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Thread: aren't we stuck in mediocrity?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Every team should fear mediocrity, but a mediocre team in my opinion is a team that barely makes the playoffs every year, or just can't get in. So a team in the 12-17 range. These are the draft picks that typically are not good enough to help elevate the team into the next "tier".

    However one common thread for most mediocre teams is a team with a bunch of slightly overpaid vets. If a team has a lot of youth, and flexibility to add assets (via lop sided trades, or free agency) then those teams can still become better even if they are in that dreaded 12-17 range.

    I am very skeptical of BC, but he has a team of youth with flexibility. The core is gradually being built from the ground up (Casey/JV/Lowry make a nice start) and the core will be added to every year either organically (DeMar/Ross/Fields) or through future transactions. And one thing about BC is that he likes wheeling and dealing. I just regret that we couldn't move into the 1-7 range last year since those were potentially the best picks available, but c'est la vie.

    Last year the team was in 8th (actually tied for 8th) worst, and the year before that 5th worst. That's a good spot to be in. If their goal is playoffs this year, then that's fine because I like part of that core. If they continue to just make the playoffs or end up 9th/10th/11th, then its something to worry about, but we have not even scratched the surface of mediocrity, so in my opinion it's too early to talk about it.

  2. #22
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    Sigh.

    The op sentiment is classic premature negativity and imo ahead of it's time...more a 1/3 season reflection piece. And I dont believe most on the board are believing a playoff run this year....rather a "good if it happens wishful" sentiment. What I want is good improvement on defense from last year and let things fall into place. The offence will take care of itself.

    Right now I am feeling a good vibe and quite nervous about the start...the first 10 or so games with some tough teams will set the tone for the season/playoffs.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    sure it's all fun now to see derozan's improved athleticism/agressiveness from last year, and the rookie (val), and lowry
    that novelty will soon wear thin.

    but aren't we stuck in mediocrity?

    a lot of people have us as the 8th seed if we're lucky (including most on this board), derozan and bargnani both don't play any defense, I don't think it is likely for us to get very good value for the players we want to get rid of (kleiza,calderon,bargnani,derozan,etc.) outside of valanciunas turning into a superstar exactly how are we supposed to get to the next level?


    I dunno, maybe I think about it too much, and should get another hobby? what do you guys think.

    I know b.c. is great at making something out of nothing but I don't think he has much to work with here to get us an elite player (all his own fault of course)
    Whats with all these cry baby threads lately?

    Did we not pick up Kyle lowry this season who even the nba broadcasters are saying is the raptors new star player. but hey its not like we got a solid pg rotation going for us either. or a young center with tons of potentialwho could be a huge difference maker . or not like bargnani or derozan improved at all this year.oh wait, its not like any other team wont have an injury or bad games cause they are so much better then us that that bad stuff wont effect any team but ours.... pfft. enough of these loser, woah is me threads already.

    have some cheese with your wine singh.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    this thread is all about Singh reading and listening to american broadcasters. He believes everything he hears to be fact, as if there is no bias towards the raptors. watch the games, see the improvement, make your own choices about our team. If you cant see the improvement and growth from the raptors as a whole something is wrong with you.

    people are over hyping teams like brooklyn, atlanta, chicago and pacers
    I see this as the raps last year in the shadow. by next year i think people will finally wake up to and see we have a solid basketball team.
    Last edited by pesterm1; Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 04:24 PM.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Oh and one more thing.... its still preseason. how can you judge players defense after 4 preseason games ya shmuck.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Atlanta. Outside of Smith, Horford, and Teague, there isn't much potential moving forward. Although, intriguing trio.
    horford and smith are great , terague is pretty meh. lowry has a solid advantage over teague.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter Fuchan's Avatar
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    We have to reach meriocrity first to be stuck there.

    As long as the knicks implode this season, it will be a fun one to watch.

  8. #28
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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    Whats with all these cry baby threads lately?

