyone is bashing Sam, but no one has mentioned that he was probably in the right for calling VC out for being a pussy. I agree that you probably shouldn't get in to fist fights with your team, but after reading all the shit that you guys have posted on here about VC quiting on the team etc. I would have thought that someone would have applauded Mitchell for being right.

It is clear that Mitchell had limited talent and skills on the court, but he was all heart and hustle and that is how he survived in the NBA. How do you think he felt seeing a kid who was all talent and no heart wasting his abilities, quiting on his team, faking injuries to avoid playing etc. I don't remember VC's "jumper's knee" recurring after Toronto.

Just my take on it.

i was just thinking the same thing..

VC was always hurt & in the last season here clearly mailed it in most games he did play... to bad Smitch couldnt back up the talk though... it would have been nice to see Smitch Slam VC into the trainers table instead...VC his whole carreer has been the type to need an extra kick in the ass to play hard... ask Oakley!...VC is a douche
imagine how many nights VC would have mailed it in if Triano was the head coach back then! LOL that would have been scary to see

[p00ka]

+1

Tell it like it is.

The litany of excuses for #7 continues!

you might have a point,,,,,,, if anyone was making excuses