Twitterers Unite! #tradeBargnani #freeRaptorfans

[enlightenment]

The real reason why he will never be traded.... Primo spent a boat load of money on that commercial.

Hot&Cold kept running the Shaq in a Phoenix jersey WAY after his Phoenix days !!

[Matt52]

@RaptorsPR @Raptors How often can u say AB defense won the game in final 2mins? Quick #tradeBargnani so we'll all have warm&fuzzy memories!!

Don't let a couple of defensive plays sway you from the movement!

[enlightenment]

but they were amazing Matt. AMAZING. This is Bargs at his prime.

[Matt52]

Fun exercise that I would be interested in reading other's comments on.

Go through http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine and find a team that you think would be interested in acquiring Bargnani and why.

I'll start:

1) Charlotte: I think they would do anything to drop Thomas' contract.

2) Chicago: Would Thibs be able to motivate him? Would Noah and Deng be able to cover him? Boozer for Bargnani works. Bulls get under luxury tax and save $5M per year. Would Bulls throw in Charlotte pick (top 12 in 13, 10 in 14, 8 in 15, unprotected in 16)?

3) Denver: 6th man, Al Harrington replacement?

4) Houston: Pair with Asik? If 2 of those players could be fused as 1, HoF guaranteed. Morey a big advanced stats guy but advanced stats aren't a big Bargnani guy.

5) Clippers: Could Bargnani be the 6th man? Odom expiring, 1st round pick? I won't even mention Bledsoe because he is not available.

6) Lakers: Look what D'Antoni's system has done for Antawn Jamison. Gasol situation, were you aware? D'Antoni and Kobe have some Italian connections.



Of above, only one that really makes sense is LAL. Unfortunately, Gasol doesn't quite make sense for Toronto - enter a third team.


Now the real challenge, who would want Gasol and, more importantly, the ability to take on the near $20M he is owed for next season????

[enlightenment]

Ersan illyasova !

nevermind. Holy Crap this is worse than Fields regression by a long shot...

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ersan_...eer_stats.html

[NoPropsneeded]

Ersan illyasova !

nevermind. Holy Crap this is worse than Fields regression by a long shot...

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ersan_...eer_stats.html

This is why i didn't want him and i'm glad we didn't sign him. He's basically a poor mans bargnani that is a slightly better rebounder

[Raptor_11]

This is why i didn't want him and i'm glad we didn't sign him. He's basically a poor mans bargnani that is a slightly better rebounder

Slightly? he was a great rebounder last season. Its too bad that he couldnt keep it up, i feel sorry for the Bucks

[enlightenment]

what couldve happened to him?

He was break out player of the year last year! Now? oh boy..

[Raptor_11]

I have no idea. I guess some players just can't keep up the consistent play. We know all about that here in T.O

[NoPropsneeded]

what couldve happened to him?

He was break out player of the year last year! Now? oh boy..

He was probably just playing hard to net a big contract and some big bucks

[psrs1]

BC won't trade AB because it would be an admission of failure on his part.

[joey_hesketh]

BC won't trade AB because it would be an admission of failure on his part.

I've heard this argument before, but I think its a crock, to be honest with you.
BC has admitted Failure on more than a few occasions (trading Turk, JO to name a couple).

If he doesn't trade Bargs, its because he believes in him. Right or wrong.

[Matt52]

I've heard this argument before, but I think its a crock, to be honest with you.
BC has admitted Failure on more than a few occasions (trading Turk, JO to name a couple).

If he doesn't trade Bargs, its because he believes in him. Right or wrong.

+1

I believe what he does with Bargnani will determine his future in Toronto for the short term (i.e. his option year). That is 100% speculation on my part.

[Nilanka]

I've heard this argument before, but I think its a crock, to be honest with you.
BC has admitted Failure on more than a few occasions (trading Turk, JO to name a couple).

If he doesn't trade Bargs, its because he believes in him. Right or wrong.

Perhaps Colangelo believes draft picks reflect more heavily on a GM's ability to judge talent, compared to free agent acquisitions/trades?

[Mediumcore]

C'mon now, do you really think a GM can be a GM if he can't admit to his own failures? You'd have to be pretty damn vein to not admit to having made a 7 year mistake. The reason he's holding onto AB, whether they be right or wrong have nothing to do with him not wanting to admit he made a mistake.

[Craiger]

C'mon now, do you really think a GM can be a GM if he can't admit to his own failures? You'd have to be pretty damn vein to not admit to having made a 7 year mistake. The reason he's holding onto AB, whether they be right or wrong have nothing to do with him not wanting to admit he made a mistake.

