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Thread: Time to end the Bargnani experiment

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Default Time to end the Bargnani experiment

    Raps need a new PF. They're not going to win with Bargnani. Not picking on him but i've had enough watching this guy. Tonight's game was another great example why. He was nowhere to be found in the 2nd half, he always disappears in crunch time, can't rebound, defensively he's so soft. He can shoot the ball but that's really all he brings to the table. Raps need a PF that can rebound the ball, play tough defence and have some kind of a low post game. You know, a true POWER forward.

    When i look at this Raps team. They have 4 legit talents. DeRozan, Lowry, Valanciunas and Calderon. They need to build around DD, JV and Lowry but they also need to surround them with REAL talents.

    If i'm Colangelo i would call the Utah GM right now if Derrick Favours is available. If not i'd ask if Enes Kanter is available. Both talented POWER forwards but not getting much time because of Jefferson and Millsap. Jefferson and Millsap are both UFA's after this season.

    Jefferson in my opinion is the perfect type of player the Raps need but i can't see the Jazz ever letting him go. But if he becomes a UFA he'll cost a lot of $$$$. Same with Millsap.

    If the Jazz re-sign both guys or let's say just Jefferson. One of Favours or Kanter should be available.
    Last edited by TRex; Mon Nov 12th, 2012 at 11:37 PM.

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    Agreed the guy is just too inconsistent right now he looks out of shape, doesnt box out, run the floor and forcing his shot pretty tired of it. Year after year its something new, BC needs to find someone who wants offence upfront but that will be tough because who is gonna want a liability on defence.

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    Raptors Republic Starter OzRapFan's Avatar
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    LOL another get rid of Bargs thread? I hear you though brother, I hear yah.

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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Raps need a new PF. They're not going to win with Bargnani. Not picking on him but i've had enough watching this guy. Tonight's game was another great example why. He was nowhere to be found in the 2nd half, he always disappears in crunch time, can't rebound, defensively he's so soft. He can shoot the ball but that's really all he brings to the table. Raps need a PF that can rebound the ball, play tough defence and have some kind of a low post game. You know, a true POWER forward.

    When i look at this Raps team. They have 4 legit talents. DeRozan, Lowry, Valanciunas and Calderon. They need to build around DD, JV and Lowry but they also need to surround them with REAL talents.

    If i'm Colangelo i would call the Utah GM right now if Derrick Favours is available. If not i'd ask if Enes Kanter is available. Both talented POWER forwards but not getting much time because of Jefferson and Millsap. Jefferson and Millsap are both UFA's after this season.

    Jefferson in my opinion is the perfect type of player the Raps need but i can't see the Jazz ever letting him go. But if he becomes a UFA he'll cost a lot of $$$$. Same with Millsap.

    If the Jazz re-sign both guys or let's say just Jefferson. One of Favours or Kanter should be available.
    Johnson is not playing to badly. ED seems to be turning the corner. I can't how lost he seemed in overtime. He comes out to help and then gets beat and can't or don't run back to help! Enough is truly enough! ARG!

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    It makes me sad to write this, but I'm now off the Bargs Bandwagon..... Last couple seasons I've held out hope, but he's just not going to put it together, is he.

    If we could steal Favours that would be great, but I don't see it happening. The Jazz could lose BOTH Jefferson and Millsap this offseason. I expect to see one/both of them traded to a contender as the season progresses.

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    Bargnani played horrendously last night, every time the jazz wanted an open and easy look... boom screen roll with calderon and bargnani on defense and it always lead to Bargs showing (softly) and the guy easily beating him off the dribble and both his man and the ball ahndler getting 3 steps on him instantly.. I would easily trade bargnani for a draft pick and some cap filler with an expiring contract. Also their zone D they try to play is just not working, I had so much hope this year but with bargnani as our center were going nowhere.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    amir and ed played really well last night, especially amir. a frontcourt of JV and Amir would have one hell of a motor, thats for sure.
    @jerboat

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    Last year there was hope, maybe he has changed, improved defense, effort, but he has regresed in almost all of categories ... People around the league keep saying basketball is a business, so it's time to cut our losses and move forward

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    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    I'm all for moving him if the deal returns an upgrade just like any player on the roster. Although I didn't think he played well after the 1st it's funny how no one questions the D displayed by Amir and McGuire. When Dre was on Millsap he was having an ordinary night at best. As soon as the Jazz went big and Millsap was guarded by Kleiza and McGuire the game changed and he couldn't be stopped. Jefferson was quite for three and a half quarters and when Amir was gassed he abused him. Scored at will and gobbled up rebounds at an alarming rate. Favors who was covered by Andrea did nothing just like the guy guarding him. I'm curious why Casey didn't let Dre guard Jefferson as Amir clearly couldn't as he was exhausted, over powered and too small.

    Chalk another loss up on Dwayne Casey... I've got him down for 3 games thrown away. I bet if Rick Adelman didn't concede with 6 minutes to go it would be 4. This guy has no idea how to play with a lead or when to call a time out.

