We should trade Calderon right now. What could Calderon plus Bargnani get?

**KeonClark** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 01:53 AM

His value has never been higher.

We need a shake up, badly.

Court is kind of crowded

Calderon plus Bargnani for Gay/Selby?? One could only dream..

**charlesnba23** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 03:52 AM

**Miekenstien** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 05:44 AM

charlesnba23 wrote:

this is awesome. like when i use to play wow and was on wowhead for hours just looking at different builds. did you go through every team here?

**Ltron** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 04:15 AM

I'd pull the trigger on the hawks or jazz trades in a second. Doubtful either team would go for that though. Atlanta because they don't want Bargnani's contract eating cap space and Jazz for the same reason, unless they are sure that Millsap is leaving at the end of the season.

**OzRapFan** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 05:33 AM

Probably Boozer and Deng

**minks77** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 05:55 AM

I said it on the showcasing thread: I don't think the theory of value is all that big a player. Is anyone surprised at what JC is doing? No. It's exactly what one can expect from him. Sure the Assist numbers have been rather gaudy recently but we all know that's his game. Hasn't translated into oodles of wins has it? Calderons value is as much tied to his ending contract as to his play.

**Primer** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 06:01 AM

The most realistic might be the Golden State trade. We get them out from under Jefferson's onerous contract (we'd owe Jefferson $11M next year if he exercises his player option), allow them to put a true PG next to Curry, and we swap PF/C's who have underachieved on their respective teams, with us getting the better PF out of the bargain, albeit the one with the much larger contract. GS will likely be looking to shed some salary to get under the luxury tax next season, so this one seems at least plausible.

I'd do it. I'm a big fan of David Lee's game and think his contract is reasonable. Last season he put up 20pts 10reb 3ast 50%FG, and he's been doing this consistently for the past 4 seasons. Big upgrade over Bargs and someone I would like on the team regardless.

**minks77** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 06:08 AM

Primer wrote:

The most realistic might be the Golden State trade. We get them out from under Jefferson's onerous contract (we'd owe Jefferson $11M next year if he exercises his player option), allow them to put a true PG next to Curry, and we swap PF/C's who have underachieved on their respective teams, with us getting the better PF out of the bargain, albeit the one with the much larger contract. GS will likely be looking to shed some salary to get under the luxury tax next season, so this one seems at least plausible.

I'd do it. I'm a big fan of David Lee's game and think his contract is reasonable. Last season he put up 20pts 10reb 3ast 50%FG, and he's been doing this consistently for the past 4 seasons. Big upgrade over Bargs and someone I would like on the team regardless.

Wow, David Lee might be even worse defensively than AB. He's a total void on that side of the floor and he's way overpaid for stuffing stats.

**minks77** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 06:33 AM

Of all those trades I like the LAL one the best as it nets us the best possible player in return and really helps the Lakers, seems to me the best win/win.

The most likely trade a rival GM would like would prob be the Chi town Boozer and Rip trade. Rip has given them nothing and Booz is an overrated scorer (like AB) who disappears in the post season and who is owed more money. I think it's a lateral move in that sense and an upgrade in the rip for JC department until Rose is healthy again but it's a huge win in cap terms for an apparently rebuilding on the fly Chicago team. Hurts Toronto big time though.

**Vykis** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 06:46 AM

Have always been a big fan of Andy V, our pick and roll D would b insane with AV and JV with 100% hustle all the time, not much on offense though.

**Miekenstien** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 08:55 AM

pau would be the best because he is a winner. we need winners

**Matt52** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 09:01 AM

Miekenstien wrote:

pau would be the best because he is a winner. we need winners

+1

He also fits the style of game that Casey has been preaching.

By no means is he ideal due to his age and contract but the Raptors need to learn to win.

**ebrian** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 09:04 AM

Do you think it's possible that the GM would approach said players and point out that if they want to be another a team, now would be the time to showcase their talents (given the injury to Lowry). And maybe, Bargnani just doesn't want to get traded? Or is it more likely that Bargnani just sucks. I'm a believer of the latter scenario, though I could see Jose stepping up so he can leave..

