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Thread: Rudy Gay vs Josh Smith....whom would your want the Raps to target?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Default Rudy Gay vs Josh Smith....whom would your want the Raps to target?

    I know the large number of fans here at the Republic would want management to target Rudy Gay over Josh Smith in a trade, but here me out. The addition of Gay would make us a better team on the offensive end of the floor, as he is an uber good scoring SF, however the addition of J-Smoove will make the Raptors a top 4 or 5 defensive team whose defense could rival that of Chicago, Boston, Indiana and San Antonio. As well, Smith is no slouch when it comes to putting the ball in the hoop. The idea of him paired next to JV is something I find really interesting. Blocked shots, rebounding, weak side help and a crap load of alley oops.

    I realize a lot of this would come down to whom we would give up and because I think Smith is best served as a power forward I think Andrea would be the centre peice heading to Atlanta. Coincidentally, Atlanta is one of the few destinations where I think that AB could go to which has an excellent defensive minded big to counter his poor rebounding and lack of weak side help.

    My thinking behind going the defensive route (Smith), as opposed to the offensive route (Gay), is that in the playoffs when things slow down and defense becomes critical, Smith in my mind is the more valuable player.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    First off, I don't think either is likely. I doubt that Barg's gets traded any time soon.

    But to answer the question, I'd likely lean towards Josh Smith as well. A 1 for 1 trade of those two would be okay with me, but I wouldn't want to give up much else. Smith is much more of a gamble, a high risk/reward move. Barg's is a big threat on offence though and a match-up nightmare when he is on. I think a team with Smith in his place would struggle to score, especially without a bevy of outside shooters on the wing (move Fields for Jared Dudley would be my prefered trade).

    Gay would solve quite a few holes on the roster, but Smith would be a game changer on defence. My concern with Smith though is that he would think he is the man and start chucking treys again. Gay would be a safer choice, but with less of an impact potential.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Gay. I think his defense is underrated and I'd prefer a pure SF to a tweener. No stats or rationale to backup my claim, all just personal opinion. This would be my dream...

    Ross (since DD just re-signed for big coin, relegating Ross to long-term backup status) & Davis (much improved this season, though I'm personally rather trade away Amir) & Calderon (for contract matching purposes; would love to bring him back at a reduced rate next offseason to backup Lowry for the next 2-3 years) & rights to Zubcic (2012 2nd round pick) & any/all of our 4 upcoming 2nd round picks (2013, 2014, 2014-SAC, 2015) & up to max $3M cash --> Gay & Selby (fight with Lucas for 2nd/3rd string PG) & Ellington (salary dump for Memphis)


    STARTERS
    C: Valanciunas
    PF: Bargnani
    SF: Gay
    SG: DeRozan
    PG: Lowry

    BACKUPS (depending on matchups and big/standard/small ball lineups)
    C: Gray
    C/PF: Amir
    PF/SF: Kleiza
    PF/SF: McGuire
    SF/SG: Fields
    SF/SG: Anderson
    PG: Lucas

    BENCH
    - Acy
    - Ellington ($2M expiring)
    - Selby
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Nov 5th, 2012 at 11:18 AM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    First off, I don't think either is likely. I doubt that Barg's gets traded any time soon.

    But to answer the question, I'd likely lean towards Josh Smith as well. A 1 for 1 trade of those two would be okay with me, but I wouldn't want to give up much else. Smith is much more of a gamble, a high risk/reward move. Barg's is a big threat on offence though and a match-up nightmare when he is on. I think a team with Smith in his place would struggle to score, especially without a bevy of outside shooters on the wing (move Fields for Jared Dudley would be my prefered trade).

    Gay would solve quite a few holes on the roster, but Smith would be a game changer on defence. My concern with Smith though is that he would think he is the man and start chucking treys again. Gay would be a safer choice, but with less of an impact potential.
    Truthfully, it would be amazing to have either player and like you I think acquiring either is highly unlikely, but for the sake of talking basketball and bouncing ideas off other fans of the sport....