    On a positive note Demar has taken his game to another level. I had doubted him for the past few seasons and thought he was limited but he is playing some incredible basketball on the offensive side of the ball.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote RAPresenting wrote: View Post
    I'm all for moving him if the deal returns an upgrade just like any player on the roster. Although I didn't think he played well after the 1st it's funny how no one questions the D displayed by Amir and McGuire. When Dre was on Millsap he was having an ordinary night at best. As soon as the Jazz went big and Millsap was guarded by Kleiza and McGuire the game changed and he couldn't be stopped. Jefferson was quite for three and a half quarters and when Amir was gassed he abused him. Scored at will and gobbled up rebounds at an alarming rate. Favors who was covered by Andrea did nothing just like the guy guarding him. I'm curious why Casey didn't let Dre guard Jefferson as Amir clearly couldn't as he was exhausted, over powered and too small.

    Chalk another loss up on Dwayne Casey... I've got him down for 3 games thrown away. I bet if Rick Adelman didn't concede with 6 minutes to go it would be 4. This guy has no idea how to play with a lead or when to call a time out.

    On a positive note Demar has taken his game to another level. I had doubted him for the past few seasons and thought he was limited but he is playing some incredible basketball on the offensive side of the ball.
    He scored 37 points on 33 shots and missed more shots than Bargnani attempted, plus he had 5 turnovers and that clear-path foul was a backbreaker. Yes he scored, but his +/- was 2nd worst on the team last night (-9), just 1 point better than McGuire. Bargnani was the 2nd best player on the night at +1, one of only 3 players on the positive side (Lucas was +8 and Ross was +2). The team lost and there were several contributing factors... I'm just sick of so many people blaming Bargnani for everything.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    He scored 37 points on 33 shots and missed more shots than Bargnani attempted, plus he had 5 turnovers and that clear-path foul was a backbreaker. Yes he scored, but his +/- was 2nd worst on the team last night (-9), just 1 point better than McGuire. Bargnani was the 2nd best player on the night at +1, one of only 3 players on the positive side (Lucas was +8 and Ross was +2). The team lost and there were several contributing factors... I'm just sick of so many people blaming Bargnani for everything.
    You know +/- is one of the most worthless stats in basketball, Demar played all but 3 minutes of the game (which the team lost by 7) so in the 3minutes demar wasnt in the game the team was +2, thats one shot fyi, would Demar played better if he had some rest, but thats on DC, so dont judge him on +/- stats

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    Raptors Republic Rookie phillythekid's Avatar
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    Quote Vykis wrote: View Post
    You know +/- is one of the most worthless stats in basketball, Demar played all but 3 minutes of the game (which the team lost by 7) so in the 3minutes demar wasnt in the game the team was +2, thats one shot fyi, would Demar played better if he had some rest, but thats on DC, so dont judge him on +/- stats
    Agree completely. Plus his line looks a lot more inefficient than it would have had the game ended after 4 quarters or even 1 OT. The dude played 60 minutes...give him a break if his shots stop falling in the third OT. And several shots at the end of the third OT were shots he had to take...it'd be nice if they'd fall, but we all know that three pointers aren't his game.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Vykis wrote: View Post
    You know +/- is one of the most worthless stats in basketball, Demar played all but 3 minutes of the game (which the team lost by 7) so in the 3minutes demar wasnt in the game the team was +2, thats one shot fyi, would Demar played better if he had some rest, but thats on DC, so dont judge him on +/- stats
    Fair enough about the +/- comment. And I certainly wasn't attempting to blame DeRozan for the loss, but rather just pointing out that they win and lose as a team, rather than pinning responsibility on one player. I was using DeRozan as an example, since this was being hailed by some as a career game, yet his scoring was hugely inefficient and the turnovers and timely fouls hurt us as much as his 37 points helped us.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Fair enough about the +/- comment. And I certainly wasn't attempting to blame DeRozan for the loss, but rather just pointing out that they win and lose as a team, rather than pinning responsibility on one player. I was using DeRozan as an example, since this was being hailed by some as a career game, yet his scoring was hugely inefficient and the turnovers and timely fouls hurt us as much as his 37 points helped us.
    Are you talking about the clear path foul? that was on Kleiza not on DeMar.

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    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Are you talking about the clear path foul? that was on Kleiza not on DeMar.
    Your right it was Kleiza who never should have been in the game at that point...

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Are you talking about the clear path foul? that was on Kleiza not on DeMar.
    You're right, but it was a bad turnover by DeRozan that resulted in the clear-path foul being called. I was mentioning that in addition to having an inefficient scoring night (17/33 and 1/6 3pt), DeRozan also committed quite a few costly turnovers. I'm not blaming him for the loss, I think teams win or lose as teams.

    The frustration for me is that if Bargnani had put up the stats that DeRozan did last night, most posters on RR would be ripping him a new one for being an inefficient one-dimensional volume scorer who disappeared in OT, whereas people are praising DeRozan for having a career game. I don't care who the player is, it just irks me when one player is continually blamed for everything going bad for a team (and I'm not referring to you TRex, I'm just replying to your post). We could easily point out several plays by just about every player, in addition to many decisions by coaching staff, which all culminated in the loss last night.

