Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

Thread: Grange on Raptors: Raps embrace Lowry, forget Nash (SportsNet.ca)

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,260
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Grange on Raptors: Raps embrace Lowry, forget Nash (SportsNet.ca)

    It seems unfathomable, but it might be true.

    The Toronto Raptors are better off without Steve Nash.

    That's what happens when the consolation prize -- not that anyone around the franchise would call Kyle Lowry that -- is off to the best start a newcomer has had through three games in franchise history.

    The Raptors love Lowry, the point guard of the present and the future they acquired from the Houston Rockets and the one they handed the keys to the franchise when they couldn't give them to Nash as Captain Canada.

    They love everything about him, from his bowling ball with a sneer style to his absurdly team-friendly contract, which still has this year and next remaining at $12 million total.

    If Lowry, 26, continues to perform anything close to the level he has through his first three games, where he's averaged 23.7 points, 7.3 rebounds, 7.0 assists and 3.7 steals while shooting 57.5 per cent from the field, he'll be the most underpaid player in the NBA.

    It's gotten to the point where Raptors president Bryan Colangelo has had to fend off 'what's the catch' queries from fans who can't quite believe the guy who looks like he could be the best all-around point guard in franchise history (and we know, it's only been three games) was acquired for a protected future first-round pick and Gary Forbes of all people.

    "I had a guy come up to me and say 'look, this guy's great, but what are we missing, how we'd get him'?" Colangelo said in advance of the Raptors' quick two-game road swing through Oklahoma City and Dallas which begins Tuesday night. "How do we get this guy for a first-round pick?"

    The answer, in a nutshell, is the Raptors were the beneficiaries of a unique combination of circumstances. They began when Lowry, whose chief flaw may be a bullheadedness that can occasionally tip over into hot-headedness, got into a scrape with Houston Rockets head coach Kevin McHale.
    "Once we got an answer from Steve we were very quickly able to turn our focus to Kyle," said Colangelo. "I knew there was still a deal there (after draft night) but I didn't think we'd pull it off in 24 hours; but it gave them the flexibility and the roster spot they wanted."

    "Sometimes things don't happen for a reason," said Colangelo. "He's a tough guy and he wants nothing to do with 'nice game, good try. He wants to win. We're thrilled to have him."

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2...rison_raptors/

    Good article on Lowry. Worth the click to read the rest.

    Does the bold make anyone else feel warm and fuzzy inside?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,189
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    You had me at "Raps embrace Lowry, forget Nash"

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    504
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Lowry is probably the most suitable pg for Caseys system: tough as nails, great defensively, a leader, competitor, always hustles, he's a dude perfect for the culture change in Toronto. Nash is a great offensive player, but really he's just Jose 2.0 and old.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,119
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    There is no doubt the Raptors are better off with Lowry than Nash. The team was probably better off without Nash regardless of Lowry (although MLSE's wallet may not be) but thats a different topic.

    But were the Raptors really looking for Lowry?

    The answer is yes, but there is no doubt that Nash was the team's first priority. The Raptors could have traded for Lowry on draft night but it would have cost them the No.8 pick they used on Terrence Ross.

    It also would have hampered them in their run for Nash.
    didn't Colangelo say there was no draft day deal available?

    There are alot of things that bother me about Colangelo, but his complete dishonesty is perhaps what irks me the most. I'm not expecting him to release minutes of his daily thought processes... but I'm also not expecting him to lie.

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    2,601
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    There is no doubt the Raptors are better off with Lowry than Nash. The team was probably better off without Nash regardless of Lowry (although MLSE's wallet may not be) but thats a different topic.

    didn't Colangelo say there was no draft day deal available?

    There are alot of things that bother me about Colangelo, but his complete dishonesty is perhaps what irks me the most. I'm not expecting him to release minutes of his daily thought processes... but I'm also not expecting him to lie.
    Perhaps his comment was that there wasn't an offer he was willing to do. A firm #8 pick in a deep draft immediately is more valuable than a vague future pick.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,556
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Didn't Colangelo say there was no draft day deal available?

