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Thread: Final possession. Call was fishy.

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Refs were not our problem last night. At all. That replayed call - even as a homer was a 50/50 call .. could have gone either way. Same with the West / AB push off. What you have to take into account is that AB was getting schooled by West the last 5 or 6 possessions. As a result, when you see AB fall, as a ref, you are likely thinking hes trying to bail himself out cause he cant stop this guy (which was the case at the time) ... as a result, West gets the benefit of the doubt.

    To be clear our issues last night were
    - Crunch time execution
    - Having 5 bench players on in the fourth who cant score and letting our 10+ point lead evaporate before finally getting at least Lowry back in
    - AB's inability to stop West / our coaches inability to switch someone else, double team or do something else
    -......



    - a couple of close calls (distant from the above in terms of importance)

  2. #22
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote RAPresenting wrote: View Post
    Final possession wasn't what bugged me it was that the didn't get Dre a touch for the 5 before that. Raptors offense staled and they couldn't get a stop. I realize Jose hit some 3's but we gave just as much on the other end of the floor and then some when he was on the floor. I don't mind the 2 PG system for a few minutes but they basically ran 2 PG --for the whole 4th quarter. They should have played a better defensive line up down the stretch when they had leads of 8 and 6 for several minutes IMO.

    On a side note Fields and Anderson combining for 0 points in 40+ minutes is horrendous. Anderson had a few steals and assists but 0 points for a combined 0-9 and we lose by 2 is tough pill to swallow.
    If you include Ross and Lucas, then our wings (excluding DeRozan) were 0-12. DeRozan was just 5-14. That's 5-26 for our wings combined. Our wings shot a combined 19.2% on 26 shots!

  3. #23
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Refs were not our problem last night. At all. That replayed call - even as a homer was a 50/50 call .. could have gone either way. Same with the West / AB push off. What you have to take into account is that AB was getting schooled by West the last 5 or 6 possessions. As a result, when you see AB fall, as a ref, you are likely thinking hes trying to bail himself out cause he cant stop this guy (which was the case at the time) ... as a result, West gets the benefit of the doubt.

    To be clear our issues last night were
    - Crunch time execution
    - Having 5 bench players on in the fourth who cant score and letting our 10+ point lead evaporate before finally getting at least Lowry back in- AB's inability to stop West / our coaches inability to switch someone else, double team or do something else
    -......



    - a couple of close calls (distant from the above in terms of importance)
    I agree completely. Aside from Calderon (and this isn't usually the case), we have no go-to scorers on our 2nd unit. I couldn't figure out why Casey left them on for so long in the 4th quarter, just letting the lead evaporate. Bad coaching, bad shooting (way too many selfish possessions and settling for long jumpers in the last 5 mins) and soft drives (I'm looking at you $40 man!) cost us that game, not the refs.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    You're absolutely correct. Why shoot the long 2 (also known as the LEAST efficient shot in basketball)? Anyone who takes such a shot, at any moment, should be shot.
    Hahahaha I agree!!! Shoot the shooter!!

    I guess what im trying to imply is a shot is a shot, you cant really run a whole list of analysis through your head when your feet are already set and your brain is telling you to take that shot. Even the best of 'em takes long twos, be it early or deep in the game.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    Hahahaha I agree!!! Shoot the shooter!!

    I guess what im trying to imply is a shot is a shot, you cant really run a whole list of analysis through your head when your feet are already set and your brain is telling you to take that shot. Even the best of 'em takes long twos, be it early or deep in the game.
    IMO, it's a lack of discipline. In the same way non-3-point shooters can resist shooting the 3 (even if wide open), everyone should be able to resist wasting possessions by jacking up long 2s.

    The NBA should paint a 4-foot thick line inside the 3-point line, paint it red, and say, "any basket scored from here is worth zero". That's the only way these idiots will learn....
    Last edited by Nilanka; Thu Nov 1st, 2012 at 12:23 PM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    ...Aside from Calderon (and this isn't usually the case), we have no go-to scorers on our 2nd unit....
    Last year Lucas shot .393 from 3pt land. And .875 for FT's.
    Anderson shot .393 from 3pt land and .85 for FT's.

    Yes Casey may have left them in for too long, but both have shown the ability to score in the past. If they miss three baskets, that doesn't mean they aren't going to hit the next two, while playing within the rhythm of the game. I didn't think either guy was forcing their shots. In fact, just before Lucas came in I remember thinking "They need Lucas in here since nobody else is hitting their shots."

    Coach can only do what he can do, but if DeMar, Fields and Ross aren't hitting, who you going to put in?

  7. #27
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Last year Lucas shot .393 from 3pt land. And .875 for FT's.
    Anderson shot .393 from 3pt land and .85 for FT's.

