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Thread: Double Standards abound?

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Default Double Standards abound?

    Firstly, I wanted to shed some light on some comments Doc Rivers made about Demar recently:

    "I don't think people notice him -- not because they are in Toronto, but because of their record," Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. "I think people are sleeping on him a lot. I think he adds stuff every year. Early on, he was basically a kamikaze driver -- that's what we labeled him as, early on. Now he gets to the line. He makes jump shots. He defends. He's a total basketball player."

    Some would argue with that -- DeRozan's shooting percentages have flatlined since his rookie year -- but it does appear that the light is going on in his fourth season, which raises another interesting question about players and their development curve.

    "Everyone's different," Rivers said. "(Kevin) Durant picked it up pretty quickly. The greats ones do, some of the guys that have a chance to be really good -- it just takes them time and patience. The mental toughness of that is hard. A lot of guys give in, give up and settle. A lot of guys keep driving. What I like about him, and I don't know him at all, but it just seems like from afar, he must put a lot of time in the summer on his game, because each year, he's gotten not just a little better, but a lot better in areas that you would have to work on. So I think that's impressive."
    Source
    How nice of him to notice! Wish we'd hear more stuff like this from our own fans!

    Now then; Halifax Raps Fan brought up the following point in another thread (Bargs bashing Thread), that I thought I'd highlight a little bit more as well:

    Quote Halifax Raps Fan wrote: View Post
    Can I just ask, with all the AB trashing, why are we not at least taking pains to complement DD on his improved play? Dude tries hard every play, has stopped the whining and practices hard...oh yeah, and WANTS to be here and bring others...where's the love???
    To Summarize what I believe Hal's point to be:
    For all the ire Bargnani warrants for his lack of 'Enthusiasm', Demar's play should warrant the exact opposite reaction, in terms of praise from those same fans. No?


    Maybe I'm missing something though.


    I think, to a lesser degree, the same double-standard argument could be made about Jerryd Bayless / John Lucas.
    But thats a conversation for another day.
    "I just dunked. Got a little dunk. Thatís nice." Terrence Ross

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    we have been praising demar though
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
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    he will win over the rest of the fans after they have seen some consistency.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    we have been praising demar though
    I count roughly 6 threads dedicated solely to Bargnani and how horrible he has been.

    I count ... maybe 1 thread regarding Demars play (and I'm pretty sure that turned into a Bargnani thread anyway).


    Obviously I've been around the Forum long enough to understand that the "Squeeky wheel gets the lube", (read: Bad play brings out far more angst, than good play brings joy) but I guess I'm just trying to understand why it is the way it is.

    Maybe it just makes me sad to see so much negativity.
    "I just dunked. Got a little dunk. Thatís nice." Terrence Ross

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I count roughly 6 threads dedicated solely to Bargnani and how horrible he has been.

    I count ... maybe 1 thread regarding Demars play (and I'm pretty sure that turned into a Bargnani thread anyway).


    Obviously I've been around the Forum long enough to understand that the "Squeeky wheel gets the lube", (read: Bad play brings out far more angst, than good play brings joy) but I guess I'm just trying to understand why it is the way it is.

    Maybe it just makes me sad to see so much negativity.
    Joey, I definitely agree on the negativity. I know I am a major part of the negativity right now. I do apologize but Bargnani is everything this team is suppose to not be about.

    DeMar on the other hand seems to have improved by leaps and bounds. It is great to see. He is currently exemplifies everything the Raptors brass has been paying lip service to the last 2 years. I do hope he continues with his play. I also hope he and Colangelo can slap each other on the back and laugh at everyone who questioned the contract.... me included.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i think what you probably should have brought up is how people don't seem to know how to use the "reply" button but instead use the "new thread" one
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Starter Fuchan's Avatar
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    Demar is a baller, wish everyone could have his mentality. He loves being in Canada, and I love him being here. He's going to keep getting better, as he has been doing. When Lowry gets back in the swing of things, they are going to be one of the best backcourts in the game.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I have always admired DeMar's work ethic.. but the talent is still not quite there. He has time to improve of course and I hope he does. I'm just concerned about his contract. That's not his fault, it's Bryan's - but unfortunately he will have a lot to live up to. Before this year he was a liability. He has proven to be an asset which is great, but he still has a long way to go before you could consider him a $9.5M man.