    For the record, I see definite improvement in DeRozan this year, but scoring 37 points on 33 shots in 60 minutes (essentially almost 2 games worth of playing time) is far from 'star quality'. He's heading in the right direction and I'm hopeful he'll get there, but he still has a loooooong way to go before I would say he's rightfully earned that fat new contract.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    You're right, but it was a bad turnover by DeRozan that resulted in the clear-path foul being called. I was mentioning that in addition to having an inefficient scoring night (17/33 and 1/6 3pt), DeRozan also committed quite a few costly turnovers. I'm not blaming him for the loss, I think teams win or lose as teams.

    The frustration for me is that if Bargnani had put up the stats that DeRozan did last night, most posters on RR would be ripping him a new one for being an inefficient one-dimensional volume scorer who disappeared in OT, whereas people are praising DeRozan for having a career game. I don't care who the player is, it just irks me when one player is continually blamed for everything going bad for a team (and I'm not referring to you TRex, I'm just replying to your post). We could easily point out several plays by just about every player, in addition to many decisions by coaching staff, which all culminated in the loss last night.

    For the record, I see definite improvement in DeRozan this year, but scoring 37 points on 33 shots in 60 minutes (essentially almost 2 games worth of playing time) is far from 'star quality'. He's heading in the right direction and I'm hopeful he'll get there, but he still has a loooooong way to go before I would say he's rightfully earned that fat new contract.
    The difference is DeMar also managed to get 8 rebounds and 6 assists.

    Sadly, Bargnani sets the tone for the team it seems - especially when he does not play. I just can't stop thinking about where the Raps would be with a PF such as Millsap in his place. For all the talk of what the Raptors are attempting to do and the characteristics the team is trying to embody, I don't see how Bargnani meets that criteria.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    You're right, but it was a bad turnover by DeRozan that resulted in the clear-path foul being called. I was mentioning that in addition to having an inefficient scoring night (17/33 and 1/6 3pt), DeRozan also committed quite a few costly turnovers. I'm not blaming him for the loss, I think teams win or lose as teams.

    The frustration for me is that if Bargnani had put up the stats that DeRozan did last night, most posters on RR would be ripping him a new one for being an inefficient one-dimensional volume scorer who disappeared in OT, whereas people are praising DeRozan for having a career game. I don't care who the player is, it just irks me when one player is continually blamed for everything going bad for a team (and I'm not referring to you TRex, I'm just replying to your post). We could easily point out several plays by just about every player, in addition to many decisions by coaching staff, which all culminated in the loss last night.

    For the record, I see definite improvement in DeRozan this year, but scoring 37 points on 33 shots in 60 minutes (essentially almost 2 games worth of playing time) is far from 'star quality'. He's heading in the right direction and I'm hopeful he'll get there, but he still has a loooooong way to go before I would say he's rightfully earned that fat new contract.
    This is the third time Ive replied to your posts, and you dont seem to get it.

    If Bargs did 37 points on 49% shooting with 8rebounds 6 assists and 2 steals we would LOVE him to the highest degree.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    You're right, but it was a bad turnover by DeRozan that resulted in the clear-path foul being called. I was mentioning that in addition to having an inefficient scoring night (17/33 and 1/6 3pt), DeRozan also committed quite a few costly turnovers. I'm not blaming him for the loss, I think teams win or lose as teams.

    The frustration for me is that if Bargnani had put up the stats that DeRozan did last night, most posters on RR would be ripping him a new one for being an inefficient one-dimensional volume scorer who disappeared in OT, whereas people are praising DeRozan for having a career game. I don't care who the player is, it just irks me when one player is continually blamed for everything going bad for a team (and I'm not referring to you TRex, I'm just replying to your post). We could easily point out several plays by just about every player, in addition to many decisions by coaching staff, which all culminated in the loss last night.

    For the record, I see definite improvement in DeRozan this year, but scoring 37 points on 33 shots in 60 minutes (essentially almost 2 games worth of playing time) is far from 'star quality'. He's heading in the right direction and I'm hopeful he'll get there, but he still has a loooooong way to go before I would say he's rightfully earned that fat new contract.
    You need to understand that he played SIXTY MINUTES! playing 60 mins in the nba is insanely tiring and in regulation he was shooting way above 50% and he was outplaying bargnani is every aspect of the game. They Counted on him in OT and he produced but by the Third OT you could tell we was gassed so he threw up bricks. This loss was not his fault in the slightest bit, he was giving it 200% on the court you could tell we wanted to win very badly. Bargnani on the other hand was just standing there half the time on D and his offense was horrendous in OT. Now i know why they call him Il Mago, he disappears in crunch time.

  20. #20
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    At least move him to the bench as the first guy off the bench... He can go in and be the instant offence which would be his best role in the NBA... My most disappointment this year has been Casey so far!!!!

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