    There are alot of things that bother me about Colangelo, but his complete dishonesty is perhaps what irks me the most. I'm not expecting him to release minutes of his daily thought processes... but I'm also not expecting him to lie.
    ...? Huh? From the Day-1 that Colangelo has talked about this deal, I've been of the understanding that he nixed a Draft-Day deal to acquire Lowry because it would have cost the #8 pick. Nothings changed.
    In Masai we Trust.

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,099
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    ...? Huh? From the Day-1 that Colangelo has talked about this deal, I've been of the understanding that he nixed a Draft-Day deal to acquire Lowry because it would have cost the #8 pick. Nothings changed.
    Nothing has changed other than the fact that if the rumor for giving up #8 thi syear for Lowry could have been done it probably should have instead of the future 1st rounder.

    If they knew Demar was going to be offered an extension why draft T.Ross? I would have preferred they gave up the pick this year than a future 1st rounder.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,556
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    Nothing has changed other than the fact that if the rumor for giving up #8 thi syear for Lowry could have been done it probably should have instead of the future 1st rounder.
    Disagree. A guarenteed #8 Pick is far more valuable than a Protected Pick for the next 5 years, that could eventually turn out to be nothing more than a Pick in the 20s.
    In Masai we Trust.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,016
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    Nothing has changed other than the fact that if the rumor for giving up #8 thi syear for Lowry could have been done it probably should have instead of the future 1st rounder.

    If they knew Demar was going to be offered an extension why draft T.Ross? I would have preferred they gave up the pick this year than a future 1st rounder.
    "If they knew Demar was going to be offered an extension.."

    Why do you assume they knew on draft night they were going to offer an extension, and that it would be accepted, when that didn't go down until after DD did the work on his body and game over the summer and they had a month of camp with him? Ya think that maybe the progress he showed made for the offer that worked for him, who also had a say in it?

    And why not draft Ross because they had DD? A team doesn't need two quality SGs? Perhaps one coming of the bench for big minutes, a la Ginobli, Harden (with OKC), Allen with Miami, Crawford with LAC, etc......

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    768
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    There is no doubt the Raptors are better off with Lowry than Nash. The team was probably better off without Nash regardless of Lowry (although MLSE's wallet may not be) but thats a different topic.



    didn't Colangelo say there was no draft day deal available?

    There are alot of things that bother me about Colangelo, but his complete dishonesty is perhaps what irks me the most. I'm not expecting him to release minutes of his daily thought processes... but I'm also not expecting him to lie.
    You dont understand how it works obviously. If every GM just came out and said what he was thinking of doing to the fans then we would get terrible deals, draft picks, FA contracts. its like game of poker. you have to hide your cards to be successful.

    they did mention after the trade though. they wanted lowry regardless of nash and they didnt want to give houston this year pick.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Markham
    Posts
    1,535
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    It's still early but I have to admit he has been satisfactory so far.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,119
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    You dont understand how it works obviously. If every GM just came out and said what he was thinking of doing to the fans then we would get terrible deals, draft picks, FA contracts. its like game of poker. you have to hide your cards to be successful.

    they did mention after the trade though. they wanted lowry regardless of nash and they didnt want to give houston this year pick.
    Yep because I obviously said a GM should saying everything he's thinking. Wait a minute:

    I'm not expecting him to release minutes of his daily thought processes... but I'm also not expecting him to lie.
    I didn't say that........

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,957
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Yep because I obviously said a GM should saying everything he's thinking. Wait a minute:



    I didn't say that........
    Perhaps lying is part of the deception/poker face game.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  14. #14
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,556
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Perhaps lying is part of the deception/poker face game.
    Fox Mulder being the King of THAT game, obviously.
    In Masai we Trust.

