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Thread: Calderon Dilema could torpedo season

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Default Calderon Dilema could torpedo season

    Trying to find Calderon minutes in order to keep his numbers up for trade value is a risky GAMBIT.

    He looked terrible last night as he was at the helm of a very flaccid predictable offense that frittered away a 10 point lead.

    he is taking minutes from Tross' Development and a much speedier and more potent JL3.

    DROSS is better all around at the 2 than Calderon
    JL3 is better at the 1 than Calderon ------- so WTF???


    Calderon had a decent preseason but he was right back on form last night getting owned by 2nd stringer
    CJ Watson who was 6-9 - 15pts (+5)
    Calderon 1-5 2pts 21 mins (-7)

    Two reasons why I am sick of watching Calderon
    1) he can't go get his own shot
    2) he can't defend the point of attack

    I think BC is mandating that DC give Calderon run. At some point in the season BC will have to come to his senses and realize that Caldone could be the final nail in his coffin.

    If this team does not improve and develop BOTH rookies his ass is gone - and that can't happen until they sit Calderon down next to LK at the end of the bench.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    charlez, seems like you woke up on the "everything is broken" side of the bed instead of the "lost two close games, we should have won, against projected top eastern teams." side

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Sheptor's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Trying to find Calderon minutes in order to keep his numbers up for trade value is a risky GAMBIT.

    He looked terrible last night as he was at the helm of a very flaccid predictable offense that frittered away a 10 point lead.

    he is taking minutes from Tross' Development and a much speedier and more potent JL3.

    DROSS is better all around at the 2 than Calderon
    JL3 is better at the 1 than Calderon ------- so WTF???


    Calderon had a decent preseason but he was right back on form last night getting owned by 2nd stringer
    CJ Watson who was 6-9 - 15pts (+5)
    Calderon 1-5 2pts 21 mins (-7)

    Two reasons why I am sick of watching Calderon
    1) he can't go get his own shot
    2) he can't defend the point of attack

    I think BC is mandating that DC give Calderon run. At some point in the season BC will have to come to his senses and realize that Caldone could be the final nail in his coffin.

    If this team does not improve and develop BOTH rookies his ass is gone - and that can't happen until they sit Calderon down next to LK at the end of the bench.
    JL3 is NOT better at the 1 than Calderon. Lucas did nothing last night but try and get his own and fail by dribbling to one side and hoisting up off balanced contested shots. Calderon did however find a few timely dimes in the 4th to make it close even if he wasn't scoring, and you can't deny his contributions in the first game.

    If we trade Calderon now and leave JL3 to be our primary back-up and think we'll be worse for wear. Calderon has a calming presence and when TRoss does get some burn with Jose he'll be glad it's him and not Mighty Mouse the second running around trying to put up 10 points in his 4 mins of play no matter what the situation in front of him. Calderon is best dealt at Trade Deadline if we are in fact on the bubble of post season say maybe 10th seed and 6 games out. A chance but unlikely. If we are 6-10 but only a few game out I say keep him. Playoffs are the only thing that matter right now, another season of losing will completely take the wind out of the sails for this franchise. The hype is now so it has to be now and if Jose is contributing to that through leadership or chemistry ALONE I would rather see him here regardless of contract situation.

    Bottom line..this team does not become better by simply giving Jose's minutes to Ross and JL3. Ross does need minutes and should be behind DD, Jose behind Lowry. None of this Two point guard stuff in the BEGINNING of games. 4th qtr sometimes.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    ...I think BC is mandating that DC give Calderon run....
    This is the whole point of your post. You imagine this to be the case and then talk about it as if it is true. Can you see Casey playing Calderon a specific number of minutes each night while it costs the Raps a win, just because BC told him so? Don't both Casey and BC establish themselves more firmly with MLSE if the Raptors win? Don't waste time erecting a straw man just so you have something to knock down.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Sheptor wrote: View Post
    JL3 is NOT better at the 1 than Calderon. Lucas did nothing last night but try and get his own and fail by dribbling to one side and hoisting up off balanced contested shots. Calderon did however find a few timely dimes in the 4th to make it close even if he wasn't scoring, and you can't deny his contributions in the first game.
    JL3 needs some run to get in to rhythm. Every time he has gotten 15+ minutes he produces (even last year with bulls).

