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Thread: The case for DeRozan being the number 1 option over Bargnani

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    Raptors Republic Rookie phillythekid's Avatar
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    Default The case for DeRozan being the number 1 option over Bargnani

    Inspired by his career night (albeit in 60 minutes of playing time in a losing effort), here's a look at how DeMar and Andrea's offensive efficiency stats compare so far this season:

    DeRozan: PER: 17.8, TS%: .526, USG%: 25.2, Offensive Rating: 108, Offensive Win Shares: 0.6
    Bargnani: PER: 14.3, TS%: .482, USG%: 25.2, Offensive Rating: 99, Offensive Win Shares: 0.2

    We see that while their offensive usage is identical, DeMar has a higher true shooting percentage, a higher player efficiency rating, a higher offensive rating, and more win shares.

    It is important to note that in each of his first three seasons, DeMar's PER was below 15, the league average, so like most of you I'm hoping that his solid play continues and his PER stays around where it is now.

    More interesting stats in which DeRozan is outperforming Bargnani so far this season:
    TOV%: DeRozan: 7.4, Bargnani: 8.0
    AST%: DeRozan: 12.0, Bargnani: 8.0
    The stats above show what is very obvious from watching the games so far this year: While the ball doesn't exactly flow through either player, Bargnani is more likely to not pass and turn the ball over.

    Also interesting to note that while Bargnani's AST% has fluctuated over his career, DeRozan's has increased steadily (a number to attach to the observation that DeRozan is really improving his play making, especially out of the post). DeMar has also continued his trend of increasing his FTA/game, but I'm getting carried away now....

    Overall, (in a relatively small sample size, I know) DeRozan is outperforming Bargnani in almost every category, and while Bargnani continues to be an inconsistent enigma, DeRozan's numbers suggest steady improvement.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    It's a role I'd want to ease him into. With such a small sample size who's to say Demar doesn't go back to his old ways? I say we gradually increase his usage rate and if he handles it well we reward him with the first option. Personally I'd like to see almost everyone's usage not named bargnani go up and make Bargnani(gradually) a 4th option behind Demar Lowry JV, maybe 5th if we can get some sense into our other wings.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Ideally both Bargnani and DeRozan would be no higher than a #2 scoring option on a legitimate playoff team. Neither of them has proven to be efficient with their scoring, but with diminished expectations placed on #2 or #3 scoring options, I think they could both thrive.

    Based on the # shots taken last night, as so far this year, I think it's safe to say that they are already scoring option #1a and #1b, rather than #1 and #2. When healthy, I think Lowry is essentially a scoring option #1c or #2, slightly behind both Bargnani and DeRozan.

    What this team desperately needs is a legitimate, established starting SF who can come in and become the true #1 scoring option, who is also a capable 3pt shooter. That would bump Bargnani/DeRozan/Lowry into the #2-4 scoring options, with Valanciunas free to be the garbage man down low.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Nov 13th, 2012 at 04:46 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I personally feel that it should come down to matchups to see who should have a higher usage. Probably not going to happen, but if the opposing team has a weaker forward than the offense should run through Bargnani, and if the opposing team has a weaker wing player, then the offense should run through DeRozan.

    So I can see why DeMar had a good game against Utah who don't have strong wings. I can also see why Bargnani had a good game against Philly who was using Young for the most part on Bargnani.

    I consider West a weaker player than George.. so I would hope that Bargnani's usage goes up tonight.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I personally feel that it should come down to matchups to see who should have a higher usage. Probably not going to happen, but if the opposing team has a weaker forward than the offense should run through Bargnani, and if the opposing team has a weaker wing player, then the offense should run through DeRozan.

    So I can see why DeMar had a good game against Utah who don't have strong wings. I can also see why Bargnani had a good game against Philly who was using Young for the most part on Bargnani.

