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Thread: Why are Raps fans so hard on DeMar?

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    Default Why are Raps fans so hard on DeMar?

    So we have been complaining for a couple years now since DD was drafted that he has not lived up to all the hypes of the Young Ones, Young Gunz, Vince Carter comparisons and all that. Now he is playing the best basketball of his young career and already fans are talking or suggesting that he be traded because his value will be at it's highest.

    If he continues to play the way he is, the we got him for a steal at $40 mil. instead of going through free agency and that would be a great move by BC. And give the guy credit for playing his heart out after getting that huge contract. I think it was Casey who said that Demar will play even harder now that he has the contract because he want to prove that he deserved it. BUT If BC didn't resign him and he played well all season, people would say that he played well because it was a contract year and get even more upset if he leaves to go to another team instead of resigning with us. He is in a no win situation with us Raps fans.

    I know everyone is talking about Rudy Gay but we know that if Rudy comes to Town it will be because of the Money not the City or the Team for the Fans. Demar loves the city. He loves the Fans and he Lover the organization and he especially love the team. Instead of showing him that we want him out of town, why not show him that we appreciate him trying his hardest and show him some love.

    Don't forget guys, if you know that people in a specific company don't like you or don't want you there and you have a chance to work there, will you go? I know that I would not. We are better than that.
    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2...erozan_growth/

    Go DeMar Go! Go Raps Go!

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    It's because we know how inconsistent he is, and I'm willing to bet that we will see the old Derozan again (hope I'm wrong!). But yeah, just like the Bargs 13 game sting last year, I'm waiting for another dissapointment.

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    Quote Clipse2001 wrote: View Post
    It's because we know how inconsistent he is, and I'm willing to bet that we will see the old Derozan again (hope I'm wrong!). But yeah, just like the Bargs 13 game sting last year, I'm waiting for another dissapointment.
    wow, that's pretty harsh. What about some encouragements? Just a thought! But I guess if you expect him to fail or disappoint you then you should be upset if he does end up disappointing you right?

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    Raptors Republic Starter Fuchan's Avatar
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    Demar is a baller. Demar, paired with Lowry and JV are going to turn some heads. Everyone is just frustrated with never winning, that they've grown impatient.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
    wow, that's pretty harsh. What about some encouragements? Just a thought! But I guess if you expect him to fail or disappoint you then you should be upset if he does end up disappointing you right?
    because encouragement via the internet is going to change him?

    The reason fans are 'hard' on Derozan, much like they are Bargnani, were Bosh, Rose etc etc. is because of the role they play for the team. If you are going to be treated, played and function as a core long term peice for the franchise you damn well have to play like it.

    What I'm more curious about is why are some fans so easy and willing to make excuses for players when they consistently aren't performing?

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    The recent disdain for DeRozan is quite similar to the hate that's been spewed at Bargnani for the past several seasons. In fact, I see quite a few comparisons between the two of them.


    - both were top-10 draft picks in strong drafts

    - both are inefficient volume scorers, who have been inconsistent in their execution so far in their careers

    - both are below average in key areas typically associated with traditional players at their positions (Bargnani-rebounding, DeRozan-3pt shooting)

    - both have struggled to provide significant, consistent secondary stats (ie: rebounding, assists, steals)

    - both are below average defenders at their position

    - both have been forced to become #1 (or #1a/1b) scoring options for their team, when they have neither the skillset or personality to be a #1 guy

    - both have been marketed as the cornerstone / face of the franchise, which only heaps on even more unjustified expectations that they shouldn't be forced to bear

    - neither has shown significant year-over-year improvements, certainly not with any sustained consistency

    - both were rewarded with ~$10M annual contracts, based more on their age/skill/potential equation, than because of actual sustained performances worthy of ~$10M per year


    I think the animosity being directed at both Bargnani and DeRozan is at least partially undeserved. If anything, I think it speaks volumes to the fact that MLSE/BC/DC have been so effective in fleecing the fanbase (and either directly or indirectly controlling local media, since most of them work for MLSE) over the past few years (they promoted Bosh the same way, when he never should have been a #1 option to be built around).

