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Thread: Toronto/Denver/Chicago

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    Default Toronto/Denver/Chicago

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9slh7y2

    Toronto Sends: Calderon, Bargnani, Davis
    Toronto Receives: Deng, Faried, $10M TPE (Denver)

    Rational:
    The Raps get their stud SF. Assuming Memphis makes Gay untouchable, the only stud SF that I see on the market potentially is Deng (Iggy just got traded to Denver, JSmoove is more of a 4, Batum just got resigned by Portland). I love Faried's game. He's only 6'7 but is tenacious. Can easily give you a double/double and is only in his second year so his young (22) and in a rookie contract. The $10M TPE could also be used to help land a SG in case DeMar signs an offer sheet with another team in the off season, and Toronto doesn't match.

    Chicago Sends: Deng, $3.2M TPE
    Chicago Receives: Calderon, Brewer, Davis

    Rational:
    The Bulls are nearing luxury tax territory, and even if they considered amnestying Boozer they would have to owe him his salary still (and I doubt Reinsdorf would want to pay a guy to go away). Rose may be out for the year, and they have depth issues (they lost Asik, Brewer, and Korver this year). This trade nets them a starting caliber point guard, a young PF that gives them depth and a wing that Thibs would probably love to have on his team.

    Denver Sends: Faried, Brewer, $10M TPE
    Denver Receives: Bargnani, $3.2M TPE (Chicago)

    Rational:
    Bargnani's market is probably thin in the league. He needs to play with a center who is defensively stellar (ie, has great weak side defense and plays back to the basket)...

    I considered only three teams that would work for Bargnani:
    - LAL with Howard - however they already have Gasol and no assets to give back in a trade.
    - Philly with Bynum, however I don't see any assets that I like plus they are in our division.
    - Denver who has both McGee and Iggy (for rebounding/defense). I actually think Denver would be a perfect spot for Andrea. He gets to play with Gallo.. would be a good complement to McGee who is a great weak-side defender. I think Denver would have the perfect blend of offense and defense with Andrea.

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    Barring some areas, in my opinion this is a good Trade. The only parts that I disagree with is that Toronto I think is getting a little too much and Denver isn't getting enough. The change that I would make is let Denver keep it's $10M TPE which I think makes it fair for all teams. Overall though, good job.
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    Barring some areas, in my opinion this is a good Trade. The only parts that I disagree with is that Toronto I think is getting a little too much and Denver isn't getting enough. The change that I would make is let Denver keep it's $10M TPE which I think makes it fair for all teams. Overall though, good job.
    Thanks! The TPE is needed or else Denver would have to unload an additional $5M+ salary in order to be able to do that trade. (Bargnani = $10M, Brewer+Faried = $4.5M)

    The only thing I'm still unsure of is if the package would be good enough for Deng. Chicago already has two PF's in Boozer and Gibson, so Davis doesn't really offer much.

    I'd be willing to swap Davis with Ross to give Chicago two wings (Ross + Brewer) with Calderon, plus throw in one or both 2nd round picks. Fields can then backup DeMar at the SG spot. Ross would be enticing (rookie with promise, can shoot from the outside and has a defensive IQ). Big gamble to trade a lottery pick but Deng is a sure thing, IMO. By including Ross instead of Davis though, we'd still have a logjam at PF with Davis, Amir, Faried, and Acy (not to mention Kleiza).

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    Wonder if it'll work if the $10M TPE is sent to Chicago and the 3.2 to Denver as you've posted with Toronto receiving nothing. I say this 'cause getting Deng and a bright prospect like Faried for Jose. Andrea and Davis is fair enough a deal for Toronto and any more would be a little too much.

    As far as Chicago's PF log jam is concerned, yes Boozer and Gibson would handle PF duties but Davis in my opinion could still fit in as he can play Centre and back up Noah. I wouldn't give up an untried Ross.
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    Not sure if Denver would really trade Faried for Bargs. Isn't Denver really high on Faried as their future PF? I'm not apposed to the trade, but I think Denver needs more motivation to trade Faried...

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    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    Not sure if Denver would really trade Faried for Bargs. Isn't Denver really high on Faried as their future PF? I'm not apposed to the trade, but I think Denver needs more motivation to trade Faried...
    Bargnani is an enigma.. can never figure out what his worth is in the league. Denver is high on Faried, but they are playoff contenders.. would they want to ride their chances on such a young player, or would they want a more veteran guy that has a tonne of offensive skill?

