aren't we stuck in mediocrity?

[akashsingh]

sure it's all fun now to see derozan's improved athleticism/agressiveness from last year, and the rookie (val), and lowry
that novelty will soon wear thin.

but aren't we stuck in mediocrity?

a lot of people have us as the 8th seed if we're lucky (including most on this board), derozan and bargnani both don't play any defense, I don't think it is likely for us to get very good value for the players we want to get rid of (kleiza,calderon,bargnani,derozan,etc.) outside of valanciunas turning into a superstar exactly how are we supposed to get to the next level?


I dunno, maybe I think about it too much, and should get another hobby? what do you guys think.

I know b.c. is great at making something out of nothing but I don't think he has much to work with here to get us an elite player (all his own fault of course)

[JoePanini]

Very few teams reach that "next level", and if they do it takes many many years. I think that even being stuck in mediocrity for a few years, making 8th, 7th or even 6th seed would be great for the franchise. Bringing in consistent playoff games for the players is great, it also allows the organization to have the opportunity to invest more into the Raptors considering the extra money you'd get from reaching the playoffs.

Also constantly maintaining this "mediocrity" will push the Raptors away from being "losers". So Toronto would become a more attractive location. For example a team like the Bulls, Pacers, Trailblazers etc.. are considered teams which can win, and having that label alone is great for a franchise.

The Raptors aren't even a 20 year old franchise, any sort of improvement will be great for the future. If you're expecting a championship within this generation of players then you're going to have a tough time supporting this team!

[akashsingh]

Very few teams reach that "next level", and if they do it takes many many years. I think that even being stuck in mediocrity for a few years, making 8th, 7th or even 6th seed would be great for the franchise. Bringing in consistent playoff games for the players is great, it also allows the organization to have the opportunity to invest more into the Raptors considering the extra money you'd get from reaching the playoffs.

Also constantly maintaining this "mediocrity" will push the Raptors away from being "losers". So Toronto would become a more attractive location. For example a team like the Bulls, Pacers, Trailblazers etc.. are considered teams which can win, and having that label alone is great for a franchise.

The Raptors aren't even a 20 year old franchise, any sort of improvement will be great for the future. If you're expecting a championship within this generation of players then you're going to have a tough time supporting this team!

I don't like your sentiments here because it's not even true. I know these teams are rare, but goddammit why can't we be one of those teams that catch fire in a bottle.

OKC - drafted durant, westbrook
BOS - Big 3 came together, before that they were a lottery team
LAK - They retool and take big risks every couple of years

Doesn't it feel like a rip-off to follow a franchise that won't take risks to obtain a higher level of talent. Im a go big or go home kind of guy.......

[Miekenstien]

I don't like your sentiments here because it's not even true. I know these teams are rare, but goddammit why can't we be one of those teams that catch fire in a bottle.

OKC - drafted durant, westbrook
BOS - Big 3 came together, before that they were a lottery team
LAK - They retool and take big risks every couple of years

Doesn't it feel like a rip-off to follow a franchise that won't take risks to obtain a higher level of talent. Im a go big or go home kind of guy.......

Olajuwon, failed twin towers, hedo were all swing for the fences that failed. we've swung, just keep striking out so for once they are building from the ground up.

damned if they do i guess

[akashsingh]

Olajuwon, failed twin towers, hedo were all swing for the fences that failed. we've swung, just keep striking out so for once they are building from the ground up.

damned if they do i guess

well imo we should keep swinging. Except be smarter about it. I actually loathe teams that are average and stay that way every year. (bucks etc..)

[Puffer]

well imo we should keep swinging. Except be smarter about it. I actually loathe teams that are average and stay that way every year. (bucks etc..)

"...keep swinging. Except be smarter about it." LMAO

In essence your strategy is "Raps should succeed."

I will loathe the Raps for being average and staying there when it has happened for four seasons in a row (which would mean play-offs four seasons in a row). That would be a franchise record.

Oh, and not to exclude other areas of concern in the world, financial losers should buy stocks when they are low, and only sell when they are high.

You're welcome.

[big boi]

Jermaine O'neil... I'll take this gradual build. Positive things happening in raptorland, young team, plenty of room to grow. I'll be very happy if we grab that 8th seed. Going in the right direction.

(meant as a reply to an earlier post re swinging for the fences and striking out)

[big boi]

I don't like your sentiments here because it's not even true. I know these teams are rare, but goddammit why can't we be one of those teams that catch fire in a bottle.

OKC - drafted durant, westbrook
BOS - Big 3 came together, before that they were a lottery team
LAK - They retool and take big risks every couple of years

Doesn't it feel like a rip-off to follow a franchise that won't take risks to obtain a higher level of talent. Im a go big or go home kind of guy.......

I'm glad you're not the GM. Of course fine to have an opinion, but swinging for the fences (go big) and striking out (go home) could be the death knell for this franchise. They need to prove they are a relevant team in this league, first and foremost.

[NoPropsneeded]

We will continue to gradually move up the standings as our young guys improve and then a bigtime FA will come along and go "Hey! the raptors are badass lemme join them and help them win a championship". Bang! there you go, i'm dead serious btw. It may sound silly but its how it will/should play out

[ceez]

What the heck is this thread?

