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Is Derozan contract that bad?

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  • The kinds of rationalizations and qualifications of praise going on by Derozan supporters are reaching award-winning heights.

    If he does this or if his teammates do that and if 25 other things go right and given the fact that...

    There are a lot of smart people here who aren't listening to the left sides of their brains. Wishful thinking and optimism don't git 'er done, dude.

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    • Anytime you can pay 38 million + incentives for a below average, inefficient, one dimentional guard who would not be part of "the core" on a contender, you gotta do it. I NEED to believe that this is a pre trade deal involving DD.

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      • Brandon wrote: View Post
        The kinds of rationalizations and qualifications of praise going on by Derozan supporters are reaching award-winning heights.

        If he does this or if his teammates do that and if 25 other things go right and given the fact that...

        There are a lot of smart people here who aren't listening to the left sides of their brains. Wishful thinking and optimism don't git 'er done, dude.
        Neither does mindless bashing. "He can't shoot, he can't do this, he can't do that" he can't make me icecream, like calm your ass's down jeez.

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        • I think this contract is bad but not "The Worst Deal Ever" as all the hand wringing would suggest. Before the preseason I said I'd be fine overpaying him and qualified that as ~8.5. Now 9.5+ is overpaying on the overpaying IMO, but whadda I know?

          No DD can't shoot the 3, but he's shown a nice midrange game and he's added a nice post game with an emphasis on "3 the hard way" which is a highly undervalued approach as it slows the game down, puts pressure on post d, opens up spots for bargs/Lowry/fields to spot up from and gets opponents in foul trouble (unless the whistles stay as silent all year as in the slugfest that was the opener, unlikely). Like bargs and rebounds we need to accept dd for what he is as opposed to what he isn't.

          Defensively, well hes better than he was, a lil, since his rookie year and now he's locked up dc can really get on him or bench him if he doesn't improve. Kiddie gloves come off. Let's see what happens, just don't hold your breath.

          All that said, I really hope BC is playing chess an not checkers with this one. He's always willing to overpay knowing he can always trade (great line about the shirt collars thing btw) any contract.
          LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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          • I just really hope DD makes us eat our words. But the hate shouldn't be directed at DD, it should be directed at BC for bidding against himself. 7.5-8.5 would've been fine IMO. The only way BC can validate the contract is if DD does amazing for himself.

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            • NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
              Neither does mindless bashing. "He can't shoot, he can't do this, he can't do that" he can't make me icecream, like calm your ass's down jeez.
              Haha I agree NoProps. I was going to respond in a very similar way ... but I think you said it in a slightly more colourful way.

              ... I want Ice Cream now though ...

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              • Raptorboy wrote: View Post
                Contract not that bad. Derozan will continue to work hard and will continue getting better. If Ross improves Derozan will be playing well enough to be moved with his contract. Colangelo is afraid to lose him at the end of the season. You can't blame him after the Bosh situation. Coach and Colangelo see Derozan working everyday. They know what he has and where he is capable of getting. Maybe a little overpaid but not enough to worry about. Raps looked good last night. Shitty 4th quarter but gonna be fun to watch this year....go Raps!!
                I'm joey_hesketh, and I approve this Message.

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                • Jclaw wrote: View Post
                  Let me start this by saying that this deal is a huge gamble and thus sketchy. So with that in mind, here are some points as the so called devil's advocate. I keep seeing we are screwed because we have a shooting guard that can't hit the three. Well, we have a 4 that hits the three...do most other teams? Some do. His defense is weak. By all accounts, the defense is strong at 1,3 and 5 (yes, after less than 30 minutes of official NBA play, I am putting out that JV is a strong defender...roll with it). Does that suffice? Maybe it is more about building a team rather than expecting each player to do what history suggests they should. What role does he play? Maybe the slasher/rim guy..one day. Who we probably could have gotten for cheaper. But don't let me give the rebuttal. Have away at it. The devil is often wrong.
                  See, a lot of you guys are talking about a better deal like $7-8M, or what it woudl take for DD to earn this contract. Personally for me, I saw no future for DeRozan as a Toronto Raptor. My hope was that he becomes an RFA, someone offers him something, and we let him walk. This is not just a shooting guard who can't hit a three -- he can't dribble, is a virtual black hole when it comes to passing, and he doesn't defend. Basically, I don't think he's any better than a Gerald Green type who happened to be drafted in the lottery and was force-fed minutes early in his career.

                  Guys in the league don't suddenly become slasher/rim guys in their 4th year. If they didn't do it consistently in their early years they're certainly not going to start at year 4.
                  your pal,
                  ebrian

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                  • ebrian wrote: View Post
                    See, a lot of you guys are talking about a better deal like $7-8M, or what it woudl take for DD to earn this contract. Personally for me, I saw no future for DeRozan as a Toronto Raptor. My hope was that he becomes an RFA, someone offers him something, and we let him walk. This is not just a shooting guard who can't hit a three -- he can't dribble, is a virtual black hole when it comes to passing, and he doesn't defend. Basically, I don't think he's any better than a Gerald Green type who happened to be drafted in the lottery and was force-fed minutes early in his career.

                    Guys in the league don't suddenly become slasher/rim guys in their 4th year. If they didn't do it consistently in their early years they're certainly not going to start at year 4.
                    Players only become RFAs if we extend a qualifying offer. Assuming we didn't sign him to an extension and didn't give a QO, he'd be a unrestricted free agent. Don't quite get the DD hate either, he's a pretty good slasher, it's just all the other parts of his game that's lacking.

                    This contract is frighteningly similar to Amir Johnson's contract. Good character guy, but way overpaid for what amounts to a bench player, and with too many players playing the same position. (For Amir, Davis/Bargs; For Derozan, Ross/Fields). Time to find a new GM?

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                    • "Is Derozan contract that bad?"
                      Yes

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                      • NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                        Neither does mindless bashing. "He can't shoot, he can't do this, he can't do that" he can't make me icecream, like calm your ass's down jeez.
                        Is it considered mindless bashing if it's true? DeRozan can't shoot (well enough for a shooting guard), he can't dribble (well enough for a shooting guard), he can't defend his position, and he doesn't rebound.

                        Nothing mindless there. These are, more or less, factual statements.

                        Give this man $10 million!!!

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                        • NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                          I'm one of the few supporters of DeMar. I just hope he goes HAM and just dominates this season, its now or never doo it!
                          Well there certainly is a precedent for players getting big pay cheques and suddenly kicking it into a higher gear and delivering.

                          and fish fly through the air and hamburgers eat people!

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                          • Zewo wrote: View Post
                            Players only become RFAs if we extend a qualifying offer. Assuming we didn't sign him to an extension and didn't give a QO, he'd be a unrestricted free agent. Don't quite get the DD hate either, he's a pretty good slasher, it's just all the other parts of his game that's lacking.

                            This contract is frighteningly similar to Amir Johnson's contract. Good character guy, but way overpaid for what amounts to a bench player, and with too many players playing the same position. (For Amir, Davis/Bargs; For Derozan, Ross/Fields). Time to find a new GM?
                            Had DeRozan not been extended by Oct.31, he would have become a Restricted Free Agent in the offseason, not an Unrestricted Free Agent. The Raptors would have had a $4.5M cap hold, would have been able to match any offer DeRozan received from other teams and would still maintain his 'Bird rights'. The Oct.31 deadline wasn't the deadline to sign/renounce expiring contracts, it was just the in-season deadline to extend players specifically from the '09 draft class.

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                            • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                              Had DeRozan not been extended by Oct.31, he would have become a Restricted Free Agent in the offseason, not an Unrestricted Free Agent. The Raptors would have had a $4.5M cap hold, would have been able to match any offer DeRozan received from other teams and would still maintain his 'Bird rights'. The Oct.31 deadline wasn't the deadline to sign/renounce expiring contracts, it was just the in-season deadline to extend players specifically from the '09 draft class.
                              I think the $4.5M was just his QO. The cap hold would be 250% of this years salary ($3.3M), so about $8.25M. However the cap hold would go away if DeMar signed elsewhere or if we renounced it and he became a UFA.

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                              • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                                Had DeRozan not been extended by Oct.31, he would have become a Restricted Free Agent in the offseason, not an Unrestricted Free Agent. The Raptors would have had a $4.5M cap hold, would have been able to match any offer DeRozan received from other teams and would still maintain his 'Bird rights'. The Oct.31 deadline wasn't the deadline to sign/renounce expiring contracts, it was just the in-season deadline to extend players specifically from the '09 draft class.
                                I'm not sure this is accurate, actually. We must first put forth the Qualifying Offer, to ensure we have the right of First Refusal. No Qualifying Offer, no RFA.

                                planetmars wrote: View Post
                                I think the $4.5M was just his QO. The cap hold would be 250% of this years salary ($3.3M), so about $8.25M. However the cap hold would go away if DeMar signed elsewhere or if we renounced it and he became a UFA.
                                I see you beat me to it .. with an even better post. Well played Mr. Mars.

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