    To sweeten the pot, I'd consider doing a trade like this instead:
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8jh7a8g

    Same idea as before except:

    Toronto: Deng, Faried, $10M TPE (Denver)
    Chicago: Calderon, DeRozan, Koufos
    Denver: Bargnani, Davis, $3M TPE (Chicago), 2nd rounder from Toronto.

    Denver would get more depth at PF this way and an extra pick. Chicago would gain depth at PG, SG and Center with that trade, and save a lot of cash next season.

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    Let me get this straight, you would trade Bargnani, Calderon, DeRozan, Davis and a second round pick for Deng and Faried? Are you sure you don't want to throw in Valanciunas and Lowry? I for one am glad you are not the Raptors GM.

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    Quote OnTheRightTrack wrote: View Post
    Let me get this straight, you would trade Bargnani, Calderon, DeRozan, Davis and a second round pick for Deng and Faried? Are you sure you don't want to throw in Valanciunas and Lowry? I for one am glad you are not the Raptors GM.
    He's absolutely sure he doesn't want to throw in Vals and Lowry. I've always had difficulty understanding people not looking at Raps players as players of value.

    Among the players mentioned above, Deng and Bargnani can be considered above average and Jose, Demar, Davis and Faried useful average players in varying age groups.

    Actually, I think Toronto is giving up too much for those players.
    Last edited by Eric Akshinthala; Sun Oct 14th, 2012 at 02:50 PM.
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    Quote OnTheRightTrack wrote: View Post
    Let me get this straight, you would trade Bargnani, Calderon, DeRozan, Davis and a second round pick for Deng and Faried? Are you sure you don't want to throw in Valanciunas and Lowry? I for one am glad you are not the Raptors GM.
    Sorry I think I misunderstood your post. If you meant that Toronto was giving up too much, please ignore my previous reply. I thought you meant the opposite. Sorry again.
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Bargnani is an enigma.. can never figure out what his worth is in the league. Denver is high on Faried, but they are playoff contenders.. would they want to ride their chances on such a young player, or would they want a more veteran guy that has a tonne of offensive skill?

    To sweeten the pot, I'd consider doing a trade like this instead:
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8jh7a8g

    Same idea as before except:

    Toronto: Deng, Faried, $10M TPE (Denver)
    Chicago: Calderon, DeRozan, Koufos
    Denver: Bargnani, Davis, $3M TPE (Chicago), 2nd rounder from Toronto.

    Denver would get more depth at PF this way and an extra pick. Chicago would gain depth at PG, SG and Center with that trade, and save a lot of cash next season.
    That's pushing it a bit. I would only do this trade if Ross turns out better than expected and starts taking major minutes from Demar before the trade deadline....

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    Quote OnTheRightTrack wrote: View Post
    Let me get this straight, you would trade Bargnani, Calderon, DeRozan, Davis and a second round pick for Deng and Faried? Are you sure you don't want to throw in Valanciunas and Lowry? I for one am glad you are not the Raptors GM.
    Yes that's a lot of players leaving Toronto, but in order to get a star player like Deng you have to give up assets. Toronto doesn't really have a first round pick (due to the Lowry trade) so that's basically off the table. That leaves us with only players to offer.

    - Jose has an expiring contract, and has been in trade rumours for awhile now.
    - Casey wants a 4 big rotation. With Bargnani, Amir, JV, Gray, and even Acy that's not a lot of room for Ed to get minutes. He still needs a lot of developing time. Toronto can afford to lose one big, and I'd prefer to keep Amir over Ed personally. In my last trade proposal I'd be sending Davis to Denver since Denver has PF depth issues.. in exchange Denver would send one of their centers (Koufos in my proposal) back to Chicago.
    - Deng is a top 10 SF in the league (I'd rank him 7th behind Lebron, Durant, Carmelo, Pierce, Gay, and Iggy), and so to get a talent like him you would have to give up a top pick or a good player. That's where DeMar comes in. I'm not sold on DeMar. He can't pass, can't rebound, can't defend, his handles are weak, and doesn't have much range. Hopefully he turns it around, but I'd be willing to risk his potential to get a sure thing like Deng. If we had a first round pick I'd offer that instead, but we don't.

    As for Bargnani vs Faried.. I personally think Faried is a much better player plus is younger and has a better contract. I have no idea what Bargnani is worth to other teams, hence my proposal to give Denver Bargnani and a 2nd rounder as well.

