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Thread: DeMar DeRozan is a man on fire. Now lets talk trades.

  1. #21
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Not sure if I agree there. George is superior in almost every facet of the game, except attacking/getting to the line. George is also younger/less experienced.
    But "attacking/getting to the line" is a rather important facet of an NBA wing, yes? Especially when you look at 6.4 FTA avg. vs 2.0 this year, and even last year's 5.3 vs 2.8. A disparity already, with DD on the rise, and George on the decline.

    Also George's shooting %, another facet you've spoken of often to decry DD's skills, has been well below DDs for 1st, 2nd and 3rd years. So that's two very important facets that DD is better at, and increasing the margin, even while playing on a team with less talent, putting more opposition attention on him.

    Younger? Yes, a whole 9 months. Good point.
    Last edited by p00ka; Wed Nov 14th, 2012 at 04:01 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Very ture, but he's done a great job of taking advantage of smaller SG's. He loses that advantage at SF.
    I don't even think it matters with the there size now with DeMar. I saw him post up Paul George multiple last game and Gordon Haywood(6'8"). Think of all his big games this and who was guarding him. Joe Johnson 6'7", Brandon Roy 6'6", Evan Turner 6'7" I can only think of two SF(Melo and Bron)in the east that he would have a problem posting up. If he moves to the SF he gains a quickness advantage that he did have before with guards.

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Not sure if I agree there. George is superior in almost every facet of the game, except attacking/getting to the line. George is also younger/less experienced.
    aside from defense & supposed to be shooting where George is struggling right now.. in the games I saw George I haven't seen that superiority over DD right now. I think George will be a superior role player in the end w/ all the other good things he can do. he's good at a number of thing but nothing great so far. DD already has that attacking to the rim mentality, FT attempts, & post ups & DD is only less than a year older

  4. #24
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    But "attacking/getting to the line" is a rather important facet of an NBA wing, yes? Especially when you look at 6.4 FTA avg. vs 2.0 this year, and even last year's 5.3 vs 2.8. A disparity already, with DD on the rise, and George on the decline.

    Also George's shooting %, another facet you've spoken of often to decry DD's skills, has been well below DDs for 1st, 2nd and 3rd years. So that's two very important facets that DD is better at, and increasing the margin, even while playing on a team with less talent, putting more opposition attention on him.

    Younger? Yes, a whole 9 months. Good point.
    yeah Good points.. I dont know about P George but DD's work ethic & attitude is also a plus

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I don't even think it matters with the there size now with DeMar. I saw him post up Paul George multiple last game and Gordon Haywood(6'8"). Think of all his big games this and who was guarding him. Joe Johnson 6'7", Brandon Roy 6'6", Evan Turner 6'7" I can only think of two SF(Melo and Bron)in the east that he would have a problem posting up. If he moves to the SF he gains a quickness advantage that he did have before with guards.
    he was abusing foye (smaller) & hayward(bigger) jazz haved to put millsap to eliminate his post ups.. this year is the first time DD is showing his post moves & he will just get better in the next years w/ it.. reading defensive adjustments & double teams

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    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    I'm feeling pretty comfortable with Derozan's ability to continue this play. Why? Because he's not doing anything extraordinary, but he's doing all the ordinary things extraordinarily well. It's not like he's on a hot shooting streak or anything like that. He's making the smart, simple plays each time on the court, which is something that I believe he'll keep doing. Also, when the whistles finally start blowing he's going to be a really dangerous player.

    The main things for him to keep working on are defence (as always) and shooting from range.
    Last edited by KHD; Wed Nov 14th, 2012 at 04:27 PM.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    But "attacking/getting to the line" is a rather important facet of an NBA wing, yes? Especially when you look at 6.4 FTA avg. vs 2.0 this year, and even last year's 5.3 vs 2.8. A disparity already, with DD on the rise, and George on the decline.

    Also George's shooting %, another facet you've spoken of often to decry DD's skills, has been well below DDs for 1st, 2nd and 3rd years. So that's two very important facets that DD is better at, and increasing the margin, even while playing on a team with less talent, putting more opposition attention on him.

    Younger? Yes, a whole 9 months. Good point.
    I acknowledged free throw attempts. Not sure why you felt obliged to raise the point I already made.