    It's really early in the season, but the biggest weakness thus far has been post defense. D. West killed us in the
    4th in the Indana game, and Pekovic (hope I spelled his name right) was dominating JV in the Minnie game. I didn't get to watch the game agains Brooklyn, but the box score shows that Lopez had a big game and I would asume he did most of his damage in the post. Enter Josh Smith whom is an excellend defender, shot blocker and weak side helper. Also to consider is that AB hasn't done much thus far and we haven't had too difficult of a time scoring the ball.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    I prefer Gay, but JSmoove is much more realistically attainable.

    I dont think the Raps have enough assets to entice a trade with Memphis seeing that all the surplus that we have, Memphis already has covered, unless BC decides to give up the Demar Experiment then, maybe.

    Smith will be a free agent and would like to have one last big contract. I maybe mistaken, but cant the Raps offer a 18-20mil contract next season? Definitely have to overpay to get Smith as Atlanta will be able to match. Although i dont think they will.

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    I prefer Smith as a player, but I'd prefer trading for Gay as it would leave the Raps with a better team.

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    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    I don't think I could handle watching Chucky Smith night in and night out. That guy has the worst tendency to take the worst shots. I'd rather stand pat with what we have than try to get him.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Gay.

    He is a true SF/wing which is what the Raps have lacked since Wince hobbled out of town.

    He is also under contract for 3 more years (well, 2 with a ridiculous final year ETO).
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    I prefer Gay, but JSmoove is much more realistically attainable.

    I dont think the Raps have enough assets to entice a trade with Memphis seeing that all the surplus that we have, Memphis already has covered, unless BC decides to give up the Demar Experiment then, maybe.

    Smith will be a free agent and would like to have one last big contract. I maybe mistaken, but cant the Raps offer a 18-20mil contract next season? Definitely have to overpay to get Smith as Atlanta will be able to match. Although i dont think they will.
    Smith is 100% unrestricted. No need to worry about matching.

    Unless amnesty is used, the most the Raps could offer is the MLE.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Gay.

    He is a true SF/wing which is what the Raps have lacked since Wince hobbled out of town.

    He is also under contract for 3 more years (well, 2 with a ridiculous final year ETO).
    Does Derozan/Ross/Fields/Anderson combo platter, combined with Smith instead of Barg's not give us a truly defensive team and the best chance to win? If Smith was in at PF, then I'd slide Anderson in to the starting SF role (we would need more outside shooting with Bargs gone).

    Lowry, Derozan, Anderson, Smith, Valanciunas - pretty formidable starting 5.

    PS - Love your new signature block.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    For the fundamental reason that Gay is able to create his own shot, he's my pick.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Gay all the way

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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    I prefer Smith as a player, but I'd prefer trading for Gay as it would leave the Raps with a better team.


    Actually, I was thinking the exact opposite. Not that Gay wouldn't make us a better team than without him, but that Josh Smith does more for our defense than what Gay does for our offense.

    Imo, Gay makes us a better offensive team, but Smith makes us an elite defensive team.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Does Derozan/Ross/Fields/Anderson combo platter, combined with Smith instead of Barg's not give us a truly defensive team and the best chance to win? If Smith was in at PF, then I'd slide Anderson in to the starting SF role (we would need more outside shooting with Bargs gone).

    Lowry, Derozan, Anderson, Smith, Valanciunas - pretty formidable starting 5.

    PS - Love your new signature block.
    I'm loving the AA love of late but, seriously, he is a really great role/depth player. Every dog has his day and AA is having his right now but I don't think that is consistent production moving forward.

    Here is an idea: jose/ross/davis/2nd round picks for Gay. Then: Bargnani/2nd round pick for Smith.

    Lowry
    DD
    Gay
    Smith
    JV


    Oh. My. God.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I still don't understand all this desire to get one of these guys, especially Gay. A SF with good size and high talent level who can't seem to really make the next step to the elite level, but gets paid like he's already there. When I look at Gay, the only thing that still stands out about him is his size/athleticism. He's got a decent shot, but is hardly lights out, and, frankly, he could also be a much better defender/rebounder with said attributes (I actually think he's quite overrated as a defender). I don't hate him, but no way I want his contract on the Raps, considering I don't think he will improve us that much.

