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Thread: Is Derozan contract that bad?

  1. #221
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    I'm one of the few supporters of DeMar. I just hope he goes HAM and just dominates this season, its now or never doo it!

  2. #222
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    As far as some of the talk or discussion that we’ve lost some of our flexibility: we really haven’t, in our opinion. This is somewhat of a cap-neutral deal because going forward, had we issued a qualifying offer or dealt with that next summer in terms of going into restricted free agency, you basically have a situation where there is a cap hold. The cap hold is a little bit higher than the actual qualifying offer. In effect, the cap hold was a number that was at or near the number we ultimately settled on.
    The cap hold talk is entirely, absolutely, completely irrelevant. A total red herring.

    The cap hold does not last for 4 years. The cap hold does not take up a roster spot. The cap hold does not shoot 40% from the field. The cap hold isn't a detriment on defense or inefficient on offense. Sitting on a cap hold at the start of next summer is not the same as paying Derozan $40 million or whatever for the next 4 years. Would they be constrained temporarily in the summer fo 2013 cap-wise until they dealt with Derozan? Sure, but now they're constrained for 4 more years.

    The b.s. that comes out of this guy's mouth is reaching record-breaking levels....

  3. #223
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Default Will not meet this contract

    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    Key number is fg%. I'd be ok with 15 ppg if he can shoot nearly 50%
    What blows my mind about this deal is that Demar's going to have to post some serious numbers on BOTH sides of the floor. Even if he does manage 20ppg, he's not going to reach anywhere north of 45% FGs. With the added cast around him that needs the ball, it is just impossible. Also, the drafting to Terence Ross (supposedly an heir to the SG position) is now dubious at best. The sense I'm getting is that they're just gambling on Ross' athleticism and that his development may take longer than expected. As a Bargs basher, I felt that his contract was crazy back then. However, he did have the longest leash on the team and can get away with chucking close to 20 shots per game. Forward to now, Demar doesn't have that luxury. He simply doesn't have it. 7 - 8 mil would've been fine. If the team misses the play-offs, I don't have to chant "Fire BC". He'll be gone! Too bad, we're stuck with DD for four more years.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  4. #224
    Raptors Republic Rookie Raptorboy's Avatar
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    Contract not that bad. Derozan will continue to work hard and will continue getting better. If Ross improves Derozan will be playing well enough to be moved with his contract. Colangelo is afraid to lose him at the end of the season. You can't blame him after the Bosh situation. Coach and Colangelo see Derozan working everyday. They know what he has and where he is capable of getting. Maybe a little overpaid but not enough to worry about. Raps looked good last night. Shitty 4th quarter but gonna be fun to watch this year....go Raps!!

  5. #225
    Raptors Republic Rookie swingman's Avatar
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    I feel that Demar can do better this year, mainly due to the fact his offensive role will shrink. The past few years it has been him and Bargs taking all the shots, but now Lowry, JV, Ross and even Fields (hopefully) will be taking a greater share of attempts.
    In the preseason he showed good efficiency scoring, partly because he was taking better shots. As I believe Matt52 mentioned, Casey wants him to be more conservative with the ball. If he takes smarter shots, and continues to improve the fabled jumpshot, he can be a solid 16-19ppg scorer. Plus, with Kyle, we'll have a good combo to run the break with.
    He didn't turn it over last night, and he upped his steals over the preseason. If he continues to improve his defense, and scoring efficiency, by the last 2 years the contract will be worth it.

    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I'm one of the few supporters of DeMar. I just hope he goes HAM and just dominates this season, its now or never doo it!
    You and me both, man. You and me both.

  6. #226
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    The kinds of rationalizations and qualifications of praise going on by Derozan supporters are reaching award-winning heights.

    If he does this or if his teammates do that and if 25 other things go right and given the fact that...

    There are a lot of smart people here who aren't listening to the left sides of their brains. Wishful thinking and optimism don't git 'er done, dude.

  7. #227
    Raptors Republic Rookie mmissile's Avatar
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    Anytime you can pay 38 million + incentives for a below average, inefficient, one dimentional guard who would not be part of "the core" on a contender, you gotta do it. I NEED to believe that this is a pre trade deal involving DD.