  15. #15
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Disagree. A guarenteed #8 Pick is far more valuable than a Protected Pick for the next 5 years, that could eventually turn out to be nothing more than a Pick in the 20s.
    The pick they traded away is actually guaranteed lottery, unless they make the playoffs (or completely bottom out) five years in a row.

    Top 3 protected this years draft, top 2 protected the next two years, and top 1 protected the next two years after that.

    But yeah, trading away a possible mid-teen pick (if the Raps barely miss the playoffs, 9th place) for Lowry? Good trade.

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,119
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Perhaps his comment was that there wasn't an offer he was willing to do. A firm #8 pick in a deep draft immediately is more valuable than a vague future pick.
    That may be the case. I just remember alot of discussion about how Toronto should have been trying to move the pick and using a quote from Colangelo about how nothing was available.

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    135
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Pic

    He just needs a Partner in Crime (PIC) to play along with and the team becomes a threat a serious threat.

    JUST one more solid part to add



    PEACE
    It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.


    Muhammad Ali

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,739
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Lowry is the player the raps have NEVER had, including Vince, mighty mouse and Bosh. His "all i care about is winning" attitude that matches his talent is all ive ever wanted in a player and after 3 games he's my favorite all-time rap.
    @jerboat

  19. #19
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,286
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Zewo wrote: View Post
    The pick they traded away is actually guaranteed lottery, unless they make the playoffs (or completely bottom out) five years in a row.

    Top 3 protected this years draft, top 2 protected the next two years, and top 1 protected the next two years after that.

    But yeah, trading away a possible mid-teen pick (if the Raps barely miss the playoffs, 9th place) for Lowry? Good trade.
    I think the other reason sleepz was arguing that trading away last year's #8 pick would have been better than the highly protected pick they did trade, was due to the uncertainty involved. Not only will the Raptors wind up losing a 1st round pick of somesort between 2013-2018, but the conditions attached to the pick also prevent BC from including future 1st round pick(s) in any potential trade.

    Had the 2012 #8 pick been traded instead, BC would be able to trade the team's 2014 & 2016 1st round picks. Given what a combination of the team's most likely trade assets (ie: Davis, Calderon's expiring contract, Kleiza) and multiple draft picks (2 x 1st round picks & 4 x 2nd round picks) could possibly bring back in trade, it's a fair argument. I think the argument becomes even more significant with the extension handed out to DeRozan, now that Ross has been relegated to long-term backup.

    For me, it's not only the unwillingness to trade the 2012 #8 pick for Lowry that irks me, given the DeRozan extension. There were rumors in the aftermath of the Howard trade that said the Raps might have been able to acquire Iguodala from Philly, had they been willing to include the 2012 #8 pick (along with Calderon and Davis). It would have been conceivable for the conditions on the pick included in the Lowry trade to begin in 2014 (instead of 2013), which would have theoretically allowed the Raps to acquire both Lowry AND Iguodala, essentially for Ross & Davis & Calderon & a conditional 1st round pick. How good would that lineup have looked?

    Starters: Valanciunas, Bargnani, Iguodala, DeRozan, Lowry
    Primary Backups: Gray, Amir, Kleiza, Anderson, Fields, Lucas
    Bench: Acy, McGuire

  20. #20
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,556
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Zewo wrote: View Post
    The pick they traded away is actually guaranteed lottery, unless they make the playoffs (or completely bottom out) five years in a row.

    Top 3 protected this years draft, top 2 protected the next two years, and top 1 protected the next two years after that.

    But yeah, trading away a possible mid-teen pick (if the Raps barely miss the playoffs, 9th place) for Lowry? Good trade.
    I'm fully aware of the Protections placed on the Pick; and as you say yourself, it is in fact NOT guaranteed Lottery if we Win for the next few years. So the point of this post, in which you are trying to tell me it IS guaranteed, sort of escapes me ... but anyway ... a #8 Pick IS Guaranteed Lottery no matter how you look at it. The protected pick was NOT.

    BC made the right move in dealing the Future Pick instead of the 2012 #8 pick.
    In Masai we Trust.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •