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Thread: Raps' pick from the Lowry trade, plus two rooks Raps fans loved are now with OKC

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    Default Raps' pick from the Lowry trade, plus two rooks Raps fans loved are now with OKC

    So, how 'bout that Harden trade, eh?

    I was just thinking, now OKC's got Lamb, PJ3, and the draft pick we sent to Houston. If those guys/whoever the pick turns into end up being key pieces for a championship Thunder team...

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    means okc really needs a back up pg. jose to okc for our pick back. harden was their bench distributor

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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    means okc really needs a back up pg. jose to okc for our pick back. harden was their bench distributor
    No they don't, they have Eric Maynor who they are really high on.
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star KHD's Avatar
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    I find it funny that every news source / user comment about the trade says that the Toronto pick is guaranteed to be high lottery. Should be some more motivation for the Raptors.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Presti is incredible.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Presti is incredible.
    And Morey further cements himself as an overrated hack. How funny will it be when/if Harden refuses to sign an extension.?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    I think the extension is a foregone conclusion. There are more roster moves to come as the Rockets have 20 players under contract.
    Last edited by stretch; Sun Oct 28th, 2012 at 08:51 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Ive gotta agree - good on Presti for this one. Think about it from the Raps perspective. Would you rather have James Harden (overpaid at the max) or Jose, DD (sort of equivilent to Martin put together), Ross (Lamb), our first round pick next year (ie Lowry now), and another two 2nd rounders picks (the other first rounder was a top 20 protected Mavs pick.. so almost like a 2nd rounder). This is the closest that I can approximate from the Raps.

    Seems like a hell of a steep price to pay for Harden. For Westbrook? Id do that in a split second. But, to me, if Harden is your best player .. you are in BIG trouble.

    You sometimes gotta have assets to get assets .. but I gotta say, good on Presti for this one (especially since its going be unpopular and took some real balls .. )
    Last edited by mountio; Sun Oct 28th, 2012 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Note - had the 2nd first rounder wrong .. read it was the lakers .. its actually the mavs

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    The Thunder, it was said during the talks, cannot afford to let players get to free agency, with the additional cost and risk involved. From the player's perspective, this is rigid. From Presti's perspective, it was the way to do business in a franchise with more limited resources than rivals and in a market where free agents are often overpaid.

    Presti was attempting to force through a contract that would help soften the blow of the increased luxury tax that starts in the 2013-14 season, when Harden's new deal would've kicked in.

    Over the past several years Ibaka, Russell Westbrook, and Nick Collison have structured new contracts in ways that would ease the Thunder's coming tax burden. In each case, the player accepted a deal for less than his estimated market value had he waited for free agency. Collectively these moves are saving the Thunder millions in salary and potentially tens of millions when accounting for future tax payments. That money, in theory, is used to sign their talented teammates.

    In addition Kevin Durant and Kendrick Perkins signed extensions without the "opt-out" clauses seen in many contracts.

    All five players bypassed free agency. This, Presti apparently sold to the players, would help the Thunder remain to remain contenders for the foreseeable future.

    The Thunder hoped, and obviously expected, that Harden would follow suit. On the court, he had been willing to accept a sixth-man role for the good of the team, and both parties benefited. Harden was named Sixth Man of the Year and the Thunder reached the NBA Finals last season.

    In the end, sources said, the Thunder had to make a decision based on risk: not just the financial and basketball risk that came with allowing Harden to become a free agent, but also the risk of deviating from their philosophy, and what that would mean for the players who had been willing to follow it in the past.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/85...g-james-harden
    I've always respected Presti and thought he was incredible. I now also believe he has the ability to walk on water. I really admire anyone who makes the unpopular decision in an effort to stick with their principles.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sun Oct 28th, 2012 at 09:36 AM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    ...

    Seems like a hell of a steep price to pay for Harden. For Westbrook? Id do that in a split second. But, to me, if Harden is your best player .. you are in BIG trouble.

    ...
    The Rockets are now in trouble? Before the trade Lin was their best player. Harden is better than anyone on our roster. And the Rockets still have a bunch of young players with upside.

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    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    The Rockets are now in trouble? Before the trade Lin was their best player. Harden is better than anyone on our roster. And the Rockets still have a bunch of young players with upside.
    Im not doubting that their team is better now than they were before the trade. My point is that a team where Harden is your best player (hes a third banana .. MAYBE will grow into a 2nd banana at best) is not going to be a successful team. Yes, Houston still has some assets - but has traded quite a bit away in order to get Harden (effectively 3 first rounders with Lamb included). I wouldnt have made that deal for Harden. As I said .. for Westbrook? All day every day. But Harden is a top 30 player at best (NBARank has him at #58!). Too steep a price

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    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I've always respected Presti and thought he was incredible. I now also believe he has the ability to walk on water. I really admire anyone who makes the unpopular decision in an effort to stick with their principles.
    Couldnt agree more. Great trade

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Im not doubting that their team is better now than they were before the trade. My point is that a team where Harden is your best player (hes a third banana .. MAYBE will grow into a 2nd banana at best) is not going to be a successful team. Yes, Houston still has some assets - but has traded quite a bit away in order to get Harden (effectively 3 first rounders with Lamb included). I wouldnt have made that deal for Harden. As I said .. for Westbrook? All day every day. But Harden is a top 30 player at best (NBARank has him at #58!). Too steep a price
    I agree with this in part. The one thing I will say is if there is any 2nd (or 3rd) banana in the league that has the opportunity to become a superstar its Harden. That said I don't think its gonna happen (although still a very good player)