  8. #228
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    The kinds of rationalizations and qualifications of praise going on by Derozan supporters are reaching award-winning heights.

    If he does this or if his teammates do that and if 25 other things go right and given the fact that...

    There are a lot of smart people here who aren't listening to the left sides of their brains. Wishful thinking and optimism don't git 'er done, dude.
    Neither does mindless bashing. "He can't shoot, he can't do this, he can't do that" he can't make me icecream, like calm your ass's down jeez.

  9. #229
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    I think this contract is bad but not "The Worst Deal Ever" as all the hand wringing would suggest. Before the preseason I said I'd be fine overpaying him and qualified that as ~8.5. Now 9.5+ is overpaying on the overpaying IMO, but whadda I know?

    No DD can't shoot the 3, but he's shown a nice midrange game and he's added a nice post game with an emphasis on "3 the hard way" which is a highly undervalued approach as it slows the game down, puts pressure on post d, opens up spots for bargs/Lowry/fields to spot up from and gets opponents in foul trouble (unless the whistles stay as silent all year as in the slugfest that was the opener, unlikely). Like bargs and rebounds we need to accept dd for what he is as opposed to what he isn't.

    Defensively, well hes better than he was, a lil, since his rookie year and now he's locked up dc can really get on him or bench him if he doesn't improve. Kiddie gloves come off. Let's see what happens, just don't hold your breath.

    All that said, I really hope BC is playing chess an not checkers with this one. He's always willing to overpay knowing he can always trade (great line about the shirt collars thing btw) any contract.

  10. #230
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    I just really hope DD makes us eat our words. But the hate shouldn't be directed at DD, it should be directed at BC for bidding against himself. 7.5-8.5 would've been fine IMO. The only way BC can validate the contract is if DD does amazing for himself.

  11. #231
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Neither does mindless bashing. "He can't shoot, he can't do this, he can't do that" he can't make me icecream, like calm your ass's down jeez.
    Haha I agree NoProps. I was going to respond in a very similar way ... but I think you said it in a slightly more colourful way.

    ... I want Ice Cream now though ...
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

  12. #232
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorboy wrote: View Post
    Contract not that bad. Derozan will continue to work hard and will continue getting better. If Ross improves Derozan will be playing well enough to be moved with his contract. Colangelo is afraid to lose him at the end of the season. You can't blame him after the Bosh situation. Coach and Colangelo see Derozan working everyday. They know what he has and where he is capable of getting. Maybe a little overpaid but not enough to worry about. Raps looked good last night. Shitty 4th quarter but gonna be fun to watch this year....go Raps!!
    I'm joey_hesketh, and I approve this Message.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

  13. #233
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    Let me start this by saying that this deal is a huge gamble and thus sketchy. So with that in mind, here are some points as the so called devil's advocate. I keep seeing we are screwed because we have a shooting guard that can't hit the three. Well, we have a 4 that hits the three...do most other teams? Some do. His defense is weak. By all accounts, the defense is strong at 1,3 and 5 (yes, after less than 30 minutes of official NBA play, I am putting out that JV is a strong defender...roll with it). Does that suffice? Maybe it is more about building a team rather than expecting each player to do what history suggests they should. What role does he play? Maybe the slasher/rim guy..one day. Who we probably could have gotten for cheaper. But don't let me give the rebuttal. Have away at it. The devil is often wrong.
    See, a lot of you guys are talking about a better deal like $7-8M, or what it woudl take for DD to earn this contract. Personally for me, I saw no future for DeRozan as a Toronto Raptor. My hope was that he becomes an RFA, someone offers him something, and we let him walk. This is not just a shooting guard who can't hit a three -- he can't dribble, is a virtual black hole when it comes to passing, and he doesn't defend. Basically, I don't think he's any better than a Gerald Green type who happened to be drafted in the lottery and was force-fed minutes early in his career.

    Guys in the league don't suddenly become slasher/rim guys in their 4th year. If they didn't do it consistently in their early years they're certainly not going to start at year 4.
    your pal,
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  14. #234
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    See, a lot of you guys are talking about a better deal like $7-8M, or what it woudl take for DD to earn this contract. Personally for me, I saw no future for DeRozan as a Toronto Raptor. My hope was that he becomes an RFA, someone offers him something, and we let him walk. This is not just a shooting guard who can't hit a three -- he can't dribble, is a virtual black hole when it comes to passing, and he doesn't defend. Basically, I don't think he's any better than a Gerald Green type who happened to be drafted in the lottery and was force-fed minutes early in his career.