    I think he only would if we could keep the rest of our team intact, which clearly is impossible if we were to get him. It would cost at least 2 proven assets other than Jose's expiring contract, likely Ed/Amir and Demar/Kleiza...then probably one or two throw ins, I'm guessing a young guy (Ross), and maybe a big like Gray, or a cheap asset like Anderson...then also probably one or two 1st round picks...2nd rd picks alone won't cut it for a team like Memphis. Maybe we got a throw-in or two back. That doesn't seem worth it to me.

    Smith makes waaaay more sense to me....Especially if we finally shed Bargs. I've been a big believer in Bargs, but he really does need to be a better rebounder...it's stupid. Smith might be kind of a tweener, and incapable of being the focal point of an offense, but he'll do all the things Bargs doesn't, and if he buys into the team game, could be a great compliment to Lowry and JV in terms of style of play and personality. When I saw the Pacers and Nets games, I couldn't help but wonder how the fuck we'd win a playoff series with Bargs starting and finishing games, and not rebounding for crap.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Does Derozan/Ross/Fields/Anderson combo platter, combined with Smith instead of Barg's not give us a truly defensive team and the best chance to win? If Smith was in at PF, then I'd slide Anderson in to the starting SF role (we would need more outside shooting with Bargs gone).

    Lowry, Derozan, Anderson, Smith, Valanciunas - pretty formidable starting 5.

    PS - Love your new signature block.
    +1

    That lineup can contend against any team in the East (well maybe minus Anderson and sub in T. Ross keeping in mind that they'll need atleast a year to gel), in a seven game series with the exception of Miami and a healthy Chicago. You put Gay in at SF and keep Bargnani at PF and you become suceptible against every defensive minded team in the East (Indiana, Boston etc..), especially in the playoffs when the game slows down and teams start focusing on D.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'm loving the AA love of late but, seriously, he is a really great role/depth player. Every dog has his day and AA is having his right now but I don't think that is consistent production moving forward.

    Here is an idea: jose/ross/davis/2nd round picks for Gay. Then: Bargnani/2nd round pick for Smith.

    Lowry
    DD
    Gay
    Smith
    JV


    Oh. My. God.
    Very much agree that the AA love is higher than what his reasonable value is, my point was more to the fact that while Fields makes more sense to start on the current Raps squad (with Bargs out there for 3 pointers), if we moved Bargs for Smith we'd need a better 3 point shooter at the 3-spot. I don't think Ross is quite there yet but he'd certainly get consideration. I like him coming off the bench more this year anyway as opposed to being thrown to the wolves and havign to guard the Pierce's, Granger's, Deng's of the East.

    If you could somehow pull off both trades, BC would deserve a massive extension and perhaps his own statue.

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    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    with no bench. no thanks.



    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'm loving the AA love of late but, seriously, he is a really great role/depth player. Every dog has his day and AA is having his right now but I don't think that is consistent production moving forward.

    Here is an idea: jose/ross/davis/2nd round picks for Gay. Then: Bargnani/2nd round pick for Smith.

    Lowry
    DD
    Gay
    Smith
    JV


    Oh. My. God.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
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    hughe fan of both but I want the guy we should have drafted #1 over bargs. also, smith does take a lot of questionable shots at times
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'm loving the AA love of late but, seriously, he is a really great role/depth player. Every dog has his day and AA is having his right now but I don't think that is consistent production moving forward.

    Here is an idea: jose/ross/davis/2nd round picks for Gay. Then: Bargnani/2nd round pick for Smith.

    Lowry
    DD
    Gay
    Smith
    JV


    Oh. My. God.
    oh. my. god.

    I want the drugs you are smoking.

    my sarcasm detector is a little off these days, you're joking right?

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