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Thread: Moronic

  1. #1
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    Default Moronic

    Amnesty Bargnani? Are you guys completely losing it? I think too many Raptor disappointments are making people around here lose their marbles. I'd like to give you guys the benefit of the doubt and assume you're kidding, but sadly I don't think you are.

    Now before everyone starts going ape-shit in responding to this, let me just say: I agree that he is playing terribly. I agree that he should be given less playing time and possibly removed from the starting lineup if this continues. And for the first time in the last 7 years, I even agree that we should start looking at trading him. But amnestying him, are you serious?

    Although his value is arguably at its lowest point right now, the guy still has some definite value, and probably more than most of you think. And his contract is quite reasonable, even given his recent terrible play. To amnesty him would be simply throwing away an asset.

    And finally let me just say this. We're still only 9 games into the season. A lot of great players are having poor starts to the season. Bargs didn't play much last year and didn't play for Italy during the summer. Give it a bit more time before you start losing your shit. I'm not saying he'll turn it around, but it's too early to make a rash decision and trade him away for less than market value, let alone amnesty him.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie footarez's Avatar
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    It is not rash decision - this decision (to trade him I mean) should have been made 2-3 years ago..at least. He may have surprised most of the fans with the 13 games last season but how many seasons would we be loosing to understand that he is not the type of player the management of our team thinks he is. Amensty could be seen as little premature but look at it this way (just an idea, example ) - would you hire someone like Kenyon Martin if you had roster spot and money from AB. And by money I don't mean use all the money on him ?
    My point is that while not guaranteed return is available if there really aren't any reasonable trade options perhaps amnesty is not that bad of an idea. And also what we as fans think his value on the market is probably very inaccurate.
    * Excuse my spelling (I 'm probably still shaking from last night's game)

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    Quote footarez wrote: View Post
    My point is that while not guaranteed return is available if there really aren't any reasonable trade options perhaps amnesty is not that bad of an idea.
    Yes it is.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie footarez's Avatar
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    Quote Michel G wrote: View Post
    Yes it is.
    Care to say why or just nuisance posts fan ?

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    Quote footarez wrote: View Post
    Care to say why or just nuisance posts fan ?
    I can think of 50 trades that the Raptors can do to get at least something in return for Bargnani. Especially if the goal is to basically give him away. There are a lot of bottom feeder teams that would take a flyer on Bargnani. I'm not being a nuisance, it's a stupid idea to amnesty him. What did optifan call it, moronic.

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    Quote optifan wrote: View Post
    Amnesty Bargnani? Are you guys completely losing it? I think too many Raptor disappointments are making people around here lose their marbles. I'd like to give you guys the benefit of the doubt and assume you're kidding, but sadly I don't think you are.
    +1

    Bargnani has been the target of the fans' hate the past couple of years and, if he's traded, DeRozan will the next target.

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    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    +1

    Bargnani has been the target of the fans' hate the past couple of years and, if he's traded, DeRozan will the next target.
    Yep. Then we praise Sonny Weems and Alan Anderson. Very confusing

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    Bargnani's negatives exceed the positives, especially the way he has been shooting the last few seasons. It's not moronic, it is very logical to think that the Raptors will be better without Bargnani.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Houston amnestied Scola who is arguably better than Bargnani and was making less. There are a lot of reasons why amnestying a player could be done. Perhaps the Raptors would be interested in a free agent like Millsap and would prefer to free up cap space to chase him rather than try to make a trade offer with Utah.

    The only issue I have with amnestying Bargnani is that we would have to wait until this season is over.. I can be patient, but that's a long time to wait. I would prefer a trade just so the insanity can end already.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    +1

    Bargnani has been the target of the fans' hate the past couple of years and, if he's traded, DeRozan will the next target.
    +1

    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    Bargnani's negatives exceed the positives, especially the way he has been shooting the last few seasons. It's not moronic, it is very logical to think that the Raptors will be better without Bargnani.
    i am not of the mind we will be better off without him. i think he will be better off without us