    Yes Casey may have left them in for too long, but both have shown the ability to score in the past. If they miss three baskets, that doesn't mean they aren't going to hit the next two, while playing within the rhythm of the game. I didn't think either guy was forcing their shots. In fact, just before Lucas came in I remember thinking "They need Lucas in here since nobody else is hitting their shots."

    Coach can only do what he can do, but if DeMar, Fields and Ross aren't hitting, who you going to put in?
    I was only commenting on their performance last night. It was clear that Calderon/Anderson/Amir/Davis and either Ross or Lucas, had zero chemistry in that 4th quarter and the offense was at a complete standstill, allowing Indi to climb back into the game. If it was clear to us watching, then I expect it should have been just as clear to Casey and his coaching staff. They could have even staggered bringing Lowry, DeRozan and Bargnani back so they could get their rest, while still ensuring a top scoring threat was on the court. I viewed that as poor adapting to the game conditions (not putting in a defensive sub for Bargnani in the 4th when it was clear the flu had entirely zapped his energy was another example) by Casey, which was always one of my biggest complaints about Triano. I think that poor coaching in the 4th and poor offensive execution (ie: too many long 2's and drives with weak finishing) down the stretch is what cost the Raps the game. I really think we gave it away.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Nov 1st, 2012 at 01:49 PM.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I was only commenting on their performance last night. It was clear that Calderon/Anderson/Amir/Davis and either Ross or Lucas, had zero chemistry in that 4th quarter and the offense was at a complete standstill, allowing Indi to climb back into the game. If it was clear to us watching, then I expect it should have been just as clear to Casey and his coaching staff. They could have even staggered bringing Lowry, DeRozan and Bargnani back so they could get their rest, while still ensuring a top scoring threat was on the court. I viewed that as poor adapting to the game conditions (not putting in a defensive sub for Bargnani in the 4th when it was clear the flu had entirely zapped his energy was another example) by Casey, which was always one of my biggest complaints about Triano. I think that poor coaching in the 4th and poor offensive execution (ie: too many long 2's and drives with weak finishing) down the stretch is what cost the Raps the game. I really think we gave it away.
    I wasnt suprised they went with Bargs at the end, but i think Lowry couldve gotten a better shot than the one Bargs threw up.

  9. #29
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    I was watching the first half of the Blazers-Lakers game the Trail Blazers commentator was not very fond of Leon Wood. He said something like the following:

    "Leon Wood from his usual half court position calls a pushing call on that the two referees close to the action did not see. Typical call for Leon but it's rather unusual we hear his whistle before the start of the 2nd quarter. Go back to sleep Leon".

    I did not think it was an attempt at humor as the commentator picked on him throughout the first half. He never referred to another referee by name.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    If you include Ross and Lucas, then our wings (excluding DeRozan) were 0-12. DeRozan was just 5-14. That's 5-26 for our wings combined. Our wings shot a combined 19.2% on 26 shots!
    Adding those guys in doesn't make it any better for sure lol. Wings haven been the issue for years and nights like last looking like the hole is still there.

    Friday fingers crossed for some buckets from Fields, Anderson and Ross.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    I was watching the first half of the Blazers-Lakers game the Trail Blazers commentator was not very fond of Leon Wood. He said something like the following:

    "Leon Wood from his usual half court position calls a pushing call on that the two referees close to the action did not see. Typical call for Leon but it's rather unusual we hear his whistle before the start of the 2nd quarter. Go back to sleep Leon".

    I did not think it was an attempt at humor as the commentator picked on him throughout the first half. He never referred to another referee by name.
    Those Portland Commentators last night were pretty much trash talkin anyone not in a Blazers Uniform at least in the 4th Q when i was watching.. 1 of them was commenting on Gasol complaining for a foul call, saying the lakers havent cryed since the 2nd Q so they were due..LOL seems refs are pretty inconsistant all over the league... maybe they need replacement refs LOL
    Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Thu Nov 1st, 2012 at 02:54 PM.

  12. #32
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    The raptors blew the game with bad subbing and not hitting shots. This was there game for the taking. The play that bothers me is that out of bounds call with 20 seconds to go. The refs spent over a minute after the play to say it was pacers ball. Then they go look at the replay and say they don't have enough evidence to over turn the play. THe refs didn't see the who knocked the ball out so how could they ever said it was indiana ball? This should have been a jump ball play between the centres. This call was a game changer and because the refs obviously didn't see who knocked the ball out they should not be able to say it was pacers ball before the review.
    The review didn't show 100% evidence of who knocked the ball out of bounds but physics would say that based on how gerald greens hand was moving and how the ball was knocked out of bounds that gerald green knocked the ball out of bounds. The NBA needs to get there act together on these type of plays and stop allowing biased refering effect the outcome of the game.

