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Thread: Sam Mitchell was right

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Default Sam Mitchell was right

    to bench Bargs when he did not put out effort. He should have learned back then before he earned his 50 mil contract.

    Colangelo fired him for taking a stand and we have had to suffer for years since.

    I can watch Calderon get destroyed by tier 3 guards like Darren Collison because he is playing his ass off ...but when I see the listless effort of 3-point-line-dwelling bargsofti I have to change the channel... it is unwatchable.


    slow starts?
    can't finish games?
    look at video of bargsofti and you have your answer - best hope is to turn him in to 6th man on a short leash - better yet trade him for a jug of Gatoraid and some medical tape.
    Last edited by charlz; Wed Nov 14th, 2012 at 01:17 PM.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    ...but when I see the listless effort of 3-point-line-dwelling bargsofti I have to change the chanel...
    It's important to remember that too much perfume is just as bad as no perfume, you don't want to overpower the senses. Think of perfume as salt on a meal, too little is bland and too much is off-putting, but just the right amount and you'll have them salivating

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote letter n wrote: View Post
    it's important to remember that too much perfume is just as bad as no perfume, you don't want to overpower the senses. Think of perfume as salt on a meal, too little is bland and too much is off-putting, but just the right amount and you'll have them salivating
    wtf?
    F*ck Brooklyn

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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    wtf?
    change the chanel...
    Chanel is a perfume, channel is what charlz is turning so he doesn't gouge out his eyes watching AB
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    It's important to remember that too much perfume is just as bad as no perfume, you don't want to overpower the senses. Think of perfume as salt on a meal, too little is bland and too much is off-putting, but just the right amount and you'll have them salivating
    Best post ever!!!

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    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    The only thing Sam Mitchell has was his suits and the ability to interview well to get the job. Everyone loves Smitch but putting me as far away from those types as possible. Typical Raptor fans looking at the glory days but forgetting what the roster was like. Back to back playoffs weren't from his coaching prowess rather a deep roster with savvy veterans and the emergence of CB4.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote RAPresenting wrote: View Post
    The only thing Sam Mitchell has was his suits and the ability to interview well to get the job. Everyone loves Smitch but putting me as far away from those types as possible. Typical Raptor fans looking at the glory days but forgetting what the roster was like. Back to back playoffs weren't from his coaching prowess rather a deep roster with savvy veterans and the emergence of CB4.
    Those early BC era Sam Mitchell coached teams were comparetively as young as this team. The make up of those teams in general are eeriely similar to this squad aswell (as has the start to this season been).

    Those teams ended up with Defense Ratings very close to this team now, but a much better offensive rating.

    Sam was a perfectly capable coach, who was given 2 mandates from above that didn't run parrallel - win games and play Bargnani. I just hope Casey has the balls to do what Sam did, and the clout to not get fired if he does.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote RAPresenting wrote: View Post
    The only thing Sam Mitchell has was his suits and the ability to interview well to get the job. Everyone loves Smitch but putting me as far away from those types as possible. Typical Raptor fans looking at the glory days but forgetting what the roster was like. Back to back playoffs weren't from his coaching prowess rather a deep roster with savvy veterans and the emergence of CB4.
    This is crazy talk. How many coaches failed to miss the playoffs with a fully "emerged" young big man or a deep roster of savvy veterans? To simply discount a person's coaching ability because he had a good team is stupid. By that logic we shouldn't have signed Dwane Casey then, because he had the use of a DPOY candidate (Chandler) with Dallas, and Dirk Nowitzki?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    the thing i liked about smitch is he never held back anything...if u werent performing he let u know it..didnt matter if you were a d league scrub or 5 time all-star.

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    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Those early BC era Sam Mitchell coached teams were comparetively as young as this team. The make up of those teams in general are eeriely similar to this squad aswell (as has the start to this season been).

    Those teams ended up with Defense Ratings very close to this team now, but a much better offensive rating.