    As for shooting ability, don't confuse dunks and layups with "shooting". Both players are shooting approx. 38% outside of 3 feet.

    Now, care to comment on their defense, rebounding, and passing ability?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I acknowledged free throw attempts. Not sure why you felt obliged to raise the point I already made.

    As for shooting ability, don't confuse dunks and layups with "shooting". Both players are shooting approx. 38% outside of 3 feet.

    Now, care to comment on their defense, rebounding, and passing ability?
    Boy oh boy you guys are crazy!! lol Trade Demar? Are you Fuggin Crazy?? He's our best baller besides Lowry right now......no way would i take Paul George (who plays on a better team) over DD.....I like DD's contract and if he plays up to his potential will be a steal that will still give us some flexibility ..... Rudy Gay makes like 16-18 mil over the next couple years??? NO THANK YOU!!!

    I WOULD NOT TRADE DEMAR DEROZAN - I REPEAT I WOULD NOT TRADE DEMAR!!! THREAD CLOSED!! LMAO

    On another note.....check out this article Tim Chisholm wrote today. What are your thoughts?

    here's the link in case your interested in seeing comments - http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=409482

    It's time for the Raptors to trade Andrea Bargnani - Tim Chishom

    Thirteen games.

    For most any recent Raptors fan, you can say "thirteen games" and they immediately know what you're talking about. It's been referred to incessantly for almost a year, as a reason for hope and optimism and as a justification for six long years of meager returns.

    However, it now looks like those thirteen games will serve as an indictment rather than an exoneration. Those thirteen games that should have pushed people out of their cynicism will now only sink people further into it. In typical Raptors fashion, those thirteen games that should have been the start of what is, instead represent yet another case of what could have been but isn't.

    That's why it's time to trade Andrea Bargnani.

    For thirteen games to start last season, Bargnani finally showed what he can be when he puts it all together. He reached the apex of his personal mountain, the pinnacle of his potential and showed the basketball world what had so enraptured Bryan Colangelo when he drafted Bargnani first overall in 2006. He was a terror on offence, he was committed on defence and he was a true on-court leader for the first time in his NBA career.

    He was also apparently incapable of sustaining that level of production.

    Bargnani was famously injured after thirteen games last season and played just 18 more the rest of the way, averaging 16.1 ppg on .403 shooting and just 5.1 rpg before being shut down for good with a bothersome calf injury being cited as the reason for Bargnani's downturn in production.

    Well, through eight games this season Bargnani is averaging 16.3 ppg on .357 shooting and just 4.6 rpg and he has no calf injury to blame as a reason for his lack of production. Opposing power forwards are averaging a blistering 20.5 PER against him according to 82games.com and the team is allowing a whopping 11.4 points per 100 possessions more when Bargnani is on the court.

    Instead of working over defences with his strong mid-range game, he's once again drifting out to the three-point line and staying there, averaging a career-high 4.5 attempts per game from behind the arc. He's currently sporting a career-low in rebound rate and true shooting percentage, with his PER is sitting at 12.7, his lowest since 2007-08.

    The difference now, versus all of the other times in Bargnani's career when he's looked underwhelming, is that he's shown people his best and now that's what he's being measured against. No longer are we talking about Bargnani's ephemeral potential, but instead we are talking about the actual production that he demonstrated and is now not living up to. Those thirteen games have gone from being Bargnani's breakthrough to his cross to bear. Bargnani was kept in Toronto for so long because he was supposed to still have higher to climb as a player, because he still had heights that he hadn't shown the world yet.

    Well, he's shown those heights now, and he doesn't look anywhere close to being able to replicate them on a consistent basis, which is why it's time for the Raptors to sever ties and move on.

    Bargnani is a relic of a different time in Raptor-land, a time when offensive prowess was valued above all else, a time when the team was defined by a different cast of characters and a different guiding philosophy. For fans, he is a nightly reminder of what this team is supposed to be moving away from. The club wants to be seen as a gritty, defence-first outfit that wins with heart and hustle, and Bargnani is simply the antithesis to that style. He no longer belongs. Like so many Raptors before him, he has teased fans with what he could be and has refused to live up to that standard.