    Guys in the league don't suddenly become slasher/rim guys in their 4th year. If they didn't do it consistently in their early years they're certainly not going to start at year 4.
    Players only become RFAs if we extend a qualifying offer. Assuming we didn't sign him to an extension and didn't give a QO, he'd be a unrestricted free agent. Don't quite get the DD hate either, he's a pretty good slasher, it's just all the other parts of his game that's lacking.

    This contract is frighteningly similar to Amir Johnson's contract. Good character guy, but way overpaid for what amounts to a bench player, and with too many players playing the same position. (For Amir, Davis/Bargs; For Derozan, Ross/Fields). Time to find a new GM?

  15. #235
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    "Is Derozan contract that bad?"
    Yes

  16. #236
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Neither does mindless bashing. "He can't shoot, he can't do this, he can't do that" he can't make me icecream, like calm your ass's down jeez.
    Is it considered mindless bashing if it's true? DeRozan can't shoot (well enough for a shooting guard), he can't dribble (well enough for a shooting guard), he can't defend his position, and he doesn't rebound.

    Nothing mindless there. These are, more or less, factual statements.

    Give this man $10 million!!!
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  17. #237
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I'm one of the few supporters of DeMar. I just hope he goes HAM and just dominates this season, its now or never doo it!
    Well there certainly is a precedent for players getting big pay cheques and suddenly kicking it into a higher gear and delivering.

    and fish fly through the air and hamburgers eat people!

  18. #238
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Zewo wrote: View Post
    Players only become RFAs if we extend a qualifying offer. Assuming we didn't sign him to an extension and didn't give a QO, he'd be a unrestricted free agent. Don't quite get the DD hate either, he's a pretty good slasher, it's just all the other parts of his game that's lacking.

    This contract is frighteningly similar to Amir Johnson's contract. Good character guy, but way overpaid for what amounts to a bench player, and with too many players playing the same position. (For Amir, Davis/Bargs; For Derozan, Ross/Fields). Time to find a new GM?
    Had DeRozan not been extended by Oct.31, he would have become a Restricted Free Agent in the offseason, not an Unrestricted Free Agent. The Raptors would have had a $4.5M cap hold, would have been able to match any offer DeRozan received from other teams and would still maintain his 'Bird rights'. The Oct.31 deadline wasn't the deadline to sign/renounce expiring contracts, it was just the in-season deadline to extend players specifically from the '09 draft class.

  19. #239
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Had DeRozan not been extended by Oct.31, he would have become a Restricted Free Agent in the offseason, not an Unrestricted Free Agent. The Raptors would have had a $4.5M cap hold, would have been able to match any offer DeRozan received from other teams and would still maintain his 'Bird rights'. The Oct.31 deadline wasn't the deadline to sign/renounce expiring contracts, it was just the in-season deadline to extend players specifically from the '09 draft class.
    I think the $4.5M was just his QO. The cap hold would be 250% of this years salary ($3.3M), so about $8.25M. However the cap hold would go away if DeMar signed elsewhere or if we renounced it and he became a UFA.

  20. #240
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Had DeRozan not been extended by Oct.31, he would have become a Restricted Free Agent in the offseason, not an Unrestricted Free Agent. The Raptors would have had a $4.5M cap hold, would have been able to match any offer DeRozan received from other teams and would still maintain his 'Bird rights'. The Oct.31 deadline wasn't the deadline to sign/renounce expiring contracts, it was just the in-season deadline to extend players specifically from the '09 draft class.
    I'm not sure this is accurate, actually. We must first put forth the Qualifying Offer, to ensure we have the right of First Refusal. No Qualifying Offer, no RFA.

    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I think the $4.5M was just his QO. The cap hold would be 250% of this years salary ($3.3M), so about $8.25M. However the cap hold would go away if DeMar signed elsewhere or if we renounced it and he became a UFA.
    I see you beat me to it .. with an even better post. Well played Mr. Mars.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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