    The fact of the matter is that the Raptors are not talented enough to compete with the elite teams and never will be, so long as false #1's like Bargnani and DeRozan are being utilized (in both marketing campaigns and on the court) as #1 options. This team needs a serious injection of legitimate, established talent. I firmly believe that BOTH DeRozan and Bargnani can be solid contributors on a good, playoff caliber Raptors team, but only when they are being called on to be #2-4 scoring options.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Nov 14th, 2012 at 05:44 PM.

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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    because encouragement via the internet is going to change him?

    The reason fans are 'hard' on Derozan, much like they are Bargnani, were Bosh, Rose etc etc. is because of the role they play for the team. If you are going to be treated, played and function as a core long term peice for the franchise you damn well have to play like it.

    What I'm more curious about is why are some fans so easy and willing to make excuses for players when they consistently aren't performing?
    For one thing, I am not and have not been one who went easy on players. I have have said that DD, Barg or anyone else playing poorly needs to step it up. However, when a player is trying and putting in the work to improve, then at least give them some sort of credit for it. It's not ok to be lazy and expect to get show love. But when you are tying hard, they should get some sort of love for at least trying their best.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post


    I think the animosity being directed at both Bargnani and DeRozan is at least partially undeserved. If anything, I think it speaks volumes to the fact that MLSE/BC/DC have been so effective in fleecing the fanbase (and either directly or indirectly controlling local media, since most of them work for MLSE) over the past few years (they promoted Bosh the same way, when he never should have been a #1 option to be built around).

    The fact of the matter is that the Raptors are not talented enough to compete with the elite teams and never will be, so long as false #1's like Bargnani and DeRozan are being utilized (in both marketing campaigns and on the court) as #1 options. This team needs a serious injection of legitimate, established talent. I firmly believe that BOTH DeRozan and Bargnani can be solid contributors on a good, playoff caliber Raptors team, but only when they are being called on to be #2-4 scoring options.
    Very true. and that being said, all or most of these complaints should be thrown BCs' way not the players who are actually trying. And I don't think it's fair to put DD and Barg in the same situation. At least DD is trying to put in the work to improve. Not that Bars isn't. Just that we see and hear about DD doing it more and is willing to takes hits from people Barg's size but Barg is not willing to take hits from smaller players. In either case it think it's apples and oranges in that they are two different players in both skills and mindset!

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
    Very true. and that being said, all or most of these complaints should be thrown BCs' way not the players who are actually trying. And I don't think it's fair to put DD and Barg in the same situation. At least DD is trying to put in the work to improve. Not that Bars isn't. Just that we see and hear about DD doing it more and is willing to takes hits from people Barg's size but Barg is not willing to take hits from smaller players. In either case it think it's apples and oranges in that they are two different players in both skills and mindset!
    I agree with you to a point. However, to play devil's advocate, we heard the same rhetoric about Bargnani working hard on his defense and DeRozan working hard on his 3pt shooting last offeason, yet they both still suck at the area of their game they were supposedly working so hard to improve. Frankly, it doesn't really matter how hard a player may or may not be working, if the on-court results never actually reflect that hard work. I believe that both players genuinely care and want to be better but, for whatever reason(s), neither has shown any real sustained improvements. Bargnani is now in his 7th season and DeRozan is in his 4th, so more that likely they are what they are - volume scorers who look better than they are because they've been spoonfed opportunities to score on bad teams.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Afro_Daddy's Avatar
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    stop hating on Demar he's not vince so take what he gives you, he's improved his handles, attacking the rim, steals (still a lil suspect on D) and his 3 point shooting has been better this year so far and carried this team with Lowry so far.. its not like we didnt know we had a hard schedule to begin the season so eaz off my boy
    No Dissrespect...
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    what makes me laugh is when I hear guys talk about trading demar so ross can start lol.
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

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    I can't speak for others, but personally the reason I've been negative about DeMar is that up until this year he was just a really bad basketball player.

    For most players, 3 years is long enough to show that you have enough feel for the game to compete at the NBA level. Demar did not, plain and simple. Forget the lack of skill, it was just how utterly lost he looked out there unless he was finishing in transition.