    Did we not pick up Kyle lowry this season who even the nba broadcasters are saying is the raptors new star player. but hey its not like we got a solid pg rotation going for us either. or a young center with tons of potentialwho could be a huge difference maker . or not like bargnani or derozan improved at all this year.oh wait, its not like any other team wont have an injury or bad games cause they are so much better then us that that bad stuff wont effect any team but ours.... pfft. enough of these loser, woah is me threads already.

    have some cheese with your wine singh.
    im being realistic, if you don't like it fuck you. Im providing evidence, to back up my complaing not just whining incessantly about it. That's how we get a good discussion going.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    Whats with all these cry baby threads lately?

    Did we not pick up Kyle lowry this season who even the nba broadcasters are saying is the raptors new star player. but hey its not like we got a solid pg rotation going for us either. or a young center with tons of potentialwho could be a huge difference maker . or not like bargnani or derozan improved at all this year.oh wait, its not like any other team wont have an injury or bad games cause they are so much better then us that that bad stuff wont effect any team but ours.... pfft. enough of these loser, woah is me threads already.

    have some cheese with your wine singh.
    I hear ya. If anything the Raptors took a step in the RIGHT direction, and that's all that should matter

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Starter Fuchan's Avatar
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    I think we are all overlooking the big picture here... The knicks are going to suck and I will enjoy it

  11. #31
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    We're stuck just below mediocrity, yes. But that's not what worries me.

    It's that we (the management, the fans, & the franchise as a whole) aspire to it.

    "Lets make the playoffs" is the sad mantra of the Leafs fan.

    I don't want it for this team. I'd rather be 13-72 for five straight years and draft a Lebron, KD, Wade, Rose, etc, someone who we can build a team around and take a shot. Anything is better than polishing and glorifying the turds that we have.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote Copywryter wrote: View Post
    We're stuck just below mediocrity, yes. But that's not what worries me.

    It's that we (the management, the fans, & the franchise as a whole) aspire to it.

    "Lets make the playoffs" is the sad mantra of the Leafs fan.

    I don't want it for this team. I'd rather be 13-72 for five straight years and draft a Lebron, KD, Wade, Rose, etc, someone who we can build a team around and take a shot. Anything is better than polishing and glorifying the turds that we have.
    Nobody wants to play for a losing team, and GM's dont have the luxury of tanking for five straight years.. and even if they did, there's no guarantee of a top 3 pick especially with a good coach and bad lottery luck. Making the playoffs or at least coming close will make the Raptors an OK team, which is the main thing that will attract free agents

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Starter Fuchan's Avatar
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    I'd hardly call our core turds, but I see what you are saying. Even if we do get a superstar, and still have a losing culture, he will leave once his rookie contract is up

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Starter OzRapFan's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    sure it's all fun now to see derozan's improved athleticism/agressiveness from last year, and the rookie (val), and lowry
    that novelty will soon wear thin.

    but aren't we stuck in mediocrity?

    a lot of people have us as the 8th seed if we're lucky (including most on this board), derozan and bargnani both don't play any defense, I don't think it is likely for us to get very good value for the players we want to get rid of (kleiza,calderon,bargnani,derozan,etc.) outside of valanciunas turning into a superstar exactly how are we supposed to get to the next level?


    I dunno, maybe I think about it too much, and should get another hobby? what do you guys think.

    I know b.c. is great at making something out of nothing but I don't think he has much to work with here to get us an elite player (all his own fault of course)
    Someone please give Debbie Downer here a half a glass of milk so they can call it half empty.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Rookie Ion66's Avatar
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    Can a small market team ever land or have a superstar player, and actually afford to surround them (once they've matured and established themselves) with enough truly quality talent? Do you not often end up with a huge contract, and not enough money to have anything but a one dimensional team that tanks if your star player, or one of the few big talents gets injured? Am I crazy to actually like the idea of a team that doesnt write off a season if its star player goes down with a 2 month injury? I love reading all the "we suck and are nothing but a lottery ball team who will win 10 games or less." type of comments. I loved them last year, when people here and in the media picked the Raps to finish dead last in the NBA and struggle to double digit wins in the short season. This is like some crazy sport where people love the off season more than the actual games. Where we write off a team because it didnt land the next superstar and cant wait till the season is over to see if THAT off season will be the one where we get the big shiny star we can all worship. I'll be proud of my team if they make the playoffs, because I think we have some good to very good players who are fun to watch and work hard. If they do that, I will be glued to my TV for as long as they hang on, and I will hope that we build on that, and not consider that accomplishment sufficient. I want to be proud of my team for what it does on the court, not to sit here and pray we suck till Summer, so we can win the lottery and leapfrog our way to glory in one lucky move. We're not Miami, or New York, or LA market. A mediocre team is by definition, one that is consistently sub .500 and has no outstanding talents to build on. That's mediocre. I just want a well coached, respectable team that plays hard, has depth and some good talent all round. A team that can move up on a few teams with less depth or chemistry and be among the top small market teams and get some respect in the league. I want a team that thinks that being a few games over .500 still sucks. I want a team that is respected and good enough, that I dont have to watch LeBron sit on the bench for the 4th quarter because they dont need him on the floor to beat us. That's what I want. For now anyhow.
    Last edited by Ion66; Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 02:06 AM. Reason: correction and addition

