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Thread: Bosh is an Average Defender.

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Starter Edgar's Avatar
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    Default Bosh is an Average Defender.

    I have to get this off my chest...

    Bargs is a superior defender to Bosh. That being said Bosh is not any worse than an average PF defender. He (like Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and any other heavily used star) has to pick and choose his spots when it comes to gambling defensively since, you know, he’s expected to log 40mpg and contribute 23/11/1blk/2ast every night – hence why Triano uses Bargs against EVERY team’s dominant offensive big. If he has to pick which one fouls out and who finishes the game, Bosh is always going to be his priority.

    If you break down the percentage of good/average/poor defensive plays made by any superstar you’ll find yourself watching ALOT of plays where relative shmoe’s like Demar Derozan blow by Lebron on the baseline like he's Jose Calderon (remember that?).

    EVERY superstar takes a good chunk of their defensive assignments off to preserve offensive stamina during the regular season. Watch the difference between Kobe/Lebron/Wade regular season and Kobe/Lebron/Wade playoffs…

    I'm not saying it's right - It just happens.
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    Raptors Republic Rookie shadow warrior's Avatar
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    I don't know man,
    but I think of the MJs, the KGs, the Duncans and others,
    and they played great D while contributing heavily on offense on a regular basis.
    I can't see any reason why a star, or any player can't be effective on both ends of the floor.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Prophet2k's Avatar
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    It seems that somewhere along the way Bargnani became a better defender then Bosh. But I dont think anyone can argue that Bosh is one of the rebounding leaders of the league. Bosh is no chump on lateral quicks and vertical hops but now that he's lost all the muscle he put on in the offseason he can't handle a true big in the post. Heck Bargnani can't really handle a Shaq, or Bogut, or Perkins, but he does a better job than CB. Few and far between are the guys who got it all like Tim Duncan or Gary Payton in his day.

    Note: I didn't include Dwight Howard in the power big man discussion because he is the most glorified garbage bucket player in the league. Guy has no offensive game other than get the offensive board and throw down a nasty looking dunk.
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    Raptors Republic Starter Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote shadow warrior wrote: View Post
    I don't know man,
    but I think of the MJs, the KGs, the Duncans and others,
    and they played great D while contributing heavily on offense on a regular basis.
    I see where you're coming from, but I have a feeling selective memory/legend status has something to do with that general opinion.... the longer they're gone, the better they seem to get... but Duncan gets beat plenty on the defensive side - Bosh and Bargs have both shook him out of his shorts on occation - It's just the clutch moments and playoff performance (think Bargs against the Knicks last week) that seem to form the consensus opinions on defense...
    When Tom Chambers dunks an NBA player gets their hops...

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    Raptors Republic Rookie JibbaJabba34's Avatar
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    Quote Prophet2k wrote: View Post
    Note: I didn't include Dwight Howard in the power big man discussion because he is the most glorified garbage bucket player in the league. Guy has no offensive game other than get the offensive board and throw down a nasty looking dunk.
    Ummm... gotta really disagree with you on this one. Howard has changed his offensive game from ONLY dunking on everyone to being able to create off post moves and running hook shots. He has some really nice new post moves this season that Patrick Ewing has worked with him on. He has that running hook shot that is becoming one of his go to moves now but really, he's getting some really nice spin moves and pivot moves that create great baby hooks or dunks for him now. Just because he finishes with a thunderous dunks doesn't mean that he isn't making a great move to get that close to the rim in order to dunk it. Every big man in the league can hammer a dunk when they are 2 feet away from it, but not every player can get themselves open 2 feet from the rim in order to dunk the ball. I think Howard is one of the top players in the post and that isn't because he's just strong and athletic, it's because he can get to the basket and finish. Don't hate on him because he doesn't have a 10 or 15 foot jumpshot, or that he doesn't dribble drive the ball to the basket. He's a powerful center like Shaq in his prime. He makes post moves and he's very good at it.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I don't see many people ever suggesting Bosh is anything but an average defender.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie MattyG-Ray's Avatar
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    I have to disagree in general. Bargs is pretty good individual post defender. But really struggles on the pick and roll, his rotations on help defense are awful, and he often looks lost when required to switch. Bosh isn't as good a post defender, but superior guarding on the perimeter. He is also better on the pick and roll, providing help, and switching.