    This year is a different story. What I'm seeing is a player whose skill level is finally catching up with his athleticism. His handle is the perfect example: he used to get stripped most times when he drove the ball, either due to poor ballhandling or being unable to protect the ball once he picked it up. That's nearly gone this year, seemingly because now when he dribbles he's got his head up and enough confidence in his game that he can react to the defence instead of just trying to bull his way through traffic in a direct line. The result is not only fewer turnovers, but also making better decisions with the ball when he does drive, like kicking it out when the defence collapses instead of forcing up a bad shot. That's an aspect of his game that's been nearly absent until this year.

    We've all heard the old cliche of the 'game slowing down' for a player, reaching that point at which they're just reacting and playing the game instead of overthinking and trying to force the action. DeRozan seems to be reaching that point. He's still got a lot of flaws in his game but he may have reached a point at which his basic basketball skills are good enough that he can now relax and let the game come to him.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie pillowmint's Avatar
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    Minor note.

    - Happy for Demar and the piles of money he's making. Did he deserve it? No. Can he earn it, sure, will is another question. Remember 8 games doesn't make him scott free of having not developed into the player we'd hoped. That being said, I think Lowry is kicking his ass into gear, and that's a good thing so I won't talk ish about him for now.

    - Other minor note, he does not love the city. I have it on good authority that it was long rumored that if we had not offered a substantial amount of money that he was dying to get the hell out of town. Apparently he felt that we were not heading in the right direction and had seen too many players bolting, and mgmt making too many mistakes. When I heard this I was like 'Here's the door, please GTFO!' However, money seems to be the band-aid solution.

    Let's hope he earns every penny, makes us all smile, we make the playoffs, I get to sleep with Kate Upton and my wife is cool with it, in fact so cool she tapes it as a momento and gives me 5 minute segments every year for my birthday...after all as KG said (or was it Adidas) Impossible is Nothing! (which is semi true unless printed on something physical, then it becomes something which is a contradiction of nothing...ahhh screw it.)
    i8theball.com it's a website...about, you know....basketball.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie pillowmint's Avatar
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    BTW - I understand I might get roasted for having 'sources' - Make of it what you want, I'm beyond caring if you don't believe me.


    ...that's not true, I care, but I don't care...ugh, it's complicated.
    i8theball.com it's a website...about, you know....basketball.

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    Quote pillowmint wrote: View Post
    Minor note.

    - Happy for Demar and the piles of money he's making. Did he deserve it? No. Can he earn it, sure, will is another question. Remember 8 games doesn't make him scott free of having not developed into the player we'd hoped. That being said, I think Lowry is kicking his ass into gear, and that's a good thing so I won't talk ish about him for now.

    - Other minor note, he does not love the city. I have it on good authority that it was long rumored that if we had not offered a substantial amount of money that he was dying to get the hell out of town. Apparently he felt that we were not heading in the right direction and had seen too many players bolting, and mgmt making too many mistakes. When I heard this I was like 'Here's the door, please GTFO!' However, money seems to be the band-aid solution.

    Let's hope he earns every penny, makes us all smile, we make the playoffs, I get to sleep with Kate Upton and my wife is cool with it, in fact so cool she tapes it as a momento and gives me 5 minute segments every year for my birthday...after all as KG said (or was it Adidas) Impossible is Nothing! (which is semi true unless printed on something physical, then it becomes something which is a contradiction of nothing...ahhh screw it.)
    Well I have never heard that but in the words of KG "Anything's Possible!" lmao

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    I think Toronto, as a city, should be hard on EVERYBODY. And that includes all pro sports teams and their management. I mean damn, look how loyal the fanbase has been, and what do we have to show for it? Not even playoff appearances. So yeah, we should be hard on management for putting together shit teams or overpaying for mediocre players who don't get us anywhere. We should also be getting on players for underperforming for what is expected of them.

    As for the Raptors, don't we want to win? In order to win we need our top guys to perform to their fullest potential, or at least consistently enough. Bargnani, for 7 years, has disappointed more often than shown flashes of brilliance. DeRozan has been improving year after year, but is it enough? Many don't think so since it's already his 4th year and he's still not where we expected him to be when we drafted him. And many are starting to feel like it's Bargnani 2.0 with all the waiting season after season with little result.