    I just want the Raptors to field the best team possible.. and if one the players on the squad is producing more than 30mpg than I would want that player to be an asset not a liability.

    As the saying goes, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. As Raptor fans we want a strong chain, and unfortunately its destined to fail when Bargnani is partly responsible for holding it together. So when we lose or have a close win, then we look at what lead to that loss or what prevented us from winning big, and we critique. It's only natural.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Ion66's Avatar
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    You're forgetting that this is the Internet. People get far more fired up to rant or complain about something than they do to praise a thing or a person. It's like reviews for products. If I'm unhappy with something and think it sucks, I'll write a review because I'm pissed at having spent money on crap. If I really love something and got a screaming deal on it, I *might* write a review. If I like something, or even really like something, I am very unlikely to make the effort to post a review. That doesnt mean that I dont appreciate the product (or DeMar), it just means that I dont have enough of an emotional response to his play to start a topic about it.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    As the saying goes, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. As Raptor fans we want a strong chain, and unfortunately its destined to fail when Bargnani is partly responsible for holding it together. So when we lose or have a close win, then we look at what lead to that loss or what prevented us from winning big, and we critique. It's only natural.
    You had me for a bit, but then I found something to disagree with. Haha

    While I agree its fine to question the circumstances which lead to a loss, there is a point when it crosses the line of "Criticism" and into "Blatant Hatred". It is here, wherein lies my problem.

    I also don't think its 'only natural' to question these those same circumstances after a win. A win should be a positive thing. Period.
    Once you start questioning the wins with "why did we only win by 5, instead of 20", then you're getting into a pretty dangerous game of speculation and "what should have been" .. and in sports, we all know that speculation can lead you to ANY result you wish.


    Not to mention, you take away from the win itself, by insisting it should have been 'bigger' or 'better', or more thorough.

    Perhaps this isn't the best analogy, but its all I could come up with:
    Remember when you'd come home from School with a A, and your Brother got a D; and your parents would spend the whole time being pissed about a D, and never even acknowledge the A you brought home? (No? Only happened to me? Ya so what if I've got Big-Brother issues ... :P)
    "I just dunked. Got a little dunk. Thatís nice." Terrence Ross

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    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Too much hate for Bargnani. Just enough praise for Derozan.

    One is doing no less than his whole career has shown. People shouldn't be surprised and shouldn't overreact.

    The other is doing no more than he's expected to do. People shouldn't be surprised and shouldn't overreact.

    But people are human, and thus are surprised and are overreacting in both cases.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Sig's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I count roughly 6 threads dedicated solely to Bargnani and how horrible he has been.

    I count ... maybe 1 thread regarding Demars play (and I'm pretty sure that turned into a Bargnani thread anyway).


    Obviously I've been around the Forum long enough to understand that the "Squeeky wheel gets the lube", (read: Bad play brings out far more angst, than good play brings joy) but I guess I'm just trying to understand why it is the way it is.

    Maybe it just makes me sad to see so much negativity.
    I don't think you understand how the human brain works.

    People like to complain, people like to bitch, people would rather focus on the negatives to try and correct them rather than give never-ending praise to the positives. Because if we didn't, what else would we do all day?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    The truth is we are still a little cautious with giving Demar the opposite treatment of Bargs.

    Bargs got his treatment after 7 years of lazyness. Its once we believe Demar is capable of the consistent effort and shows us what anti-lazy looks like game after game (the same way Bargs showed us what lazy was game after game) that I know we are going to explode with pride.

    Currently we have cautious-optimism around Demar, because we've seen him tear the league up for 5 games in a row before, and then go back to a mediocre season.

    Trust me, The fans WANT to cheer on Demar. If Demar keeps his play elevated, and continues to rebound, and continues to show grit and determination, EXACTLY as he has been the past few games, I know the fan base will give him the recognition he deserves.

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I have always admired DeMar's work ethic.. but the talent is still not quite there. He has time to improve of course and I hope he does. I'm just concerned about his contract. That's not his fault, it's Bryan's - but unfortunately he will have a lot to live up to. Before this year he was a liability. He has proven to be an asset which is great, but he still has a long way to go before you could consider him a $9.5M man.