    Bargnani can score, but by getting Deng we can afford to lose Bargnani's offense and instead get a traditional PF that can grab boards, defend, and is tenacious - all the things I love in a PF.

    So yes - we are giving up 4 players.. many that we would consider part of our 'core'.. however I thought our core last year sucked.. I'd rather have a core of Lowry/JV/Deng/Faried then Lowry/DeMar/Bargnani with Calderon/Davis on the bench. Our biggest issue is that we need to upgrade our starting line up, and I think this trade can do that.

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    love the trade for toronto, hate it for denver.
    @jerboat

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    lowry/ross/deng/faried/jv would be ridiculous defensively
    @jerboat

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Bargnani is an enigma.. can never figure out what his worth is in the league. Denver is high on Faried, but they are playoff contenders.. would they want to ride their chances on such a young player, or would they want a more veteran guy that has a tonne of offensive skill?

    To sweeten the pot, I'd consider doing a trade like this instead:
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8jh7a8g

    Same idea as before except:

    Toronto: Deng, Faried, $10M TPE (Denver)
    Chicago: Calderon, DeRozan, Koufos
    Denver: Bargnani, Davis, $3M TPE (Chicago), 2nd rounder from Toronto.

    Denver would get more depth at PF this way and an extra pick. Chicago would gain depth at PG, SG and Center with that trade, and save a lot of cash next season.
    -2 Minor problems: Bargnani, DD, Jose & Ed were roughly 50 PPG last year. You would replace this with Deng & Faried (20-22 PPG). Yes I understand other players (Lowry, Val...) would pick up some of the slack but that would not be enough on a already offensively challenged team.
    -IMO way too much to give up for a borderline all star (Deng) & non lottery pick with a lot of potential (Faried).
    -Can somebody explain to me: Why are we so desperate to get a rid of Bargnani (and take 20 cents on a dollar) -who is:
    *Top 10 scorer (& very difficult to guard due to his size & range)
    *Solid (not great) 1 on 1 deffender;
    *Poor help defender (with Lowry & Fields not needing as nearly as much help D -Not as much of an issue any more). I would at least be "curious" as to what coach Casey could do with full camp.
    *All of the above for $10-11 mil per (Vs Lopez, Nene, Tyrus Thomas....)?
    *Does Jose have that little value (we would essentially be getting TPE -which has been kind of useless to us)?

    I agree he is somewhat of a disappointment for a No 1 pick (It could be worse -See Oden, Oloquandi, K Brown...).
    Lets face 2006 was not a great year to have a No 1 pick.
    Out of all teams Denver showed last year that you could have a solid season without a star player. Why not follow that?

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    Quote Mapko wrote: View Post
    -2 Minor problems: Bargnani, DD, Jose & Ed were roughly 50 PPG last year. You would replace this with Deng & Faried (20-22 PPG). Yes I understand other players (Lowry, Val...) would pick up some of the slack but that would not be enough on a already offensively challenged team.
    -IMO way too much to give up for a borderline all star (Deng) & non lottery pick with a lot of potential (Faried).
    -Can somebody explain to me: Why are we so desperate to get a rid of Bargnani (and take 20 cents on a dollar) -who is:
    *Top 10 scorer (& very difficult to guard due to his size & range)
    *Solid (not great) 1 on 1 deffender;
    *Poor help defender (with Lowry & Fields not needing as nearly as much help D -Not as much of an issue any more). I would at least be "curious" as to what coach Casey could do with full camp.
    *All of the above for $10-11 mil per (Vs Lopez, Nene, Tyrus Thomas....)?
    *Does Jose have that little value (we would essentially be getting TPE -which has been kind of useless to us)?

    I agree he is somewhat of a disappointment for a No 1 pick (It could be worse -See Oden, Oloquandi, K Brown...).
    Lets face 2006 was not a great year to have a No 1 pick.
    Out of all teams Denver showed last year that you could have a solid season without a star player. Why not follow that?
    The realist in me knows that Bargnani will not be traded. But to say that he's getting 20 cents on the dollar is a bit much with my proposal. Who cares where he was drafted? Drafting is not a science... some people gel others don't. I'd take Rondo any day over Bargnani, and Rondo was selected 21st in the '06 draft. Faried was a 2nd rounder, but so was Ginobili. Faried in my opinion was the 2nd best pick out of the 2011 draft (next to Irving). JV hopefully pushes him to 3rd though.