    So here we are, year after year, rebuild after rebuild, waiting for players to maybe reach their potential. For how long must we wait until we get competitive and relevant? You can focus on the positives all you want, but I don't think you can fault the people who do not have any patience left in them after years of watching a scrub team play, or even worse-pay to watch a game only to have to witness half-assed effort and heartless basketball.

    So yeah, positives. I think I'll focus on that once we start winning consistently.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote Afro_Daddy wrote: View Post
    stop hating on Demar he's not vince so take what he gives you, he's improved his handles, attacking the rim, steals (still a lil suspect on D) and his 3 point shooting has been better this year so far and carried this team with Lowry so far.. its not like we didnt know we had a hard schedule to begin the season so eaz off my boy
    His three point shoot is not doing better. Last season he shot 26.1%, this year he's at 25.0. Absolutely atrocious for a shooting guard.

    I am impressed with the way he's playing this season, though I'm not sure if his overall game has improved all that much. The main difference I notice is his strength, and the fact that he drives to the net at will. Still not a great finisher, and still not a very good jump shooter.

    And he's still only getting 2 APG. Bargs gets near that. 2 black holes for the most part.
    Last edited by Mack North; Wed Nov 14th, 2012 at 09:49 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote jlongs wrote: View Post
    I think Toronto, as a city, should be hard on EVERYBODY. And that includes all pro sports teams and their management. I mean damn, look how loyal the fanbase has been, and what do we have to show for it? Not even playoff appearances. So yeah, we should be hard on management for putting together shit teams or overpaying for mediocre players who don't get us anywhere. We should also be getting on players for underperforming for what is expected of them.

    As for the Raptors, don't we want to win? In order to win we need our top guys to perform to their fullest potential, or at least consistently enough. Bargnani, for 7 years, has disappointed more often than shown flashes of brilliance. DeRozan has been improving year after year, but is it enough? Many don't think so since it's already his 4th year and he's still not where we expected him to be when we drafted him. And many are starting to feel like it's Bargnani 2.0 with all the waiting season after season with little result.

    So here we are, year after year, rebuild after rebuild, waiting for players to maybe reach their potential. For how long must we wait until we get competitive and relevant? You can focus on the positives all you want, but I don't think you can fault the people who do not have any patience left in them after years of watching a scrub team play, or even worse-pay to watch a game only to have to witness half-assed effort and heartless basketball.

    So yeah, positives. I think I'll focus on that once we start winning consistently.
    Well said. I agree completely. So frustrated with all my teams losing after they sell us hope all off-season.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Why are Raps fans so hard on DeMar? like most people on this board? i know why.

    You all put Vince Carter like expectations when he was drafted. He didn't live up to your expectations the first 3 years and now you want him gone because he's not Vince Carter.

    DeMar is only 23 years old. Everyone knew when the Raps drafted him that he's going to be a project. To DeMar's credit he has improved every single year. The guy has averaged 17ppg the last 2 years and he was doing it without a jump shot. This year he's jump shot is so much better, every areas of his game is much improved and you're starting to see the results.

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    Quote pillowmint wrote: View Post
    - Other minor note, he does not love the city. I have it on good authority that it was long rumored that if we had not offered a substantial amount of money that he was dying to get the hell out of town.
    So you have a second hand rumour? Even if it is on good authority, you even admitted that it was a rumour, so not exactly a strong support to make the claim "He does not love the city". Plus you said his reasons were management and the poor direction of the team, so that doesn't say anything about the city, so I find it a stretch to use the information you provided to make the claim "he doesn't love the city". If you had said "he doesn't love management" or "he doesn't love the direction of the team" then I'd believe it more.


    Demar biggest problem has been that he hasn't had a good environment to grow in. Who was he supposed to learn from? Bosh on the way out the door? Bargnani? The team has had no credible leader for the young guys to learn from and emulate. Lowry might be that guy (so far so good) and that will help Demar and JV and Ross develop when they see what it takes for a guy to be a high quality NBA player. I guarantee that if Demar was drafted by the Spurs he would be a better player already, learning from Duncan, Parker and Ginobli.

    I was very down on Demar entering the season, but his new post game and better decisions have changed my view on him, which is good, because with that new contract he isn't going anywhere any time soon. Hopefully Demar and Lowry can continue to feed off each other and we can get back to debating whether they are a Top 10 backcourt combo.

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