    I just want the Raptors to field the best team possible.. and if one the players on the squad is producing more than 30mpg than I would want that player to be an asset not a liability.

    As the saying goes, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. As Raptor fans we want a strong chain, and unfortunately its destined to fail when Bargnani is partly responsible for holding it together. So when we lose or have a close win, then we look at what lead to that loss or what prevented us from winning big, and we critique. It's only natural.
    I think your post is the perfect example to what Joey is saying and is typical of our fans. You can't even manage a compliment about Demar's play to date this year only "concern" over his contract. I know that you are not trying to be negative and I am not trying to bash you at all, just saying that this is the typical response when anything good happens to the team. The "I'll believe it when I see it" or "it's only valuable if he never makes another mistake" type of response.

    And while I agree with you that for Raps fans being critical seems to be natural, I think that is more of a reflection on the fans not the team. It should be just as natural to appreciate something positive that happens or gutting out an ugly win or whatever.

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    Quote Ion66 wrote: View Post
    You're forgetting that this is the Internet. People get far more fired up to rant or complain about something than they do to praise a thing or a person. It's like reviews for products. If I'm unhappy with something and think it sucks, I'll write a review because I'm pissed at having spent money on crap. If I really love something and got a screaming deal on it, I *might* write a review. If I like something, or even really like something, I am very unlikely to make the effort to post a review. That doesnt mean that I dont appreciate the product (or DeMar), it just means that I dont have enough of an emotional response to his play to start a topic about it.
    This is the very problem. Don't you think manufacturers or players or whatever would like to hear about a job well done once in a while. What if the only feedback you received from your boss or parent or whoever was negative, how much would you enjoy going to work everyday.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Tesla wrote: View Post
    I don't think you understand how the human brain works.

    People like to complain, people like to bitch, people would rather focus on the negatives to try and correct them rather than give never-ending praise to the positives. Because if we didn't, what else would we do all day?
    Sure doesn't sound like last season and this past offseason. Non-positive statements were treated like they were Mein Kampf.

    There is just as much never ending positivity around here as negativity. This happens to be a recently flow of negativity because players, the team and future expectations that aren't being met.

    Once the bar is reset to a lower level everything will be sunshine again.

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    I don't know if anyone has realized this, but Derozan is 3rd among shooting guards for the Eastern Conf. in points and rebounds. As well as 11th in FG %, I have always been a huge Demar Derozan fan, but he even exceeded my expectations. I don't think anybody realizes 19/5/2 with 47% is pretty hard to obtain, so even though we're 3-7 most of our losses were extremely close and this season is probably the most exciting season for me since 2010.

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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote er1csh3n wrote: View Post
    I don't know if anyone has realized this, but Derozan is 3rd among shooting guards for the Eastern Conf. in points and rebounds. As well as 11th in FG %, I have always been a huge Demar Derozan fan, but he even exceeded my expectations. I don't think anybody realizes 19/5/2 with 47% is pretty hard to obtain, so even though we're 3-7 most of our losses were extremely close and this season is probably the most exciting season for me since 2010.
    his rebounding and shot selection are what have really jumped out to me. We always hear that rebounding and defence are all about effort. Personally I think defence requires a certain mind, an ability to "see" plays unfolding in real time and the ability to understand where it's going along with what the second and possibly third option will be. That's a lot of info to process at a high rate of speed and doesn't take into account what to do in the event of a break down.... whoa, tangent alert! At least he's trying to get into passing lanes more.

    Rebounding IS all effort and a young athletic guy like DD should be able to put forth enough effort to get 5-7 rebounds a game. I always thought it was a bigger knock on him than his range. A lot of guys have issues with shooting but rebounds? Just go get the friggin ball!

    Now that he's doing that I can start harping on his assist rate... oh wait! He's making great passes out of the post and should be racking up more dimes and especially the hockey assists. Unfortunately Andrea forgot how to shoot and Landry is apparently suffering early onset Parkinsons.
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I'm not going to hi-jack the content of the thread but it is interesting to note that there are other and more glaring double standards that surround the Raptors as a team than the thoughts and comments of fans on forums.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'm not going to hi-jack the content of the thread but it is interesting to note that there are other and more glaring double standards that surround the Raptors as a team than the thoughts and comments of fans on forums.
    As in from the general media?
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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