Page 11 of 14 FirstFirst ... 9 10 11 12 13 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 220 of 268

Thread: Is Derozan contract that bad?

  1. #201
    Raptors Republic All-Star KHD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,041
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    There isn't a shortage of 2-guards; there is only a shortage of good 2-guards. Right now, DeRozan isn't one of them.
    Fair point. And no, he's not currently one of them, but he's probably got the potential to be one of them, so I think my point still stands.

    As I said, I agree that its too much, but that's happened so many times with Toronto that it doesn't surprise me.

  2. #202
    Raptors Republic All-Star Sig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,109
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    Key number is fg%. I'd be ok with 15 ppg if he can shoot nearly 50%
    And with the additions of Lowry and Valanciunas, his scoring is most certainly going to decrease

  3. #203
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Brunswick
    Posts
    2,244
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Tesla wrote: View Post
    And with the additions of Lowry and Valanciunas, his scoring is most certainly going to decrease


    And Duane Casey keeps emphasizing how Demar needs to/will become an efficient player. I hope he's right

  4. #204
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote IROR wrote: View Post
    I really can't sympathize with all the BC haters.
    Demar is still VERY young. This player is still 3 years from reaching a point where he expected to be in his "prime," like Bargnani is now. Maybe he is not worth 10 M RIGHT NOW, but in 2 or 3 years odds are good that he becomes a 10 Mil guy or better.
    So all the haters of this deal should realize a few things:
    A) It's better to keep a player like Demar because he undoubtedly will improve and increase in value (Like what Ujiri in Denver has done with his extensions.)
    B) This would have been a STUPID distraction from the team in such an important season (this alone makes this deal easy for me to take)
    C) If the Raps didn't offer it, some other team would have next summer in RFA because nearly all GMs pay the premium for potential, and gladly do so.

    All you gotta do is look at Harden's deal from HOU to see how these things work. Is Harden worth that? No, but he probably will be soon.
    Assuming he gets better in 2 or 3 years and not now makes this an even worse contract, that means we could've paid him less at the end of the year when he's a restricted free agent (pending a QO)

    A) He's been given all the freedom to get better. It was under Triano, but he was giving a ton of PT with little growth. If you're looking at the Nuggets, they've already traded Nene and Afflalo so I don't see where you're going with that.
    B) This is a moot point, unlike the Denver situation where George Karl was affirming that it was a distraction, both DD and Colangelo have said in print that the extension was something they'd figure out at the end of the year. Why the rush?
    C) This is conjecture, what team is in the market for a high-usage one-dimensional SG? There's no reason we can't offer him this same deal at the end of the year either.

    Paying for potential is great, but DD hasn't shown any significant signs of improvement. I really hope he does, but paying him now and hoping he turns into something special is a bad move, when we could've just waited till the end of the season to see how it turns out. I'd much rather pay more for a sure thing, than to gamble on the promise of potential that may or may not be there.

  5. #205
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    365
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Yahoo's Kelly Dwyer's take on the contract. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...4485--nba.html

  6. #206
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    365
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Is there any chance this makes it easier to trade Derozan?

  7. #207
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    20,330
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    So Matt.. which volume of Game Of Thrones does this signing fall into?
    lol - I'm not sure. I'm still in shock.... in both GoT and DD.

  8. #208
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    2,101
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote koncept wrote: View Post
    Yahoo's Kelly Dwyer's take on the contract. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...4485--nba.html
    Great line from Dwyer:

    This is why we have lockouts. Teams bidding against absolutely nobody to pay a player what he isn't worth. DeRozan had no leverage here, and Toronto didn't seem to care. Keep these sorts of deals in mind the next time NBA owners kvetch about salary structures gone wrong.

  9. #209
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    20,330
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote koncept wrote: View Post
    Yahoo's Kelly Dwyer's take on the contract. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...4485--nba.html
    Nailed it.

