View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.09%
  • B

    47 37.01%
  • C

    30 23.62%
  • D

    18 14.17%
  • F

    23 18.11%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #7781
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    *well
    Was wondering about that ... It's one of these things I tend to make mistakes in. Thx.

  2. #7782
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    No worries ! Its super common, but I feel that people would prefer speaking well (not speaking good) so I try to correct them. :P
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  3. #7783
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I've heard this argument before, but I think its a crock, to be honest with you.
    BC has admitted Failure on more than a few occasions (trading Turk, JO to name a couple).

    If he doesn't trade Bargs, its because he believes in him. Right or wrong.
    +1

    I believe what he does with Bargnani will determine his future in Toronto for the short term (i.e. his option year). That is 100% speculation on my part.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  4. #7784
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I've heard this argument before, but I think its a crock, to be honest with you.
    BC has admitted Failure on more than a few occasions (trading Turk, JO to name a couple).

    If he doesn't trade Bargs, its because he believes in him. Right or wrong.
    Perhaps Colangelo believes draft picks reflect more heavily on a GM's ability to judge talent, compared to free agent acquisitions/trades?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  5. #7785
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    C'mon now, do you really think a GM can be a GM if he can't admit to his own failures? You'd have to be pretty damn vein to not admit to having made a 7 year mistake. The reason he's holding onto AB, whether they be right or wrong have nothing to do with him not wanting to admit he made a mistake.

  6. #7786
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    C'mon now, do you really think a GM can be a GM if he can't admit to his own failures? You'd have to be pretty damn vein to not admit to having made a 7 year mistake. The reason he's holding onto AB, whether they be right or wrong have nothing to do with him not wanting to admit he made a mistake.
    Paraphrasing these:

    "I tried everything I could to build around Chris Bosh but he wasn't good enough"

    post 2010/11 season : "Andrea will never be a good defender but he can be a good rebounder" - post 2011/12 season "Andrea will never be a good rebounder but we saw he can be a good defender"

    "on paper this was the best team I ever assembled"

    Biggest draft mistake - "Casey Jacobson and PJ Tucker"

    Does Colangelo admit failures? Sure. The small ones. But he never admits to the big ones and the ones with a significant impact. Don't get me wrong I'm not expecting him to go public and say "damn I f*cked that one up. My bad." But what he does do is invest more heavily in his mistakes in an attempt to make them work, which leads to even bigger problems. The most obvious being:

    Bosh - JO/Marion/Hedo were all done in an attempt to retain Bosh. Besides Bosh not being a franchise player, there was little chance he was staying

    Bargnani - #1 pick, has used him as the center peice of the team since Bosh left. Casey, "Accelerated Rebuilding" and all thats come with it

    Plus now we have:

    Demar - picked because of the need for athleticism and the lack of wing play, given a heavy team focus prematurely, now given a big contract extension prematurely.

    This is what Colangelo does. He makes heavy investments in a players potential and then continues to force the issue. So while he does admit the small mistakes, there is significant difference in accepting and selling a $500 dollar loss in General Motors, while continuing to add to my $10,000 investment in horse drawn carriages.

  7. #7787
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    We're getting a bit off track because my point was just that I don't think he's not trading AB because it would be an admission of a mistake and that he has other reasons as to why he isn't trading him.

    However, with regards to your comments on BC investing in players that aren't franchise players I have to ask what you think he could have done? In the entire history of the Raptors organization there was only one real franchise player and that was VC whom was drafted. We've never been able to trade for a franchise player or acquire one through free agency. I'm sure if you follow the team closely you would have at one time or another come across the argument/topic that Toronto as the only non-American franchise has a difficult time attracting American players. I really don't think that in those situations BC had a choice but to try and build around Bosh and Bargnanni even though they are not franchise players because it's near impossible for him to acquire a franchise player through free agency and trades.

    OR

    The other option would have been to go the route of clearing the roster of any real talent in order to acquire high draft picks which is essentialy tanking and hope you hit it big in the lottery/draft. Though whith his options that imo is the correct thing to do can you imagine the outcry from us fans?

  8. #7788
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    We're getting a bit off track because my point was just that I don't think he's not trading AB because it would be an admission of a mistake and that he has other reasons as to why he isn't trading him.

    However, with regards to your comments on BC investing in players that aren't franchise players I have to ask what you think he could have done? In the entire history of the Raptors organization there was only one real franchise player and that was VC whom was drafted. We've never been able to trade for a franchise player or acquire one through free agency. I'm sure if you follow the team closely you would have at one time or another come across the argument/topic that Toronto as the only non-American franchise has a difficult time attracting American players. I really don't think that in those situations BC had a choice but to try and build around Bosh and Bargnanni even though they are not franchise players because it's near impossible for him to acquire a franchise player through free agency and trades.

    OR

    The other option would have been to go the route of clearing the roster of any real talent in order to acquire high draft picks which is essentialy tanking and hope you hit it big in the lottery/draft. Though whith his options that imo is the correct thing to do can you imagine the outcry from us fans?