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Starter theycallmeZZ's Avatar
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    You wanna tank? Fine.

    You know what happens when a team consistently loses? Players lose morale, fans lose support, teams get moved, and a coach like Casey who is trying his hardest to change the culture and is doing a damn good job of it gets fired.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Copywryter wrote: View Post
    We're stuck just below mediocrity, yes. But that's not what worries me.

    It's that we (the management, the fans, & the franchise as a whole) aspire to it.

    "Lets make the playoffs" is the sad mantra of the Leafs fan.

    I don't want it for this team. I'd rather be 13-72 for five straight years and draft a Lebron, KD, Wade, Rose, etc, someone who we can build a team around and take a shot. Anything is better than polishing and glorifying the turds that we have.
    charlotte got the first pick right?

    so year one we get lebron and the next 3 years because we have gutted our team, he plays for a losing team. he then signs the minimum length deal he can and gives us 4 years of exciting basketball. then leaves for nothing.

    i am a sens fan. building the way we are is the best way. do your best every year and slowly turn this thing around. hopefully we can become a team that competes perennially. this is the nba, the raps aren't the leafs, no one wants to play here. when we sign players they don't talk about the history of the franchise. our franchise history is people leave us and we hate them for it.

    a lot of people here talk about not being able to build around demar and or andrea and they are right. that doesn't mean they aren't part of the foundation. teams without kd/lebron have to be built another way. not around sub star level players like we have but with them included in the planning.

    look at our team we tried to build everything for vince or everything for bosh to give those 2 players the best chance to take our team somewhere and we got shat on. now we are building a team to fit players into and it is working. our team has shown a lot of growth from the beginning of last year up until now and by all things i have seen so far it has paid off and will continue.

    eventually we should be able to reach a point where when a player leaves the next best in line wont be a drop off and our team keeps chugging along and during this time who knows when a real franchise player is found later in the draft or we make the move to aquire one who fits our team already.
    Last edited by Miekenstien; Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 02:13 AM.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Ion66 wrote: View Post
    ...I just want a well coached, respectable team that plays hard, has depth and some good talent all round. A team that can move up on a few teams with less depth or chemistry and be among the top small market teams and get some respect in the league. I want a team that thinks that being a few games over .500 still sucks. I want a team that is respected and good enough, that I dont have to watch LeBron sit on the bench for the 4th quarter because they dont need him on the floor to beat us. That's what I want. For now anyhow.
    This


    And This.
    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    ...eventually we should be able to reach a point where when a player leaves the next best in line wont be a drop off and our team keeps chugging along and during this time who knows when a real franchise player is found later in the draft or we make the move to aquire one who fits our team already.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    im being realistic, if you don't like it fuck you. Im providing evidence, to back up my complaing not just whining incessantly about it. That's how we get a good discussion going.
    You have shown your intelligence level by saying " f*ck you" to me, you neanderthal.

    My point is ... how many "woah is me" threads do we need? You felt like your negative opinion somehow was different than others and it needed its own thread? Furthermore, the season hasn't started yet how can you even create an opinion for our entire season based on a few preseason games? But hey "F*ck me right?".
    Last edited by pesterm1; Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 04:21 PM.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    I dunno, maybe I think about it too much, and should get another hobby? what do you guys think.
    Yes.

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