  10. #210
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,803
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote koncept wrote: View Post
    Yahoo's Kelly Dwyer's take on the contract. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...4485--nba.html
    I agree with most of what he says but it sort of falls apart when he said it is the same bad idea as the Bargnani contract. That one seemed bad at first but now is quite palatable. I think a poll on this site would argue that but still tilt towards the positive side. Hopefully we will say the same about DeMar one day. Not many people seem to think we will

  11. #211
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Utrecht, The Netherlands (Yes, that's Europe!)
    Posts
    1,920
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote koncept wrote: View Post
    Yahoo's Kelly Dwyer's take on the contract. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...4485--nba.html
    The move is so laughable and distressing that you almost wonder if Colangelo is salting the sod for the next GM to take over.
    I would have been unhappy if we would have paid 7 mil a year. That would have really made me question Colangelo.

  12. #212
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    2,101
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote IROR wrote: View Post

    So all the haters of this deal should realize a few things:

    A) It's better to keep a player like Demar because he undoubtedly will improve and increase in value (Like what Ujiri in Denver has done with his extensions.)
    B) This would have been a STUPID distraction from the team in such an important season (this alone makes this deal easy for me to take)
    C) If the Raps didn't offer it, some other team would have next summer in RFA because nearly all GMs pay the premium for potential, and gladly do so.

    All you gotta do is look at Harden's deal from HOU to see how these things work. Is Harden worth that? No, but he probably will be soon.
    A) I'll take that bet. After 200+ games playing major minutes and being given a starring role, you pretty much know what you have. All you have to do is look at JV in his first game and Derozan in his 200th to know the story about talent.

    B) What? Guys play hard in contract years cause they want to get paid. Tonnes of guys play out deals for the sole purpose of upping their FA value. There's no distraction. This is nonsense.

    C) Who cares? Hanging on to Derozan is not critical to this team's development. He's a below average SG. If someone wants to pay him $10 million, good for them. The fact that a bunch of teams in the NBA sign terrible contracts doesn't mean Toronto has to do the same thing.

  13. #213
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Utrecht, The Netherlands (Yes, that's Europe!)
    Posts
    1,920
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    I agree with most of what he says but it sort of falls apart when he said it is the same bad idea as the Bargnani contract. That one seemed bad at first but now is quite palatable. I think a poll on this site would argue that but still tilt towards the positive side. Hopefully we will say the same about DeMar one day. Not many people seem to think we will
    I've never been a Bargnani basher, but he has never ever lived up to his paycheque untill a few games last year. So he's not been worth his contract so far. And worst of it all with the DeRozan signing is that DeRozan has even shown less than Bargnani did when he got his contract and DeRozan doesn't have any unique skills which make you dream of being an amazing mismatch on offense; DeRozan only comes with unique weaknesses.

  14. #214
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    8,472
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Some quotes from Bryan Colangelo:

    Quote BC wrote:
    He’s been developing and progressing to a level that we felt that he is an asset. We wanted to retain the asset. This is mostly about asset retention.
    Plain and simple.

    Quote BC wrote:
    As far as some of the talk or discussion that we’ve lost some of our flexibility: we really haven’t, in our opinion. This is somewhat of a cap-neutral deal because going forward, had we issued a qualifying offer or dealt with that next summer in terms of going into restricted free agency, you basically have a situation where there is a cap hold. The cap hold is a little bit higher than the actual qualifying offer. In effect, the cap hold was a number that was at or near the number we ultimately settled on.
    Interesting. There goes some wind out of peoples sails.