    I consider West a weaker player than George.. so I would hope that Bargnani's usage goes up tonight.
    Lol not a very good matchup for either. But George has been playing sf with granger out and green at sg a lot. Hopefull that means him and Demar won't be guarding each other.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Kyle Lowry should be numero uno, Demar should be given reigns on the offensive possession every now and then, and Bargs needs to be the complementary shooter when Lowry and Demar fail at a play.

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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Kyle Lowry should be numero uno, Demar should be given reigns on the offensive possession every now and then, and Bargs needs to be the complementary shooter when Lowry and Demar fail at a play.
    I Second that! A+

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Bargnani is shit trade him

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    If you ask me this question a year ago i would say Bargnani should be the #1 option. No question. But DeMar has improved so much this year to the point where he and Lowry should be the team's #1 option.

    Raps should mainly use Bargnani as a spot up shooter. Think of Toni Kukoc with the Bulls in the 90's.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    If you ask me this question a year ago i would say Bargnani should be the #1 option. No question. But DeMar has improved so much this year to the point where he and Lowry should be the team's #1 option.

    Raps should mainly use Bargnani as a spot up shooter. Think of Toni Kukoc with the Bulls in the 90's.
    I really hope you're not comparing DeRozan & Fields to Jordan & Pippen... lol

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I really hope you're not comparing DeRozan & Fields to Jordan & Pippen... lol
    lol no. I'm mainly talkin about Bargnani.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    I think for the time being you keep letting whichever one is playing better on the night be the #1 option. Eventually Demar may get to the point where we want the ball in his hands regardless of how he is playing, but right now all we have is a few games worth of data. I think in the long run though, especially given how he's played lately, Demar is going to become our franchise shooting guard.

    Toronto's big three in 2 years: Lowry, Demar, and Val and it will be a scary team to play against. Pick and roll with Val rolling to the rim Lowry dribbling to the elbow while Derozen curls to the opposite elbow off a low screen is going to be damn hard to cover. Add in a good three point shooter in the corner and a four who can crash the glass after setting Demar's screen (Amir maybe) and you've got trouble.

    Bargnani, as nice as the idea of an offense that runs through the mismatches he can create is, doesn't seem to be consistant enough to be the go to guy on a contender.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    let Ed be your 4!!! He is looking to be a REALLY solid pro.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    and ross as your 3pt shooter

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    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    let Ed be your 4!!! He is looking to be a REALLY solid pro.
    What have you been watching?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    If you ask me this question a year ago i would say Bargnani should be the #1 option. No question. But DeMar has improved so much this year to the point where he and Lowry should be the team's #1 option.

    Raps should mainly use Bargnani as a spot up shooter. Think of Toni Kukoc with the Bulls in the 90's.
    I'm going to assume you didn't watch alot of Toni Kukoc when he was with the Bulls.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    let Ed be your 4!!! He is looking to be a REALLY solid pro.
    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    and ross as your 3pt shooter
    Not sure if sarcasm, but that would be ideal. I actually really like Davis, he is a very good rebounder and if he got a chance to develop that post game he could be dangerous off the low block. He needs minutes more than anything which could be an issue unless someone gets hurt. Ross has great form on his jumper so that is also a possibility. Ah yes ridiculous optimism, how I've missed you.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    when demar has a string of bad games his contract will come up again here and how he is only a sixth man. lots of rap fans need someone to hate on their team every year. demar has started off well this season so he is awesome. bargs has faltered so he is the worst player ever.

    we don't have a number one option. we have some players who can get the ball in the hoop when playing well who are prone to cold streaks. we need to ride the hot hand and when someone isn't producing offensively and isn't pulling their weight defensively they need to sit

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    What have you been watching?
    he grabs more boards in one game then bargnani can grab in a month. His D is also better, Bargs can shove his jumpshot up his ass.

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Starter T.Dot's Avatar
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    oh stop getting your panties in a bunch, it's still early. as miekenstien said ride the hot hand....but I still think bargnani is needed on the floor even though he's not scoring because he spaces the floor and makes it easier for other players to get looks

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