    Perhaps more than anything, that is the reason the Raptors have to trade Bargnani. They can no longer shrug their shoulders at players that don't work to max-out their talent. That can no longer be a defining characteristic of the club. They cited DeMar DeRozan's work ethic as a big reason why they felt obligated to extend his contract. They cited Jonas Valanciunas' heart and hustle as big factors in not only drafting him fifth but being willing to wait a year for his arrival. They love the intensity of guys like Kyle Lowry and Amir Johnson. Those guys represent what the club says it wants to be about, which by extension has to mean that Andrea Bargnani does not.

    If this club is so eager to move into the next phase of their evolution, then they have to admit that those thirteen games didn't mean what they thought they did. They have to work to expunge from the roster the pieces that don't fit the personality that the team so desperately wants to adopt, and that that process has to start by - finally - moving Bargnani out of Toronto.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Rookie Jon_Wade's Avatar
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    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/demar-derozan-1319/
    8 38.3 20.0 7.3 16.4 44.3 6.8 14.4 47.0 0.5 2.0 25.0 5.0 6.4 78.4 1.0 4.1 5.1 2.1 1.0 0.3 1.6 2.9

    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2CFJUjhtn
    http://www.draftexpress.com
    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Rudy-Gay-34/
    Rudy Gay 6 35.0 19.5 7.3 18.7 39.3 6.7 15.8 42.1 0.7 2.8 23.5 4.2 5.5 75.8 1.8 4.8 6.7 1.8 1.7 1.0 2.5 1.7

    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2CFKJghbi
    http://www.draftexpress.com

    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2CFJjVV8W
    http://www.draftexpress.com
    I know it's just the start of the season so far but.... Demar's scoring statistics are actually better than Rudy Gay's the rebounds are a little bit of a difference and Gay gets more blocks but if these stats stay roughly the same all year I think his contract is great because what Rudy does better than Demar isn't worth another 5 or 6 million
    Whoever told you skies the limit is looking dumb because I'm 22 and i'm moonwalking on the sun.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I acknowledged free throw attempts. Not sure why you felt obliged to raise the point I already made.

    As for shooting ability, don't confuse dunks and layups with "shooting". Both players are shooting approx. 38% outside of 3 feet.

    Now, care to comment on their defense, rebounding, and passing ability?
    The thing about putting Paul George on this team is that we already have too many player like him. Players that can shoot the ball but are subpar at getting to the rim. Can you imagine Ross and George on the perimeter for us? We would average 40 3s attempted a game. I find that DeMar is the best fit for the way this team is built at moment.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    The thing about putting Paul George on this team is that we already have too many player like him. Players that can shoot the ball but are subpar at getting to the rim. Can you imagine Ross and George on the perimeter for us? We would average 40 3s attempted a game. I find that DeMar is the best fit for the way this team is built at moment.
    I agree that George may not be the greatest fit with the Raptors. I was just responding to the idea that DeMar is better than George.

    In a vaccuum, I think George's game is a more well-rounded one.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  12. #32
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Demar to small forward, Ross to Sg. Who needs Gay anymore?

    Lets get paul milsap for Bargs and in 2-3 years a line up of :

    Lowry
    Ross
    Derozan
    Millsap
    Val

    Will wreak havoc.
    I've see this a few times on this board since we played Utah. Why in the world would Utah want Bargs? Millsap is a UFA after the season and they have Favours and Kanter waiting in the wings. They're way more apt just to let PM walk, and spend the money elsewhere.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I agree that George may not be the greatest fit with the Raptors. I was just responding to the idea that DeMar is better than George.

    In a vaccuum, I think George's game is a more well-rounded one.
    That could be so but, I don't think it's a for gone conclusion. It's not as obvious.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I don't even think it matters with the there size now with DeMar. I saw him post up Paul George multiple last game and Gordon Haywood(6'8"). Think of all his big games this and who was guarding him. Joe Johnson 6'7", Brandon Roy 6'6", Evan Turner 6'7" I can only think of two SF(Melo and Bron)in the east that he would have a problem posting up. If he moves to the SF he gains a quickness advantage that he did have before with guards.
    Yeah when he posted up George and took it strong to the rim I was really impressed with DeMar, but it was the first time I've seen him be successful against someone as big or bigger than himself. Hayward didn't guard him the entire game and got a block or two on DD in the Jazz game. Roy is sort of a poor example because the guy is basically on his last legs. As far as SF's in the east I think you left out Deng, and Pierce from you list, but it's not also on the offensive side of the ball that I'd be concerned with I would also think he's at a big disadvantage trying to defend bigger guys.