[theycallmeZZ]

How can we be stuck in mediocrity when we haven't reached it yet

HOW ABOUT WE GET TO MIDSEASON BEFORE WE MAKE JUDGMENTS

[akashsingh]

How can we be stuck in mediocrity when we haven't reached it yet

HOW ABOUT WE GET TO MIDSEASON BEFORE WE MAKE JUDGMENTS

well everyone is guilty of this, just ask them who they think will be in the playoffs. there isn't anything wrong with speculating imo.

[theycallmeZZ]

well everyone is guilty of this, just ask them who they think will be in the playoffs. there isn't anything wrong with speculating imo.

Even if their predictions are true, doesn't mean we don't build from there and get to the playoffs the next year...

...thus not getting stuck in mediocrity.


Maybe after those analysts see us improving in the season (and other teams crashing down to Earth from lofty expectations) maybe they'll change their tune?

Nothing wrong with speculating, am I right?

[akashsingh]

Even if their predictions are true, doesn't mean we don't build from there and get to the playoffs the next year...

...thus not getting stuck in mediocrity.


Maybe after those analysts see us improving in the season (and other teams crashing down to Earth from lofty expectations) maybe they'll change their tune?

Nothing wrong with speculating, am I right?

well it also helps to be realistic when speculating. outside of the milwaukee bucks I can't name many teams with worse cores than us moving forward.

[Miekenstien]

well it also helps to be realistic when speculating. outside of the milwaukee bucks I can't name many teams with worse cores than us moving forward.

bucks, bobcats, wizards, arguabley warriors, pheonix, rockets, except for kyrie cavs, depending on drummond pistons, orlando, . all teams who i would say are worse off then us trying to get out of the bottom

[ReubenJRD]

well it also helps to be realistic when speculating. outside of the milwaukee bucks I can't name many teams with worse cores than us moving forward.

Atlanta. Outside of Smith, Horford, and Teague, there isn't much potential moving forward. Although, intriguing trio.

[ReubenJRD]

There's a difference with us compared to the actuality of treadmill teams. We have young players, that can only get better because they have great potential, not to mention they will be contributors or will be 'X' factors right out of the gate. Guys like Lowry, Derozan, Valanciunas, Ross, Fields, Davis. Our core is significantly young, and this team is seriously on the way up. Not to mention an identity already built from last season.

Although, I am huge on the go big, or go home philosophy.
Right now, if everything goes completely right, in 3-4 years, Valanciunas is an all-star big man, a top centre in the league, probably the franchise player down the road. Ross progresses to be a rare and very good two way contributor, Derozan an elite wing, Fields develops into the Battier comparison, Lowry breaks into the first-tier and an all-star guard, and Davis turns into a near 10-10 guy. Going as a whole house - if this team has everything going right - probably as high as a conference final. BUT, that's ONLY if there are no bumps along the road of any player or the team.

I think this team, going realistically, will be improving every year, IF guys continue to buy into the system. For the next 3-4 years, a playoff appearance is surely in sight, but not too much home-court advantage.

Than, winning overtime starts to attract players, media, and attention. That's when teams break out of mediocrity, by making the playoffs, and being a top 16 team. From there, every team is primed, and could have a chance at a championship. Unlikely for Toronto though.

[Matt52]

Raps are not a mediocre team. They still suck and are a lottery team. No games have been played that matter.

Now, hypothetically, they reach mediocrity, then no, they are not stuck. Raps still have possible cap space, tradable assets, and internal growth at their disposal.

Very very premature idea but one I don't agree with right now.

[Superchunk]

Right now it seems that the franchise is making an honest attempt at building a franchise culture. I suppose it all begins with Casey and allowing him real input. I think this is a worthwhile goal and what does seperate perennial lottery teams from perennial playoff teams. You need your franchise to be about more than then the individual stats and play of the players on the floor, it needs to be about a system and a mindset which you plug the best possible players into. That is how we will break out of the lottery and into the middle class. Once you are in the middle class you are a bit of luck, good scouting and internal development away from the top tier.

I don't look at our current roster and see top-tier in the making, but I do see a respectable team in the making. You gotta start somewhere.

[planetmars]

Every team should fear mediocrity, but a mediocre team in my opinion is a team that barely makes the playoffs every year, or just can't get in. So a team in the 12-17 range. These are the draft picks that typically are not good enough to help elevate the team into the next "tier".

However one common thread for most mediocre teams is a team with a bunch of slightly overpaid vets. If a team has a lot of youth, and flexibility to add assets (via lop sided trades, or free agency) then those teams can still become better even if they are in that dreaded 12-17 range.

I am very skeptical of BC, but he has a team of youth with flexibility. The core is gradually being built from the ground up (Casey/JV/Lowry make a nice start) and the core will be added to every year either organically (DeMar/Ross/Fields) or through future transactions. And one thing about BC is that he likes wheeling and dealing. I just regret that we couldn't move into the 1-7 range last year since those were potentially the best picks available, but c'est la vie.

Last year the team was in 8th (actually tied for 8th) worst, and the year before that 5th worst. That's a good spot to be in. If their goal is playoffs this year, then that's fine because I like part of that core. If they continue to just make the playoffs or end up 9th/10th/11th, then its something to worry about, but we have not even scratched the surface of mediocrity, so in my opinion it's too early to talk about it.