    Defense needs to play him honest or they will get burned unlike Calderon who is the worst driving PG in the league.

    Calderon will get you more assists because he has no confidence beat his man so looks to facilitate unless his feet are set and he is playing off the ball.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    This is the whole point of your post. You imagine this to be the case and then talk about it as if it is true. Can you see Casey playing Calderon a specific number of minutes each night while it costs the Raps a win, just because BC told him so? Don't both Casey and BC establish themselves more firmly with MLSE if the Raptors win? Don't waste time erecting a straw man just so you have something to knock down.
    great point. +1

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    This is the whole point of your post. You imagine this to be the case and then talk about it as if it is true. Can you see Casey playing Calderon a specific number of minutes each night while it costs the Raps a win, just because BC told him so? Don't both Casey and BC establish themselves more firmly with MLSE if the Raptors win? Don't waste time erecting a straw man just so you have something to knock down.
    make no mistake about it BC hired DC and is his boss.

    the dynamic always is that any good GM will listen and take counsel from his head coach. And when your head coach is an revered like Doug Collins or Larry Brown you can bet they have more clout with owners and GMS.

    That being said there is nothing about Calderon that fits in to DC's ideology other than that he appears to be coachable and plays as hard as he can. But he is not quick defensive or athletic.

    So I can only deduce he is getting minutes over other players who are more worthy (IMHO) because it is mandated.
    Last edited by charlz; Sun Nov 4th, 2012 at 08:24 AM.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    make no mistake about it BC hired CD and is his boss.

    the dynamic always is that any good GM will listen and take counsel from his head coach. And when your head coach is an revered like Doug Collins or Larry Brown you can bet they have more clout with owners and GMS.

    That being said there is nothing about Calderon that fits in to DC's ideology other than that he appears to be coachable and plays as hard as he can. But he is not quick defensive or athletic.

    So I can only deduce he is getting minutes over other players who are more worthy (IMHO) because it is mandated.
    Your perception is your reality so I guess you can't be faulted for that.

    My perception is opinions should not be confused as fact.

    Another theory is Calderon is getting as much burn as possible to increase his trade value. Having him sit on the bench or play ~15mins per game is not going to help much.

    Now I have no idea if this is true or not and I am certainly not pretending I have any clue, just thoughts.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Another theory is Calderon is getting as much burn as possible to increase his trade value. Having him sit on the bench or play ~15mins per game is not going to help much.
    Yes agreed, that is the point of the thread.

    They want to get something for him but in the end it could backfire:
    - hamper the confidence and development of ROSS
    - More calderon = more of the same (losses).
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Yes agreed, that is the point of the thread.

    They want to get something for him but in the end it could backfire:
    - hamper the confidence and development of ROSS
    - More calderon = more of the same (losses).
    2 games in, I'm not ready to say the season is lost given the Raps could have won these games.

    As for Ross, if he has the character that has been hyped about him, his lack of playing time is 1) understood as he is a rookie, and 2) fuel to the fire for desire to improve.

    And do I ever hope JC returns something!

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    2 games in, I'm not ready to say the season is lost given the Raps could have won these games.

    As for Ross, if he has the character that has been hyped about him, his lack of playing time is 1) understood as he is a rookie, and 2) fuel to the fire for desire to improve.

    And do I ever hope JC returns something!
    There is not much of a market for JC - you have to hope and pray a veteran team with a rim protector runs very thin @ PG to get anything for him (ie. knicks, spurs)

    If you can't move him at some point you have to cut your losses and move forward... The future is now. There are a lot of new and young players on this team and they need to develop ASAP the fan base is becoming very agitated.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    There is not much of a market for JC - you have to hope and pray a veteran team with a rim protector runs very thin @ PG to get anything for him (ie. knicks, spurts)
    From a basketball perspective, yes.