    Bargnani is a good 1:1 defender and is skilled offensively.. however he's still soft, doesn't like to get dirty, sets weak picks, doesn't pass very well, can't rebound, and is highly inconsistent for my liking. The fact that he is rusty due to lack of conditioning is a big reason why I want him gone now.. yes only two preseason games, but the team needs him committed.. and if the 'best' veteran on the team has commitment issues it spells trouble for the team especially when I have seen him play for six years and consistency/commitment have always been issues with him. I'm also not convinced that we'll get the best out of Bargnani this season.. last year he gave us probably 20 games where he played really well.. however he also played in 11 where he was less than mediocre. If the first two preseason games show us more of those 11 games then the first 20, it keeps me disbelieving.

    As for the overall scoring.. Deng/Faried could give you about 28-30ppg. Deng would probably raise his scoring average to about 18ppg (as that his what he was doing with Rose out), and Faried could get you 9-10ppg. But the team would be highly athletic, quick and shouldn't have problems scoring (especially in the clutch with Lowry/Deng).. the $10M TPE would probably not be used, but its flexibility to get a SG in case Ross doesn't pan out, or used as cap space for a lop sided trade, or to make a max offer if we needed to (to say Josh Smith or James Harden, both of which can score).

    It's hard to convince a Bargnani fan why we should trade him, as it is hard to convince a Bargnani disbeliever why they should keep him.. But if Bargnani was traded, I would want a young player with upside that could conceivably become an all-star one year. Hence the reason why I chose Faried in this trade proposal. I would also take a lottery pick, similar to the trade we pulled off for Lowry but in reverse. I just don't see too many teams having the cap space to take Andrea without giving us much salary back and a pick that would possibly land in the lottery.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie madeupid25's Avatar
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    How about something like this.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8cemt2u

    I would like to get a 1st round pick coming back our way as well.

    My rational is that if we are trading Calderon, Bargnani, and Kleiza, hopefully that means Colangelo has been fired and someone else is running this team.

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    Quote madeupid25 wrote: View Post
    How about something like this.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8cemt2u

    I would like to get a 1st round pick coming back our way as well.

    My rational is that if we are trading Calderon, Bargnani, and Kleiza, hopefully that means Colangelo has been fired and someone else is running this team.
    I notice the word "hopefully" in your last sentence. Obviously you're not a BC fan.

    Regarding your trade, it's a good trade but where I differ is with the 1 st round pick. I think a 1 st rounder should go from Toronto to Utah. Talent wise Toronto is already getting more than they deserve. Yes they trade Calderon which allows flexibility but he(Jose) goes to Utah who would have had it(flexibilty) anyway(Jefferson). So IMO Utah is the team that deserves the pick.

    Overall though, very good Trade.
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    Quote madeupid25 wrote: View Post
    How about something like this.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8cemt2u

    I would like to get a 1st round pick coming back our way as well.

    My rational is that if we are trading Calderon, Bargnani, and Kleiza, hopefully that means Colangelo has been fired and someone else is running this team.
    Wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    We traded under-performing Bargnani, lousy, old Jose & no handles/he drives me crazy Kleiza for reliable Boozer....This "brilliant trade" reduced our win total by 8 games while increasing Jazz by 6.
    Is it safe to assume that we are tryng to improve the team????????????????????????????????????
    Why would you trade Bargnani at $10 mil who is (.....................fill in the blank), but gives you 20+ PPG & 6 RPG for Boozer at $15+ Mill and 15 PPG & 7RPG??
    I don't mind trading anyone on this team IFF it has a potential to improve us, but a trade for the heck of it???????

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    Quote madeupid25 wrote: View Post
    How about something like this.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8cemt2u

    I would like to get a 1st round pick coming back our way as well.

    My rational is that if we are trading Calderon, Bargnani, and Kleiza, hopefully that means Colangelo has been fired and someone else is running this team.
    I don't like Boozer's contract at all, plus he's already 30 years old, and isn't getting younger. The fact that Gibson may start instead of Boozer in Chicago throws a red flag. Marvin Williams seems to just be an average player in the league as well.. Utah would also be exchanging one big (AJ) for another (Bargnani).. they have too many bigs now, so I can't see them doing that.

    Nice idea, but I'd say nay.

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