    Sam was a perfectly capable coach, who was given 2 mandates from above that didn't run parrallel - win games and play Bargnani. I just hope Casey has the balls to do what Sam did, and the clout to not get fired if he does.
    They were competitive yes no question but the two years with success the only young players who were seeing time were Bosh and Dre. TJ and Jose were a two headed monster and they had solid vets like Parker, Garbo and Mo pet on the wing. Rasho played solid minutes for them as well. The offense was better because they had shooters and the two point guards who were playing well and healthy. I think it was more the roster then Sams coaching.

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    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    This is crazy talk. How many coaches failed to miss the playoffs with a fully "emerged" young big man or a deep roster of savvy veterans? To simply discount a person's coaching ability because he had a good team is stupid. By that logic we shouldn't have signed Dwane Casey then, because he had the use of a DPOY candidate (Chandler) with Dallas, and Dirk Nowitzki?
    He didn't even do much coaching and other then Bosh is player development was piss poor. The offense looked great because the player who were all high basketball IQ which didn't come from him. I'm discounting his coaching ability because of his player development, plays drawn up and timing of time outs called. Mitchell was a great personality but don't you think there is a reaosn he hasn't landed a job since? The worst thing that happened to the Raptors was him winning coach of the year as BC's hands were tied and had to give him an extention. The turn around in the record in the year he won COY was because he was handed over a completely different roster with players who knew how to play and was in the worst devision in basketball nothig more. Crazy talk is thinking he was so great lol he's so great that he can't get a job...

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote RAPresenting wrote: View Post
    They were competitive yes no question but the two years with success the only young players who were seeing time were Bosh and Dre. TJ and Jose were a two headed monster and they had solid vets like Parker, Garbo and Mo pet on the wing. Rasho played solid minutes for them as well. The offense was better because they had shooters and the two point guards who were playing well and healthy. I think it was more the roster then Sams coaching.
    I completely agree the roster had a more significant impact on the team than coaching.... but no one is calling him Phil Jackson or Jerry Sloan either. Like I said he was perfectly capable. And just like the teams rise to one of its best seasons in history wasn't due to Sam, its fall from grace wasn't due to Sam either. Rather the teams problems were its weakening roster (injuries, trades, replacing FAs). Sam just became the scape goat. He was doing exactly what he had been doing - trying to scratch out wins on a mediocre team that was playing in an increasing improving conference

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    to bench Bargs when he did not put out effort. He should have learned back then before he earned his 50 mil contract.
    Colangelo fired him for taking a stand and we have had to suffer for years since.

    I can watch Calderon get destroyed by tier 3 guards like Darren Collison because he is playing his ass off ...but when I see the listless effort of 3-point-line-dwelling bargsofti I have to change the chanel... it is unwatchable.


    slow starts?
    can't finish games?
    look at video of bargsofti and you have your answer - best hope is to turn him in to 6th man on a short leash - better yet trade him for a jug of Gatoraid and some medical tape.
    On the contrary, i think it actually screwed us up. If Sam Mitchell was sane enough to think that this guy was drafted 1st overall and would assumingly carry the franchise one day, then instead of benching him he shouldve given him more minutes and at the same time taught him about putting in 200% effort and guiding him to play harder and with more passion. The problem is, he probably put forth first his bloated ego thinking no rookie should insubordinate him.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    the thing i liked about smitch is he never held back anything...if u werent performing he let u know it..didnt matter if you were a d league scrub or 5 time all-star.
    Im fine with this, he should, as a coach, get in his player's faces and tell them to smarten up. But you dont bench them. Specially not a #1 pick.

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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    to bench Bargs when he did not put out effort. He should have learned back then before he earned his 50 mil contract.
    Colangelo fired him for taking a stand and we have had to suffer for years since.

    I can watch Calderon get destroyed by tier 3 guards like Darren Collison because he is playing his ass off ...but when I see the listless effort of 3-point-line-dwelling bargsofti I have to change the chanel... it is unwatchable.


    slow starts?
    can't finish games?
    look at video of bargsofti and you have your answer - best hope is to turn him in to 6th man on a short leash - better yet trade him for a jug of Gatoraid and some medical tape.
    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    the thing i liked about smitch is he never held back anything...if u werent performing he let u know it..didnt matter if you were a d league scrub or 5 time all-star.
    Mitchell would have been a fine employee in a Ford factory about 100 years ago; great assembly line worker.