    Quote BC wrote:
    I place a lot of value on character. We see practice everyday. We see the games. We know the results. We know the box score stats and we know the advanced analytic stats. We see DeMar as someone who has done a lot in a short period of time and has a much higher ceiling to achieve even more. When this extension kicks in, we feel it will be well within the market.”
    Quote BC wrote:
    Upside is a commodity in this business, and we definitely feel that this is a wise investment. The message to DeMar is that we see him as a keeper.
    Source


    While I'm obviously in the very small Minority, I agree with Colangelo.
    And hearing him say the deal does not affect Flexibility and is Cap-neutral, is a bonus; as I'd imagine he has a far better grasp of the CBA and the Cap than say .. posters here at RR ...
    Last edited by Joey; Thu Nov 1st, 2012 at 05:46 PM.
    "I just dunked. Got a little dunk. Thatís nice." Terrence Ross

  15. #215
    Raptors Republic Starter WhatWhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    411
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    The final straw. I want BC gone now, no matter what. This extension is nothing short of moronic. And BC's defense of it is totally laughable.
    Quote BC wrote:
    We see the games. We know the results. We know the box score stats and we know the advanced analytic stats.
    With makes this far, far more inexcusable.

    Shiiit, we should have just signed Nick Young or OJ Mayo. I'm cheesed; all my optimism is gone. I mean, just LOOK at our cap situation!

  16. #216
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Utrecht, The Netherlands (Yes, that's Europe!)
    Posts
    1,920
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    While I'm obviously in the very small Minority, I agree with Colangelo.
    And hearing him say the deal is Cap-neutral is a bonus; as I'd imagine he has a far better grasp of the CBA and the Cap than say .. posters here at RR ...
    This of course is true; it's true of every move every nba gm or coach makes. That doesn't mean they don't make bad moves that even ignorant fans like me can understand. As Tartakower, a chessplayer from ages long ago once said "It is not enough to be a good player; you must also play well." This goes for Colangelo as well; it's not enough to be more knowledgeable, he also has to make better judgements.

  17. #217
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,803
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Some quotes from Bryan Colangelo:



    Plain and simple.



    Interesting. There goes some wind out of peoples sails.





    Source


    While I'm obviously in the very small Minority, I agree with Colangelo.
    And hearing him say the deal does not affect Flexibility and is Cap-neutral, is a bonus; as I'd imagine he has a far better grasp of the CBA and the Cap than say .. posters here at RR ...
    Was just going to ask if Bryan had been on any of the talk shows yet to put his spin on it. Interesting point. I don't know that he will put it into words but it would be interesting to hear him say the player he envisions that he gave that contract to. Does he expect him to develop a three point shot? Is he content with his level of defense? He will definitely take some grilling. But no doubt, this is a go big or go home move.

  18. #218
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,803
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    BC wrote:
    As far as some of the talk or discussion that weíve lost some of our flexibility: we really havenít, in our opinion. This is somewhat of a cap-neutral deal because going forward, had we issued a qualifying offer or dealt with that next summer in terms of going into restricted free agency, you basically have a situation where there is a cap hold. The cap hold is a little bit higher than the actual qualifying offer. In effect, the cap hold was a number that was at or near the number we ultimately settled on.

    Interesting. Given that this is mostly math, I wonder where the role of opinion comes in. Would be interesting to hear if there is another opinion offering the opposite (specifically to this as opposed the the 11 pages so far).

  19. #219
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,848
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    What kind of numbers would DD have to put up to live up to his new contract?
    20 ppg, 4rpg, 3apg, atleast 45% from the field, atlest 28% from 3(is that too much to ask), and atleast 5 fta. I've always supported DeMar but this contract is a little big. Hopefully he can prove us all wrong and become better than Joe Johnson atleast. and yes, i used the word atleast too many times.

  20. #220
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,803
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Let me start this by saying that this deal is a huge gamble and thus sketchy. So with that in mind, here are some points as the so called devil's advocate. I keep seeing we are screwed because we have a shooting guard that can't hit the three. Well, we have a 4 that hits the three...do most other teams? Some do. His defense is weak. By all accounts, the defense is strong at 1,3 and 5 (yes, after less than 30 minutes of official NBA play, I am putting out that JV is a strong defender...roll with it). Does that suffice? Maybe it is more about building a team rather than expecting each player to do what history suggests they should. What role does he play? Maybe the slasher/rim guy..one day. Who we probably could have gotten for cheaper. But don't let me give the rebuttal. Have away at it. The devil is often wrong.

Page 11 of 14 FirstFirst ... 9 10 11 12 13 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •