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Is Derozan contract that bad?

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  • koncept wrote: View Post
    Yahoo's Kelly Dwyer's take on the contract. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...4485--nba.html
    The move is so laughable and distressing that you almost wonder if Colangelo is salting the sod for the next GM to take over.
    I would have been unhappy if we would have paid 7 mil a year. That would have really made me question Colangelo.

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    • IROR wrote: View Post

      So all the haters of this deal should realize a few things:

      A) It's better to keep a player like Demar because he undoubtedly will improve and increase in value (Like what Ujiri in Denver has done with his extensions.)
      B) This would have been a STUPID distraction from the team in such an important season (this alone makes this deal easy for me to take)
      C) If the Raps didn't offer it, some other team would have next summer in RFA because nearly all GMs pay the premium for potential, and gladly do so.

      All you gotta do is look at Harden's deal from HOU to see how these things work. Is Harden worth that? No, but he probably will be soon.
      A) I'll take that bet. After 200+ games playing major minutes and being given a starring role, you pretty much know what you have. All you have to do is look at JV in his first game and Derozan in his 200th to know the story about talent.

      B) What? Guys play hard in contract years cause they want to get paid. Tonnes of guys play out deals for the sole purpose of upping their FA value. There's no distraction. This is nonsense.

      C) Who cares? Hanging on to Derozan is not critical to this team's development. He's a below average SG. If someone wants to pay him $10 million, good for them. The fact that a bunch of teams in the NBA sign terrible contracts doesn't mean Toronto has to do the same thing.

      Comment


      • Jclaw wrote: View Post
        I agree with most of what he says but it sort of falls apart when he said it is the same bad idea as the Bargnani contract. That one seemed bad at first but now is quite palatable. I think a poll on this site would argue that but still tilt towards the positive side. Hopefully we will say the same about DeMar one day. Not many people seem to think we will
        I've never been a Bargnani basher, but he has never ever lived up to his paycheque untill a few games last year. So he's not been worth his contract so far. And worst of it all with the DeRozan signing is that DeRozan has even shown less than Bargnani did when he got his contract and DeRozan doesn't have any unique skills which make you dream of being an amazing mismatch on offense; DeRozan only comes with unique weaknesses.

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        • Some quotes from Bryan Colangelo:

          BC wrote:
          He’s been developing and progressing to a level that we felt that he is an asset. We wanted to retain the asset. This is mostly about asset retention.
          Plain and simple.

          BC wrote:
          As far as some of the talk or discussion that we’ve lost some of our flexibility: we really haven’t, in our opinion. This is somewhat of a cap-neutral deal because going forward, had we issued a qualifying offer or dealt with that next summer in terms of going into restricted free agency, you basically have a situation where there is a cap hold. The cap hold is a little bit higher than the actual qualifying offer. In effect, the cap hold was a number that was at or near the number we ultimately settled on.
          Interesting. There goes some wind out of peoples sails.

          BC wrote:
          I place a lot of value on character. We see practice everyday. We see the games. We know the results. We know the box score stats and we know the advanced analytic stats. We see DeMar as someone who has done a lot in a short period of time and has a much higher ceiling to achieve even more. When this extension kicks in, we feel it will be well within the market.”
          BC wrote:
          Upside is a commodity in this business, and we definitely feel that this is a wise investment. The message to DeMar is that we see him as a keeper.
          Source


          While I'm obviously in the very small Minority, I agree with Colangelo.
          And hearing him say the deal does not affect Flexibility and is Cap-neutral, is a bonus; as I'd imagine he has a far better grasp of the CBA and the Cap than say .. posters here at RR ...
          Last edited by Joey; Thu Nov 1, 2012, 05:46 PM.

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          • The final straw. I want BC gone now, no matter what. This extension is nothing short of moronic. And BC's defense of it is totally laughable.
            BC wrote:
            We see the games. We know the results. We know the box score stats and we know the advanced analytic stats.
            With makes this far, far more inexcusable.

            Shiiit, we should have just signed Nick Young or OJ Mayo. I'm cheesed; all my optimism is gone. I mean, just LOOK at our cap situation!

            Comment


            • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
              While I'm obviously in the very small Minority, I agree with Colangelo.
              And hearing him say the deal is Cap-neutral is a bonus; as I'd imagine he has a far better grasp of the CBA and the Cap than say .. posters here at RR ...
              This of course is true; it's true of every move every nba gm or coach makes. That doesn't mean they don't make bad moves that even ignorant fans like me can understand. As Tartakower, a chessplayer from ages long ago once said "It is not enough to be a good player; you must also play well." This goes for Colangelo as well; it's not enough to be more knowledgeable, he also has to make better judgements.

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              • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                Some quotes from Bryan Colangelo:



                Plain and simple.



                Interesting. There goes some wind out of peoples sails.





                Source


                While I'm obviously in the very small Minority, I agree with Colangelo.
                And hearing him say the deal does not affect Flexibility and is Cap-neutral, is a bonus; as I'd imagine he has a far better grasp of the CBA and the Cap than say .. posters here at RR ...
                Was just going to ask if Bryan had been on any of the talk shows yet to put his spin on it. Interesting point. I don't know that he will put it into words but it would be interesting to hear him say the player he envisions that he gave that contract to. Does he expect him to develop a three point shot? Is he content with his level of defense? He will definitely take some grilling. But no doubt, this is a go big or go home move.

                Comment


                • BC wrote:
                  As far as some of the talk or discussion that we’ve lost some of our flexibility: we really haven’t, in our opinion. This is somewhat of a cap-neutral deal because going forward, had we issued a qualifying offer or dealt with that next summer in terms of going into restricted free agency, you basically have a situation where there is a cap hold. The cap hold is a little bit higher than the actual qualifying offer. In effect, the cap hold was a number that was at or near the number we ultimately settled on.

                  Interesting. Given that this is mostly math, I wonder where the role of opinion comes in. Would be interesting to hear if there is another opinion offering the opposite (specifically to this as opposed the the 11 pages so far).

                  Comment


                  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                    What kind of numbers would DD have to put up to live up to his new contract?
                    20 ppg, 4rpg, 3apg, atleast 45% from the field, atlest 28% from 3(is that too much to ask), and atleast 5 fta. I've always supported DeMar but this contract is a little big. Hopefully he can prove us all wrong and become better than Joe Johnson atleast. and yes, i used the word atleast too many times.

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                    • Let me start this by saying that this deal is a huge gamble and thus sketchy. So with that in mind, here are some points as the so called devil's advocate. I keep seeing we are screwed because we have a shooting guard that can't hit the three. Well, we have a 4 that hits the three...do most other teams? Some do. His defense is weak. By all accounts, the defense is strong at 1,3 and 5 (yes, after less than 30 minutes of official NBA play, I am putting out that JV is a strong defender...roll with it). Does that suffice? Maybe it is more about building a team rather than expecting each player to do what history suggests they should. What role does he play? Maybe the slasher/rim guy..one day. Who we probably could have gotten for cheaper. But don't let me give the rebuttal. Have away at it. The devil is often wrong.

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                      • I'm one of the few supporters of DeMar. I just hope he goes HAM and just dominates this season, its now or never doo it!

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                        • As far as some of the talk or discussion that we’ve lost some of our flexibility: we really haven’t, in our opinion. This is somewhat of a cap-neutral deal because going forward, had we issued a qualifying offer or dealt with that next summer in terms of going into restricted free agency, you basically have a situation where there is a cap hold. The cap hold is a little bit higher than the actual qualifying offer. In effect, the cap hold was a number that was at or near the number we ultimately settled on.
                          The cap hold talk is entirely, absolutely, completely irrelevant. A total red herring.

                          The cap hold does not last for 4 years. The cap hold does not take up a roster spot. The cap hold does not shoot 40% from the field. The cap hold isn't a detriment on defense or inefficient on offense. Sitting on a cap hold at the start of next summer is not the same as paying Derozan $40 million or whatever for the next 4 years. Would they be constrained temporarily in the summer fo 2013 cap-wise until they dealt with Derozan? Sure, but now they're constrained for 4 more years.

                          The b.s. that comes out of this guy's mouth is reaching record-breaking levels....

                          Comment


                          • Will not meet this contract

                            Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
                            Key number is fg%. I'd be ok with 15 ppg if he can shoot nearly 50%
                            What blows my mind about this deal is that Demar's going to have to post some serious numbers on BOTH sides of the floor. Even if he does manage 20ppg, he's not going to reach anywhere north of 45% FGs. With the added cast around him that needs the ball, it is just impossible. Also, the drafting to Terence Ross (supposedly an heir to the SG position) is now dubious at best. The sense I'm getting is that they're just gambling on Ross' athleticism and that his development may take longer than expected. As a Bargs basher, I felt that his contract was crazy back then. However, he did have the longest leash on the team and can get away with chucking close to 20 shots per game. Forward to now, Demar doesn't have that luxury. He simply doesn't have it. 7 - 8 mil would've been fine. If the team misses the play-offs, I don't have to chant "Fire BC". He'll be gone! Too bad, we're stuck with DD for four more years.
                            “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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                            • Contract not that bad. Derozan will continue to work hard and will continue getting better. If Ross improves Derozan will be playing well enough to be moved with his contract. Colangelo is afraid to lose him at the end of the season. You can't blame him after the Bosh situation. Coach and Colangelo see Derozan working everyday. They know what he has and where he is capable of getting. Maybe a little overpaid but not enough to worry about. Raps looked good last night. Shitty 4th quarter but gonna be fun to watch this year....go Raps!!

                              Comment


                              • I feel that Demar can do better this year, mainly due to the fact his offensive role will shrink. The past few years it has been him and Bargs taking all the shots, but now Lowry, JV, Ross and even Fields (hopefully) will be taking a greater share of attempts.
                                In the preseason he showed good efficiency scoring, partly because he was taking better shots. As I believe Matt52 mentioned, Casey wants him to be more conservative with the ball. If he takes smarter shots, and continues to improve the fabled jumpshot, he can be a solid 16-19ppg scorer. Plus, with Kyle, we'll have a good combo to run the break with.
                                He didn't turn it over last night, and he upped his steals over the preseason. If he continues to improve his defense, and scoring efficiency, by the last 2 years the contract will be worth it.

                                NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                                I'm one of the few supporters of DeMar. I just hope he goes HAM and just dominates this season, its now or never doo it!
                                You and me both, man. You and me both.

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