    Regardless, the intent of this thread wasn't meant to say that we should get rid of DD (hope I made it clear at the start of the post), it was to weigh the pros and cons of using a hot commodity to possibly improve the roster going forward. Personally I like the new DD and want to see how far he can take his game.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I agree that George may not be the greatest fit with the Raptors. I was just responding to the idea that DeMar is better than George.

    In a vaccuum, I think George's game is a more well-rounded one.
    I agree. Paul George, overall, is a better player than Demar. The diffence between the two lies in the fact that Derozan has the ability to get his own shot via post-ups, which is very important especially when the team is running dry on offense. George makes a better complementary piece especially if the team already has a low post presence. Additionally, George has really good defense, spot shooting and rebounding. Now, if the two of them ever teamed up on the wing, then now we're talking.
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    I'm feeling pretty comfortable with Derozan's ability to continue this play. Why? Because he's not doing anything extraordinary, but he's doing all the ordinary things extraordinarily well. It's not like he's on a hot shooting streak or anything like that. He's making the smart, simple plays each time on the court, which is something that I believe he'll keep doing. Also, when the whistles finally start blowing he's going to be a really dangerous player.

    The main things for him to keep working on are defence (as always) and shooting from range.
    I completely agree with you. But one thing that people forget the most about DD is his work ethic and the fact that he wants to be GREAT. Jack Armstrong talks about it all the time. DeRozan is a gym rat. His work ethic is legendary. He's always the first one in the gym and he's always the last one out. Always trying to improve his game.

    In my opinion, if you combine talent + work ethic = you're going to be great.

    I'n not saying DeRozan is the next Kobe. But in my opinion DD has a chance to be one of the best SG in the game. Remember he's only 23.

    This whole trade DeRozan talk is stupid.
    Last edited by TRex; Thu Nov 15th, 2012 at 02:18 AM.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    I agree. Paul George, overall, is a better player than Demar. The diffence between the two lies in the fact that Derozan has the ability to get his own shot via post-ups, which is very important especially when the team is running dry on offense. George makes a better complementary piece especially if the team already has a low post presence. Additionally, George has really good defense, spot shooting and rebounding. Now, if the two of them ever teamed up on the wing, then now we're talking.
    George for Bargnani? (Hey, we can dream, right? )
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    how bout bargnani for Granger?

  19. #39
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Alright, it's a shame I have to start this by saying I'm not advocating for trading DeMar, but homers are homers and now that I've catered to y'all lets talk basketball.

    Though it's an extremely small sample so far, DeMar DeRozan has continued his preseason trend of attacking the rim at all costs, and he's bumped up his fg% along with rebounding numbers to boot. When young players show solid improvement people take notice and some of those people are GM's.

    Depending on how confident you are in T. Ross taking over the starting SG role by next season, DD might arguably be our best trading chip right now that gives us the best chance at a SF. I know, I know the kid is finally showing us some of that potential we've seen in him, but if he can get you Rudy Gay, or Paul George in a package including some of our other assets would you think it's a good move? You gotta give up something of value to get something of value back right? If we can force feed T. Ross some minutes to advance his game a bit we could come out looking pretty good next season. Thoughts?
    Why would teams pay so much for a guy who's had his struggles? If they did want to trade him and get something of quality in return I think you need to wait until the deadline.

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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    I'm feeling pretty comfortable with Derozan's ability to continue this play. Why? Because he's not doing anything extraordinary, but he's doing all the ordinary things extraordinarily well. It's not like he's on a hot shooting streak or anything like that. He's making the smart, simple plays each time on the court, which is something that I believe he'll keep doing. Also, when the whistles finally start blowing he's going to be a really dangerous player.

    The main things for him to keep working on are defence (as always) and shooting from range.
    Really great point. As long as DeRozen's confidence stays at his level there's really no reason to doubt he can continue to do what he's done so far this season.

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