  13. #33
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    DeRozan looked like he expected that all he had to do was stroll into the lane and he'd get a call. I saw maybe one play where it should have been a call, but the rest of his "drives" were so soft that he didn't deserve a call. He needs to do what truly great, athletic wing players do... take it hard, take it high and attempt to posterize the defenders! Don't go soft and throw up a circus shot while attempting to avoid/minimize contact... that just gives the refs a reason to make it a 50/50 call. If he goes up and tries to posterize them, he won't give the refs a choice but to blow the whistle!
    This.

    It probably doesn't help that DeMar was so blatant about his frustration that he wasn't getting those calls. The more he goes fishing for calls the worse it will be.

    I wish players took that frustration at not getting the calls and channeled it into driving the lane harder and harder.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    There were too many bad calls in this game. This is honestly a case of it looking like the officials are "letting them play" but they let it get out of hand. There were so many fouls on both ends. Love him or hate him, at least 2 or 3 of Demar's drives really deserved a call. I mean, they missed that obvious out-of-bounds when Indy clearly tipped it. So nasty. I mean, JV also didn't attempt a FT, and the guy was battling under the glass all night on both ends. You'd think he'd make even one trip or something on a loose ball foul. Really, this was just a nasty game that's best forgotten.

  15. #35
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    Quote Frankthetank wrote: View Post
    The raptors blew the game with bad subbing and not hitting shots. This was there game for the taking. The play that bothers me is that out of bounds call with 20 seconds to go. The refs spent over a minute after the play to say it was pacers ball. Then they go look at the replay and say they don't have enough evidence to over turn the play. THe refs didn't see the who knocked the ball out so how could they ever said it was indiana ball? This should have been a jump ball play between the centres. This call was a game changer and because the refs obviously didn't see who knocked the ball out they should not be able to say it was pacers ball before the review.
    The review didn't show 100% evidence of who knocked the ball out of bounds but physics would say that based on how gerald greens hand was moving and how the ball was knocked out of bounds that gerald green knocked the ball out of bounds. The NBA needs to get there act together on these type of plays and stop allowing biased refering effect the outcome of the game.
    You're absolutely correct with the physics point. I was beginning to wonder of I was being a homer as the only one that could see that. Most are saying it wasn't clear, but there was at least one camera angle (slightly behind) that showed the physics of it quite clearly, and the baseline one shows Jose's hand getting displaced by Hill(?) and being slightly lower and further from the ball. Unless Jose snaked his fingers through Hill's fingers, there doesn't seem to be any way it hits Jose's hand. But, as you say, the definitive factor is the direction the ball took, vs the movement of both players' hands. It kills me that they use the replay and still get it wrong!! I've seen a couple of replay calls like that in the CFL the past couple of weeks, that were very clearly not the call they stuck to. *shaking head*

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Rookie badbob's Avatar
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    Bottom line the ball that was tiped out of bounds by who knows what team Raptor's or Pacers.....because not one of the ref's saw the play it should have been ruled a jump ball and then they go to the replay to take a look at it and then make a decision on who gets the ball. But if the replay cannot see then the ball goes to a jump ball the decision which was made on the court. But because the ref's made a quess at who should have the ball after the play well on the court they had to give it to the pacers because it was the first ruling they made on the court before they took a look at the replay. Bottom line it should have been a jump ball ; the ref's made a very bad error and it cost the raptor's a chance at winning the game!!!

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Starter b2kelly's Avatar
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    Here is what it comes down to. I watched the closing seconds of the New Orleans / Spurs game last night.. the Hornets were up by 3 with a few seconds left and the crowd was sure the Hornets had this game. I knew they would lose though, and of course they did. Parker hit a 3 and duncan finished it off. There is just something that good teams have, that bad teams don't.. a winning mentality and finding a way to put games away when it matters.

    As much as I love the Raps, they are like the Hornets, and lack that special something to actually win games.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    put it this way. If we shot 40% from the field, the pacers would have lost by 5 -10 points easy. Bad offensive possessions fucked us up. If Landry can figure out how to hit a wide open 3 pointer we would have won, he missed an easy look in the 3rd or 4th quarter. But whatever, our entire team is re structured so i'll let this one slide. Like matt said, bring on brooklyn! we'll "beat up on them" - Kyle Lowry

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote badbob wrote: View Post
    Bottom line the ball that was tiped out of bounds by who knows what team Raptor's or Pacers.....because not one of the ref's saw the play it should have been ruled a jump ball and then they go to the replay to take a look at it and then make a decision on who gets the ball. But if the replay cannot see then the ball goes to a jump ball the decision which was made on the court. But because the ref's made a quess at who should have the ball after the play well on the court they had to give it to the pacers because it was the first ruling they made on the court before they took a look at the replay. Bottom line it should have been a jump ball ; the ref's made a very bad error and it cost the raptor's a chance at winning the game!!!
    Jump ball between Gerald Green and Jose! are you mad! Unless jose found his inner vince carter, there is no way we would have won the jump ball.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Starter theycallmeZZ's Avatar
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    Sigh... nothing can be done now... just need to look forward to the other 81...
    TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

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