    At the end of the day the fans will comeback, and while they may not admit they were wrong for throwing a fuss about one thing or another they'll forget they were upset. They will end up supporting and respecting the guy if he made the right choices for the team. If you end up making the wrong ones, even if the fans liked them while they were happening, they will turn on you in a second. Individuals may choose their own paths, but the masses always move with the crowd - and the crowd doesn't think. It reacts.

    That means its results that matter. Which then makes the question: "what route should one take to get the best results". As far as I'm concerned, based on the history of this team and the league, to build a top quality basketball team in a market like Toronto, the most likely route is going to be through the collection of high draft picks.

  9. #7789
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    We're getting a bit off track because my point was just that I don't think he's not trading AB because it would be an admission of a mistake and that he has other reasons as to why he isn't trading him.

    However, with regards to your comments on BC investing in players that aren't franchise players I have to ask what you think he could have done? In the entire history of the Raptors organization there was only one real franchise player and that was VC whom was drafted. We've never been able to trade for a franchise player or acquire one through free agency. I'm sure if you follow the team closely you would have at one time or another come across the argument/topic that Toronto as the only non-American franchise has a difficult time attracting American players. I really don't think that in those situations BC had a choice but to try and build around Bosh and Bargnanni even though they are not franchise players because it's near impossible for him to acquire a franchise player through free agency and trades.

    OR

    The other option would have been to go the route of clearing the roster of any real talent in order to acquire high draft picks which is essentialy tanking and hope you hit it big in the lottery/draft. Though whith his options that imo is the correct thing to do can you imagine the outcry from us fans?
    As opposed to the outcry from fans after going 4-13 in a supposed "win-now" season with playoff aspirations?

    I think Raptors fans are more intelligent than the common narrative (an NBA team masquerading in a 'hockey city') gives them credit for. I think a true rebuild would be supported in Toronto, if it was done properly. The problem with the Colangelo era is that there hasn't been a true plan executed. He has talked about a "youth movement" out of one side of his mouth while offering long term expensive contracts to veterans (Nash and Chandler in consecutive off seasons) and traded first round picks away out of the other.

  10. #7790
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I'm with the same mind set of building through high draft picks, and was against trying to sign Nash this past off season because of it. However, a GM has a responsibility to try and keep the business afloat while trying to tear down and rebuild. I'm not sure how BC can tread the fine line between doing both. Perhaps the next GM (if it comes to that) will have a different philosphy on how to become more competetive.

  11. #7791
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    Scroll back to the older posts where I argue how Gallinari is much better than Bargnani in every way.
    I had all the veteran users calling for my head. How good is that deal looking now?
    How good is it looking? Just as senseless as it always has. You say trade for a guy who essentially plays the same game, but whether looking at career or this year, has a lower FG%, lower 3P%, and fewer rebounds, worse offensive rating, basically the same defensive rating. What makes that an attractive trade to you?

  12. #7792
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    I'm not saying I'm for a Bargnani/Gallo swap, but the fact that Gallo plays SF (instead of PF or C), would make his defensive weaknesses much more tolerable compared to Bargnani. Gallo wouldn't have the same rotation/rim protection responsibilities that Bargnani is often stuck with.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  13. #7793
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I'm not saying I'm for a Bargnani/Gallo swap, but the fact that Gallo plays SF (instead of PF or C), would make his defensive weaknesses much more tolerable compared to Bargnani. Gallo wouldn't have the same rotation/rim protection responsibilities that Bargnani is often stuck with.
    exactly. Gallo is a SF.

    Gallo brings in the same offensive qualities but he can run the floor and play at a higher intensity at both ends.

  14. #7794
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    exactly. Gallo is a SF.

    Gallo brings in the same offensive qualities but he can run the floor and play at a higher intensity at both ends.
    +1

  15. #7795
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I'm with the same mind set of building through high draft picks, and was against trying to sign Nash this past off season because of it. However, a GM has a responsibility to try and keep the business afloat while trying to tear down and rebuild. I'm not sure how BC can tread the fine line between doing both. Perhaps the next GM (if it comes to that) will have a different philosphy on how to become more competetive.
    If we go back through the teams profitability over the years, the team being afloat is one of the last problems they have. It doesn't matter how bad this team has been, it makes money.

  16. #7796
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Does anybody mind that as a mod, my first accomplishment be changing the name of this thread?
    I think Hoopsworld has taken enough of a beating just by having that evidence that they wrote that, up for so long. Haha
    In Masai we Trust.

  17. #7797
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    That, and change Val's "Buyout talk"
    TORONTOOOOOO RAPTORSSSSSS

  18. #7798
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote theycallmeZZ wrote: View Post
    That, and change Val's "Buyout talk"
    Good call. Done and done.
    In Masai we Trust.

  19. #7799
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    i think grumble grumble grumble suits it perfect

  20. #7800
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Does anybody mind that as a mod, my first accomplishment be changing the name of this thread?
    I think Hoopsworld has taken enough of a beating just by having that evidence that they wrote that, up for so long. Haha
    OMG Your a mod! Congrats brooo. I knew my man would make it to the top lol
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

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