    From a financial perspective, there could be a market but that is likely not going to come about until late Dec/Jan when teams know what they have and where they are in the standings.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    I would put JC on ice unless someone gets injured.

    at the deadline find one of these teams looking to move a big contract and bundle him with any swing man without the last name DeRozen take back a big contract... or just let him walk and try and get another free agent - BC has had great luck with that LOL
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Calderon looks bad right now because he's either:

    a) playing with a second unit that has no scoring punch and lacks guys he can set up for jumpers (which is what Calderon does best)
    or
    b) playing with the starts AND Lowry, where he's asked to be a poor facsimile of a shooting guard

    Neither of those are roles he excels in. I think once the rotations are whittled down and Casey moves away from putting an entire second unit in together you'll see Jose's impact increase. He needs a scoring threat out there with him, playing with Amir, Ed Davis, Anderon, etc. isn't the best use of his abilities.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Deadallus's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    Trying to find Calderon minutes in order to keep his numbers up for trade value is a risky GAMBIT.

    He looked terrible last night as he was at the helm of a very flaccid predictable offense that frittered away a 10 point lead.

    he is taking minutes from Tross' Development and a much speedier and more potent JL3.

    DROSS is better all around at the 2 than Calderon
    JL3 is better at the 1 than Calderon ------- so WTF???


    Calderon had a decent preseason but he was right back on form last night getting owned by 2nd stringer
    CJ Watson who was 6-9 - 15pts (+5)
    Calderon 1-5 2pts 21 mins (-7)

    Two reasons why I am sick of watching Calderon
    1) he can't go get his own shot
    2) he can't defend the point of attack

    I think BC is mandating that DC give Calderon run. At some point in the season BC will have to come to his senses and realize that Caldone could be the final nail in his coffin.

    If this team does not improve and develop BOTH rookies his ass is gone - and that can't happen until they sit Calderon down next to LK at the end of the bench.
    JL3 is not a better point guard than Calderon, lets squash that right away. He is a scorer, but with a second unit that lacks players who can create their own shot you need a distributor out there, unless you want JL3 to chuck up shots and play him with a bunch of garbage men to clean up his misses.
    Deadallus

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Deadallus wrote: View Post
    JL3 is not a better point guard than Calderon, lets squash that right away. He is a scorer, but with a second unit that lacks players who can create their own shot you need a distributor out there, unless you want JL3 to chuck up shots and play him with a bunch of garbage men to clean up his misses.
    I agree he is a scorer - but I think that is what you need when you have inept wing production on the second until.

    HE will get his own shot and when the Defense keys on him it will open up things for the *gulp* dynamic wing production of Fields and Anderson.

    the question is will the second unit run better with a pass-first guy (Calderon) or a guy with great scoring ability who requires attention from the defense...

    I suppose my opinion (rightly or wrongly) is JL3
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    I can't believe anyone could think JL3 is better at anything other than chucking than Jose. Doesn't even begin to compute. JL3 can't get anyone else the rock, got locked down by reggie Evans 23 feet from the hoop and was bricking everything last night. AND he's incapable of defending the point every bit as much as Jose.
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Calderon looks bad right now because he's either:

    a) playing with a second unit that has no scoring punch and lacks guys he can set up for jumpers (which is what Calderon does best)
    That's where Ross should honestly come in, JL3 gets more playing time, and if Kleiza was here. McGuire, and Anderson aren't shot creators, Ed and Amir aren't your traditional post players. IF anything, Derozan is a better post player than Davis and Johnson.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    I can't believe anyone could think JL3 is better at anything other than chucking than Jose. Doesn't even begin to compute. JL3 can't get anyone else the rock, got locked down by reggie Evans 23 feet from the hoop and was bricking everything last night. AND he's incapable of defending the point every bit as much as Jose.
    6 minutes... He's obviously trying to change the tempo though, he was our best scorer off the bench, yet he didn't play minutes. You have to realize, he's trying to show something in little playing time. I really hope Coach Casey tries to split the minutes between JL3 and Jose. NOT Lowry and Jose. There's a huge drop-off from Lowry to Calderon last few games.

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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    He was our best scorer off the bench in PRESEASON. That doesn't make him a better player than Jose and you are ignoring the fact that at his size he can't guard anyone. When Reggie crowded him off the court and stripped him I was laughing. JL3 will have his moments but he is not a better guard than Jose.

    As a PG yourself surely you can see he was forcing the issue and failing.
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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