    The thing i notice the most with Bargs, is lack of communication. He struggles on the pick and roll because he doesn't hedge well, and then when a team mate helps on the guy rolling into the paint, Bargs often looks confused, and struggles to find his new check.

    Andrea is getting better defensively, but there are so many responsibilities on a post defender in the NBA, and it takes a long time to feel comfortable and become a good defender. If he continues to work hard and listen to his coaches, he will become a good defender. Right now though, I will still give Bosh the edge on defense.

    Finally, Kobe, LeBron, Duncan, those are three examples of players who are great on both ends of the floor. Duncan I think would be the best defender of that group, and a guy who was the center of his teams defense and offense for a decade.
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    Raptors Republic Rookie shadow warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Edgar wrote: View Post
    I see where you're coming from, but I have a feeling selective memory/legend status has something to do with that general opinion.... the longer they're gone, the better they seem to get... but Duncan gets beat plenty on the defensive side - Bosh and Bargs have both shook him out of his shorts on occation - It's just the clutch moments and playoff performance (think Bargs against the Knicks last week) that seem to form the consensus opinions on defense...
    In his prime, no way our bigs beat Duncan.
    I understand that some players need to reserve their legs on offense,
    and somehow I agree with you on that regard.
    And l heard CB played great D in Beijing.

    I guess Chris needs a good conditioning coach then.
    heck, if LBJ (I know, he's a freak) can do it, maybe CB can, as well.

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    Super Moderator .40 Cal Flakes's Avatar
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    Quote JibbaJabba34 wrote: View Post
    Ummm... gotta really disagree with you on this one. Howard has changed his offensive game from ONLY dunking on everyone to being able to create off post moves and running hook shots. He has some really nice new post moves this season that Patrick Ewing has worked with him on. He has that running hook shot that is becoming one of his go to moves now but really, he's getting some really nice spin moves and pivot moves that create great baby hooks or dunks for him now. Just because he finishes with a thunderous dunks doesn't mean that he isn't making a great move to get that close to the rim in order to dunk it. Every big man in the league can hammer a dunk when they are 2 feet away from it, but not every player can get themselves open 2 feet from the rim in order to dunk the ball. I think Howard is one of the top players in the post and that isn't because he's just strong and athletic, it's because he can get to the basket and finish. Don't hate on him because he doesn't have a 10 or 15 foot jumpshot, or that he doesn't dribble drive the ball to the basket. He's a powerful center like Shaq in his prime. He makes post moves and he's very good at it.
    Not to mention he's learning to bank shots off the glass fairly nicely a la Timmy Duncan.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote shadow warrior wrote: View Post
    In his prime, no way our bigs beat Duncan.
    I understand that some players need to reserve their legs on offense,
    and somehow I agree with you on that regard.
    And l heard CB played great D in Beijing.

    I guess Chris needs a good conditioning coach then.
    heck, if LBJ (I know, he's a freak) can do it, maybe CB can, as well.
    Yes Duncan has gotten abused before by many players inferior to him. And you cant tell me you've watched Lebron play and not noticed him get beat, get lazy fouls, gamble and lose, etc... for christ sake even Derozan walked around him like a pylon going baseline the last game we played them...

    The NBA. Where Selective memory happens...
    When Tom Chambers dunks an NBA player gets their hops...

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    Raptors Republic Rookie shadow warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Edgar wrote: View Post
    Yes Duncan has gotten abused before by many players inferior to him. And you cant tell me you've watched Lebron play and not noticed him get beat, get lazy fouls, gamble and lose, etc... for christ sake even Derozan walked around him like a pylon going baseline the last game we played them...

    The NBA. Where Selective memory happens...
    Wow, are talking about the same TD here?
    The TD who was a perennial ALL DEFENSIVE TEAM?
    The one who averages close to three blocks per game?
    We are talking about his prime, no way Bosh or Bargs beats him then.
    Of course, once in a while, someone might score off him,
    but generally, TD was a beast on Defense.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie JibbaJabba34's Avatar
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    Quote .40 Cal Flakes wrote: View Post
    Not to mention he's learning to bank shots off the glass fairly nicely a la Timmy Duncan.
    Nobody does the robotic bank shot better than Duncan! Yes, Howard is starting to use that more often too.

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