    Churchill was right to take a stand against Hitler, good coaches don't take a 'stand' against their own player.

    Good coaches don't treat all their players the same way. A good coach finds the right balance between development and the result on any given night. A good coach figures out what drives each and every player, a good coach prepares players for the roles they need to play on the team, he holds them accountable Šnd gives them confidence. The way they go about this isn't the same for player A as it is for player B because player A isn't the same as player B.

    I've always liked the teams of Jackson during the triple championship with the Lakers. Every player on that team knew his role and performed when called upon, even if it was every tenth game for 5 minutes. Jackson groomed his teams to take responsibilty on the floor often by not calling a time-out in the regular season when it all went wrong and the opponent went on a run; often he called a time-out and let the players talk amongst themselves while he and his coaching staff were exchanging stories about their kids in their own hurdle. I suspect (but don't know) that between games he talked to players about the choices they made, to help them make better choices the next time. This cost him some games during the regular season, but it sure as hell helped develop the team.

    A coach who coaches by default is just a crappy coach. During Mitchell's tenure as a head coach he hasn't done anything to help Bargnani become a better player just as Triano hasn't done anything to make anyone a better player (at least I can't think of anyone, certainly not DeRozan or Bargnani). Both didn't have any clue how to coach each and every player to get more out of himself.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    It's important to remember that too much perfume is just as bad as no perfume, you don't want to overpower the senses. Think of perfume as salt on a meal, too little is bland and too much is off-putting, but just the right amount and you'll have them salivating
    "cocaine is a helluva drug".. Rick James
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    Im fine with this, he should, as a coach, get in his player's faces and tell them to smarten up. But you dont bench them. Specially not a #1 pick.
    ok I see your argument because he is an asset, but if he is not listening and hurting the team... what was smitch to do?
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I completely agree the roster had a more significant impact on the team than coaching.... but no one is calling him Phil Jackson or Jerry Sloan either. Like I said he was perfectly capable. And just like the teams rise to one of its best seasons in history wasn't due to Sam, its fall from grace wasn't due to Sam either. Rather the teams problems were its weakening roster (injuries, trades, replacing FAs). Sam just became the scape goat. He was doing exactly what he had been doing - trying to scratch out wins on a mediocre team that was playing in an increasing improving conference
    Perhaps I'm coming across to negativity towards Sam but far too often he is glorified when it's not warranted. I liked his personality and believe he's a guy who would make a good assistant but a head coaching position on a team with aspirations of regular trips to the playoffs and then to win while there is beyond him.

    Unfortunately because the franchise has done so poorly we tend to overvalue mediocre achievements I believe. There was some success when Mitchell was at the helm but I think he gets far to much credit for it. Maybe I'm wrong just my take.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    ok I see your argument because he is an asset, but if he is not listening and hurting the team... what was smitch to do?
    I guess we all dont know the full story so we can only speculate. But do you really think, knowing Bargnani's demeanor now, and looking back when he was a rookie, no NBA experience, no American College experience, that he would pout and think so highly of himself not to follow an NBA coach? I doubt it. Bargnani had mistakes, im pretty sure, but i dont think he became that big of a headache for Mitchell enough to bench him.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote RAPresenting wrote: View Post
    Perhaps I'm coming across to negativity towards Sam but far too often he is glorified when it's not warranted. I liked his personality and believe he's a guy who would make a good assistant but a head coaching position on a team with aspirations of regular trips to the playoffs and then to win while there is beyond him.

    Unfortunately because the franchise has done so poorly we tend to overvalue mediocre achievements I believe. There was some success when Mitchell was at the helm but I think he gets far to much credit for it. Maybe I'm wrong just my take.
    I actually think he was trying to be different, sort of a rebel coach, trying to put his niche out there. In the beginning his tactics were kinda fun to watch but later on it just became annoying. everytime he faced the media he seemed annoyed at all the questions, turning the questioning into banter, then he refused to do the half time segments. he always had a smirk on his face like nobody else knew basketball except him. i think he was glorified way to early, and his head swelled. if he was really that good, how come he's not coaching anymore?

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