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    Raptors Republic Rookie footarez's Avatar
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    Quote Michel G wrote: View Post
    I can think of 50 trades that the Raptors can do to get at least something in return for Bargnani. Especially if the goal is to basically give him away. There are a lot of bottom feeder teams that would take a flyer on Bargnani. I'm not being a nuisance, it's a stupid idea to amnesty him. What did optifan call it, moronic.
    I wish we knew what the Raptors are being offered in return for Bargnani but we don't. To clarify I am not rooting to amnesty him just for fun (actually it may be fun but still) - I want amnesty IF,and only if the trade value is actually very low.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Yogi's Avatar
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    I really do think that before trading or amnestying Il Mago, we should let him come off the bench. Sure it will be a bruise to his ego but it might make him hustle that much hard for his starting spot back. DC needs to toy with this idea. I recently saw how OKC coach pulled Durant early in the 1st and brought him back in with the second unit as an experiment to make the second unit more of a threat, and it worked. Durant actually liked it. To put your 2-time top scorer in the league in a semi-bench role for the betterment of the team is ballsy, and I think DC needs to consider some drastic changes when it comes to Bargs.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Yogi wrote: View Post
    I really do think that before trading or amnestying Il Mago, we should let him come off the bench. Sure it will be a bruise to his ego but it might make him hustle that much hard for his starting spot back. DC needs to toy with this idea. I recently saw how OKC coach pulled Durant early in the 1st and brought him back in with the second unit as an experiment to make the second unit more of a threat, and it worked. Durant actually liked it. To put your 2-time top scorer in the league in a semi-bench role for the betterment of the team is ballsy, and I think DC needs to consider some drastic changes when it comes to Bargs.
    Honestly, I wouldn't even want to take that approach. The issue is effort and intensity.

    I look at Bargnani like a girlfriend who cheated. I could never trust her again and inevitably the relationship is going to fail because of that lack of trust.

    Same with Bargnani. We saw what he can do. He chooses not to do it. Sure he could put up a good stretch - even another 13 and 16/17 out of 31 - but I'll always be wondering when the true colours shine through.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I agree that amnestying Bargnani doesn't many sense. If there are suitors for Turkoglu and Arenas, then there are suitors for Bargnani. Even 2nd round picks are better than nothing.

    The only way amnestying makes sense is if Colangelo has a trade up his sleeve, and needs an extra $10 million in cap space to make the deal work. But in that situation, Calderon would be a better amnesty candidate because of his expiring contract.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I agree that amnestying Bargnani doesn't many sense. If there are suitors for Turkoglu and Arenas, then there are suitors for Bargnani. Even 2nd round picks are better than nothing.

    The only way amnestying makes sense is if Colangelo has a trade up his sleeve, and needs an extra $10 million in cap space to make the deal work. But in that situation, Calderon would be a better amnesty candidate because of his expiring contract.
    Jose can't be amnestied anymore. The last chance was this past off season. You can only amnesty in the off season and only one time. Once this season ends, Jose is a free agent.

    The only amnesty candidates we have left are Bargnani, Amir and Kleiza.

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Thanks. My bad.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I agree that amnestying Bargnani doesn't many sense. If there are suitors for Turkoglu and Arenas, then there are suitors for Bargnani. Even 2nd round picks are better than nothing.

    The only way amnestying makes sense is if Colangelo has a trade up his sleeve, and needs an extra $10 million in cap space to make the deal work. But in that situation, Calderon would be a better amnesty candidate because of his expiring contract.
    The ability to use the amnesty clause only exists within a certain window. That window has passed for Calderon.

    The Raptors will not be able to amnesty a player until after this season, and the remaining options are Kleiza, Amir and Bargnani.


    Yes there are suitors for almost every contract, but its also relative to what you get back. In order to get rid of Arenas, Washington needed to take back Rashard Lewis. It was a worst deal in the NBA for the 2nd worst deal in the NBA type trade. There was a suitor for Hedo (who also happened to be Hedo's agent.....) but still the return was a past his prime, marginally useful player in Barbossa. Better than Hedo? Yes. A player even worth his contract? No.

    But lets even say Colangelo would willing take something as cheap as a 2nd round pick for Bargnani. The team he is traded to would need to:

    1) have the cap space to make the deal right now + moving forward

    2) the roster space to make the deal right now. Even if they waive a player, they are in essence still going to pay Bargnani + the waived player's contract (depending on its structure ofcourse).

    3) the willingness to pay Bargnani moving forward

    Which immediately reduces the number of potential suitors.

    Realistically Toronto would most likely need to take a contract back + the 2nd round pick to make the deal work. Depending on what that contract is: Amnesty may still be more valuable than a 2nd round pick.

    While I find it highly unlikely that the Raps amnesty Bargnani, the idea of amnesty should not be off the table. Its not as "moronic" as it sounds depending on the league wide economics (both ability and willingness to pay bargnani vs Toronto's return).

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    Can I just ask, with all the AB trashing, why are we not at least taking pains to complement DD on his improved play? Dude tries hard every play, has stopped the whining and practices hard...oh yeah, and WANTS to be here and bring others...where's the love???

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Why would we be discussing DeRozan on a Bargnani thread?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote footarez wrote: View Post
    I want amnesty IF,and only if the trade value is actually very low.
    this bothers me. lets say bc puts out a email to 29 other gms saying bargs' is on the market and only one gm answer back and says he has the 60th pick of the second round. does that then become so low of a calue that you would pay him to play on another team?

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