Paraphrasing these:

"I tried everything I could to build around Chris Bosh but he wasn't good enough"

post 2010/11 season : "Andrea will never be a good defender but he can be a good rebounder" - post 2011/12 season "Andrea will never be a good rebounder but we saw he can be a good defender"

"on paper this was the best team I ever assembled"

Biggest draft mistake - "Casey Jacobson and PJ Tucker"

Does Colangelo admit failures? Sure. The small ones. But he never admits to the big ones and the ones with a significant impact. Don't get me wrong I'm not expecting him to go public and say "damn I f*cked that one up. My bad." But what he does do is invest more heavily in his mistakes in an attempt to make them work, which leads to even bigger problems. The most obvious being:

Bosh - JO/Marion/Hedo were all done in an attempt to retain Bosh. Besides Bosh not being a franchise player, there was little chance he was staying

Bargnani - #1 pick, has used him as the center peice of the team since Bosh left. Casey, "Accelerated Rebuilding" and all thats come with it

Plus now we have:

Demar - picked because of the need for athleticism and the lack of wing play, given a heavy team focus prematurely, now given a big contract extension prematurely.

This is what Colangelo does. He makes heavy investments in a players potential and then continues to force the issue. So while he does admit the small mistakes, there is significant difference in accepting and selling a $500 dollar loss in General Motors, while continuing to add to my $10,000 investment in horse drawn carriages.

[Mediumcore]

We're getting a bit off track because my point was just that I don't think he's not trading AB because it would be an admission of a mistake and that he has other reasons as to why he isn't trading him.

However, with regards to your comments on BC investing in players that aren't franchise players I have to ask what you think he could have done? In the entire history of the Raptors organization there was only one real franchise player and that was VC whom was drafted. We've never been able to trade for a franchise player or acquire one through free agency. I'm sure if you follow the team closely you would have at one time or another come across the argument/topic that Toronto as the only non-American franchise has a difficult time attracting American players. I really don't think that in those situations BC had a choice but to try and build around Bosh and Bargnanni even though they are not franchise players because it's near impossible for him to acquire a franchise player through free agency and trades.

OR

The other option would have been to go the route of clearing the roster of any real talent in order to acquire high draft picks which is essentialy tanking and hope you hit it big in the lottery/draft. Though whith his options that imo is the correct thing to do can you imagine the outcry from us fans?

[Craiger]

We're getting a bit off track because my point was just that I don't think he's not trading AB because it would be an admission of a mistake and that he has other reasons as to why he isn't trading him.

However, with regards to your comments on BC investing in players that aren't franchise players I have to ask what you think he could have done? In the entire history of the Raptors organization there was only one real franchise player and that was VC whom was drafted. We've never been able to trade for a franchise player or acquire one through free agency. I'm sure if you follow the team closely you would have at one time or another come across the argument/topic that Toronto as the only non-American franchise has a difficult time attracting American players. I really don't think that in those situations BC had a choice but to try and build around Bosh and Bargnanni even though they are not franchise players because it's near impossible for him to acquire a franchise player through free agency and trades.

OR

The other option would have been to go the route of clearing the roster of any real talent in order to acquire high draft picks which is essentialy tanking and hope you hit it big in the lottery/draft. Though whith his options that imo is the correct thing to do can you imagine the outcry from us fans?

At the end of the day the fans will comeback, and while they may not admit they were wrong for throwing a fuss about one thing or another they'll forget they were upset. They will end up supporting and respecting the guy if he made the right choices for the team. If you end up making the wrong ones, even if the fans liked them while they were happening, they will turn on you in a second. Individuals may choose their own paths, but the masses always move with the crowd - and the crowd doesn't think. It reacts.

That means its results that matter. Which then makes the question: "what route should one take to get the best results". As far as I'm concerned, based on the history of this team and the league, to build a top quality basketball team in a market like Toronto, the most likely route is going to be through the collection of high draft picks.

[Fully]

We're getting a bit off track because my point was just that I don't think he's not trading AB because it would be an admission of a mistake and that he has other reasons as to why he isn't trading him.

However, with regards to your comments on BC investing in players that aren't franchise players I have to ask what you think he could have done? In the entire history of the Raptors organization there was only one real franchise player and that was VC whom was drafted. We've never been able to trade for a franchise player or acquire one through free agency. I'm sure if you follow the team closely you would have at one time or another come across the argument/topic that Toronto as the only non-American franchise has a difficult time attracting American players. I really don't think that in those situations BC had a choice but to try and build around Bosh and Bargnanni even though they are not franchise players because it's near impossible for him to acquire a franchise player through free agency and trades.

OR

The other option would have been to go the route of clearing the roster of any real talent in order to acquire high draft picks which is essentialy tanking and hope you hit it big in the lottery/draft. Though whith his options that imo is the correct thing to do can you imagine the outcry from us fans?

As opposed to the outcry from fans after going 4-13 in a supposed "win-now" season with playoff aspirations?

I think Raptors fans are more intelligent than the common narrative (an NBA team masquerading in a 'hockey city') gives them credit for. I think a true rebuild would be supported in Toronto, if it was done properly. The problem with the Colangelo era is that there hasn't been a true plan executed. He has talked about a "youth movement" out of one side of his mouth while offering long term expensive contracts to veterans (Nash and Chandler in consecutive off seasons) and traded first round picks away out of the other.

[Mediumcore]

I'm with the same mind set of building through high draft picks, and was against trying to sign Nash this past off season because of it. However, a GM has a responsibility to try and keep the business afloat while trying to tear down and rebuild. I'm not sure how BC can tread the fine line between doing both. Perhaps the next GM (if it comes to that) will have a different philosphy on how to become more competetive.