**footarez** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 09:07 AM

All those trades may seem reaonable in the trade machine - salary wise but in real life they would NEVER happen. The only one remotely possible would be the one with Detroit. I think we reaaaaaaly overvalue Bargnani and Calderon. If we get a decent player + picks in return we should be happy. I don't see another Turkoglu for Barbosa type of trade + didn't turn out so great in the end anyway.

**charlesnba23** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 01:28 PM

footarez wrote:

All those trades may seem reaonable in the trade machine - salary wise but in real life they would NEVER happen. The only one remotely possible would be the one with Detroit. I think we reaaaaaaly overvalue Bargnani and Calderon. If we get a decent player + picks in return we should be happy. I don't see another Turkoglu for Barbosa type of trade + didn't turn out so great in the end anyway.

I don't overvalue those 2 at all. Bargs and Calderon are Bargs and Calderon. It's not because they are in the Raptors that we necessarily overvalue them. Bargnani is a 7 footer who's a good scorer and who can shoot lights out when he's into it. He got really good abilities for a man of his size and he's quicker than most PF/C. Calderon is one of the best playmakers in the league and he's a leader. He's a really good shooter and he takes care of the ball like nobody else.

That's what those two players are, and this is not subjective at all.

**BD12** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 01:34 PM

Jose is 31 and has had dealt with injuries the past few seasons. He can't keep up with most of the starting PGs in the league and is a liability at the end of games on the defensive end. If you guys are expecting a Boozer (why would you want him anyway?), Deng (a borderline all-star SF), Al Jefferson/Mo Williams, or even a lottery pick...you guys will be very disappointed

**footarez** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 02:55 PM

charlesnba23 wrote:

I don't overvalue those 2 at all. Bargs and Calderon are Bargs and Calderon. It's not because they are in the Raptors that we necessarily overvalue them. Bargnani is a 7 footer who's a good scorer and who can shoot lights out when he's into it. He got really good abilities for a man of his size and he's quicker than most PF/C. Calderon is one of the best playmakers in the league and he's a leader. He's a really good shooter and he takes care of the ball like nobody else.

That's what those two players are, and this is not subjective at all.

The trade with Cleveland is actually also interesting and seems more realistic to me. We could argue that you overvalue them and I undervalue them but bargnani is inefficiant scorer (stats for that can be seen all over the bargnani thread) with very weak defense especially for his position. I agree he can shoot the lights out but unfortunately he is into it not very often. He has good abilities but he is not showing them often enough and he also does have inabilities - such as help defense. On Calderon we agree here but if I may add that he gets injured often, he may start to regress and his contract is not that great. As primary ball stopper on defense he is also very weak but you are rigth that a lot of teams can and should use him. I like Calderon a lot and if we can package him with bargnani for any of the trades you proposed I would scream Raptors win x 3 times Chuck Swirsky style.

**charlesnba23** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 05:38 PM

footarez wrote:

The trade with Cleveland is actually also interesting and seems more realistic to me. We could argue that you overvalue them and I undervalue them but bargnani is inefficiant scorer (stats for that can be seen all over the bargnani thread) with very weak defense especially for his position. I agree he can shoot the lights out but unfortunately he is into it not very often. He has good abilities but he is not showing them often enough and he also does have inabilities - such as help defense. On Calderon we agree here but if I may add that he gets injured often, he may start to regress and his contract is not that great. As primary ball stopper on defense he is also very weak but you are rigth that a lot of teams can and should use him. I like Calderon a lot and if we can package him with bargnani for any of the trades you proposed I would scream Raptors win x 3 times Chuck Swirsky style.

Thank you. I agree with you

**planetmars** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 09:17 AM

Can we trade Bryan instead?

**golden** · Wed Nov 21st, 2012, 11:16 AM

planetmars wrote:

Can we trade Bryan instead?

Haha. Good one. Package Jose with Andrea, Amir, Demar or Linas to get draft picks and cap flexibility (expiring contracts, TPE, etc..). We really don't want to get any "good" players back *sarcasm*. Let's get the tank rolling early and make sure we're in the protected draft pick zone for at least the next few years. Oh, and bring Jay Triano back.

Yes, it's time to "Decelerate the Rebuilding Process". (tm)

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