    One advantage Houston has however is they will have the ability to attract FAs (state taxes, weather, 4th biggest city and metro area in America), and the money (thanks to Morley's well placed love affair with tapping into the asian market) to do it.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Im not doubting that their team is better now than they were before the trade. My point is that a team where Harden is your best player (hes a third banana .. MAYBE will grow into a 2nd banana at best) is not going to be a successful team. Yes, Houston still has some assets - but has traded quite a bit away in order to get Harden (effectively 3 first rounders with Lamb included). I wouldnt have made that deal for Harden. As I said .. for Westbrook? All day every day. But Harden is a top 30 player at best (NBARank has him at #58!). Too steep a price
    It will be interesting to see how he handles his new role in Houston.

    The reason he was 3rd banana after all was because he was the third top 4 draft pick to arrive in 3 years.

    While the argument can be made he benefited from the presence of KD and RW, one could make the argument he was limited by their presence as well. Which argument is right is going to be found out very soon.

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    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I agree with this in part. The one thing I will say is if there is any 2nd (or 3rd) banana in the league that has the opportunity to become a superstar its Harden. That said I don't think its gonna happen (although still a very good player)

    One advantage Houston has however is they will have the ability to attract FAs (state taxes, weather, 4th biggest city and metro area in America), and the money (thanks to Morley's well placed love affair with tapping into the asian market) to do it.
    All fair points. We will see how successful they are / their ability to attract FAs with Lin overpaid and Harden at the max. I agree on the taxes, city etc that its a top 10 NBA destination (not top 5, but top 10). If Im a borderline max guy .. Im just not sure I choose to play beside Harden if I have a choice of Griffen, Love, even Bynum and Gordon (or other similar young max type guys).

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I agree with this in part. The one thing I will say is if there is any 2nd (or 3rd) banana in the league that has the opportunity to become a superstar its Harden. That said I don't think its gonna happen (although still a very good player)

    One advantage Houston has however is they will have the ability to attract FAs (state taxes, weather, 4th biggest city and metro area in America), and the money (thanks to Morley's well placed love affair with tapping into the asian market) to do it.
    Houston has not done well in recent years in attracting free agents despite the positives you have laid out. Howard did not want to go. Nene said no. Gasol did not want to go.

    Morey also has a bad rep among agents. Very difficult to negotiate with has been reported.

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    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It will be interesting to see how he handles his new role in Houston.

    The reason he was 3rd banana after all was because he was the third top 4 draft pick to arrive in 3 years.

    While the argument can be made he benefited from the presence of KD and RW, one could make the argument he was limited by their presence as well. Which argument is right is going to be found out very soon.
    That was part of the reason .. but lets be clear .. hes not nearly as good as Durant and Westbrook .. and even if those guys would have been drafted in a different order, the pecking order would still be Durant, Westbrook, then Harden. Ill buy that Westbrook (who can clearly be a #1 guy) might look like a #2 option on his team, but is really a #1 guy. But Harden?

    I just dont see him being a lead option. Even on the Raps .. if we got him, I think the offense would still go through Lowry and AB before him (assuming we still had those two guys). Thats not to say those guys are better all around players than Harden (Lowry might be) - just better offensive options.
    Last edited by mountio; Sun Oct 28th, 2012 at 11:56 AM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Presti is incredible.
    Do you feel they are a better team with K-Mart than Harden though? To me Harden was the hands down best player involved in the trade, and while they have lessened their luxury tax burden they may have just handed the Western Conference crown to the Lakers. Presti may have made a good decision in the sense that OKC will still be an excellent team, but when you reach the NBA finals one year and then down grade the team the next year what does it say for their chances to make it to the finals again much less challenge the Heat should they match up again?

    Just playing devils advocate here, but also interested if anyone else see's a downside for OKC in this trade.

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    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Do you feel they are a better team with K-Mart than Harden though? To me Harden was the hands down best player involved in the trade, and while they have lessened their luxury tax burden they may have just handed the Western Conference crown to the Lakers. Presti may have made a good decision in the sense that OKC will still be an excellent team, but when you reach the NBA finals one year and then down grade the team the next year what does it say for their chances to make it to the finals again much less challenge the Heat should they match up again?

    Just playing devils advocate here, but also interested if anyone else see's a downside for OKC in this trade.
    Of course there is downside. OKC is almost for sure worse this year because of the deal. Harden - while not a max player in my mind (and certainly not a #1 option), fits in great with that team and is an excellent glue guy. He for sure has more value in that setting than he does trying to lead his own team. But, when you consider that someone was going to max him out this year (whether hes worth it or not) - and thus OKC had to either match it (and see their flexibility hampered not to mention their tax position) or let him go .. then all things considered, this is a very good deal. As it likely makes them better every year except this year .. and considering how young Westbrook/ Durant are and how old the Lakers (and even the Heat a little bit) are - maybe they are better to play for a dynasty starting 2-3 years from now??
    Last edited by mountio; Sun Oct 28th, 2012 at 12:43 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    This move was for the future. They take one step back this year, but it allows them to take several steps forward over the next few years. But don't get me wrong, they are still contenders IMO

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