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Thread: Culture of Losing

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I said the post

  2. #42
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    No the talents there. But the refs are too busy choking on their whistles when the raptors have possession of the ball, Bargnani can't rebound or play defense, and casey is continuing to make weird substitutions
    No the talent is not there. Talented enough to be NBA'ers? Yep. Talented enough to be a winning basketball team with the possibility of becoming an elite squad? No 'effing way.

    The makeup of this team is flawed. We have no depth. Our trades and FA pickups have been dreadful. Draft picks have not worked out. DD is a plus offensive and minus defensive player. AB is a volume scorer and historically poor help defender. ED is a scrub. JV looks to have the ceiling of a solid to above-average NBA center. "yawn". Lowry is crazy talented and a hero-baller who hero'd his way out of his last gig. And that's basically the team.

    Detroit, Charlotte, Minnesota, Dallas, Utah. We're losing to bottom-feeding teams because we are, in fact, a bottom-feeding team. The argument of being 'young' is now old. We are humbled by Nick Young, for Christ sake. We simply do not have enough talent and the end of the tunnel is very very far away.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Copywryter wrote: View Post
    No the talent is not there. Talented enough to be NBA'ers? Yep. Talented enough to be a winning basketball team with the possibility of becoming an elite squad? No 'effing way.

    The makeup of this team is flawed. We have no depth. Our trades and FA pickups have been dreadful. Draft picks have not worked out. DD is a plus offensive and minus defensive player. AB is a volume scorer and historically poor help defender. ED is a scrub. JV looks to have the ceiling of a solid to above-average NBA center. "yawn". Lowry is crazy talented and a hero-baller who hero'd his way out of his last gig. And that's basically the team.

    Detroit, Charlotte, Minnesota, Dallas, Utah. We're losing to bottom-feeding teams because we are, in fact, a bottom-feeding team. The argument of being 'young' is now old. We are humbled by Nick Young, for Christ sake. We simply do not have enough talent and the end of the tunnel is very very far away.
    I disagree on JV.

    Not quite ready to go there on Lowry.

    Agree with the rest especially the bold. That realization came through loud and clear when I watched the game this morning. It was a major blow to everything I held true and dear.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote Copywryter wrote: View Post
    No the talent is not there. Talented enough to be NBA'ers? Yep. Talented enough to be a winning basketball team with the possibility of becoming an elite squad? No 'effing way.

    The makeup of this team is flawed. We have no depth. Our trades and FA pickups have been dreadful. Draft picks have not worked out. DD is a plus offensive and minus defensive player. AB is a volume scorer and historically poor help defender. ED is a scrub. JV looks to have the ceiling of a solid to above-average NBA center. "yawn". Lowry is crazy talented and a hero-baller who hero'd his way out of his last gig. And that's basically the team.

    Detroit, Charlotte, Minnesota, Dallas, Utah. We're losing to bottom-feeding teams because we are, in fact, a bottom-feeding team. The argument of being 'young' is now old. We are humbled by Nick Young, for Christ sake. We simply do not have enough talent and the end of the tunnel is very very far away.
    Im questioning your ability to understand basketball plays and players.

    Ed a scrub? No one on this forum has even brought up that idea. Ed is showing much more potential as he is waking up in his 3rd year. He was our top rebounder last season in less than 25 minutes.

    JV, compared to every center in the league, is already top-10. Listen, JV has more potential than Hibbert ever has/did. Hibbert made the all-star team last season, and I see JV making it in the future. At 20, JV has star potential.

    Demar has improved his defensive intensity so much this season, and has become a more efficient and diverse scorer. At 23, look for him to only get better.

    Lowry plays hero ball yes, but he is GOOD AT IT. Everyone complaing about not having 'that' guy who can take the game over on his own. Lowry is 'that' guy, though just like a good shooter only hits his buckets half the time, he will sometimes come out on the raw end of things. I dont mind him risking step up threes, cause he has shown he can make them with impunity. His defense is superb, though just like all steal leaders, sometimes he gets burned on the risk.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Also if you want to see a humbling by Nick Young:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FMAN...eature=related

    I miss Reggie Evans.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  6. #46
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Im questioning your ability to understand basketball plays and players.

    Ed a scrub? No one on this forum has even brought up that idea. Ed is showing much more potential as he is waking up in his 3rd year. He was our top rebounder last season in less than 25 minutes.

    JV, compared to every center in the league, is already top-10. Listen, JV has more potential than Hibbert ever has/did. Hibbert made the all-star team last season, and I see JV making it in the future. At 20, JV has star potential.

    Demar has improved his defensive intensity so much this season, and has become a more efficient and diverse scorer. At 23, look for him to only get better.

    Lowry plays hero ball yes, but he is GOOD AT IT. Everyone complaing about not having 'that' guy who can take the game over on his own. Lowry is 'that' guy, though just like a good shooter only hits his buckets half the time, he will sometimes come out on the raw end of things. I dont mind him risking step up threes, cause he has shown he can make them with impunity. His defense is superb, though just like all steal leaders, sometimes he gets burned on the risk.
    First, your avatar is JV, which gives me a good idea of your bias. But I'll be your huckleberry for a bit.

    Demar has improved, yes. No question. Not defensively so much, though his rebounding numbers are up. I'm not sure how you qualify 'intensity' on defence. Does that mean he looks like he's trying harder? I like Demar, he works hard. He is, however, a shooting guard who doesn't stretch the floor and that is a big knock. Nonetheless there's an argument to be made that he'll turn into a solid pro.

    Lowry is a fantastic basketball player in terms of skill and hustle. He played himself out of a starting job in Houston for the same reasons we're seeing here. (yes, he was hurt, which contributed). Sure, sometimes a coach and a player don't see eye-to-eye, but often where there is smoke there's fire. Perhaps that's why he wasn't snapped up in a trade sooner? Perhaps that why BC didn't prioritize him over Nash? What I can say about Lowry is that he should be a wake-up call to Raptors fans to show them what top-15 talent looks like at a position.

    Ed isn't getting minutes because he isn't playing hard, or well. He's not good offensively (and never will be) and is inconsistent defensively. He gets absolutely manhandled in the post. I'm not sure what 'waking up' means, but I do know what 9th man means, and that's what he is.

    JV. It's early. Perhaps too early to judge. He has a high motor for sure. Great nose for the ball. Tough. He's going to get junk buckets galore. Offensively he's very very raw. Too raw to say he's going to be an option. Defensively he's a foul machine and has not been able to handle bigs in the post. Common enough for rookies. It's his footspeed and athleticism that worries me. I don't know if he's fast or athletic enough to be an NBA 'star'. As for an all-star, a look at the history books will show you a LOT of average players that made one all-star game.

    Finally, don't question my ability to 'understand' players and then supply subjective and altogether empty language like 'intensity', 'superb', and 'potential'. It just reads like so much honking.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Listen, I know Ed is getting lower minutes. But I promise you every single time he's out there he has shown so much progress in his game. Im obviously comparing him to last year, but he is much more decisive, aware and impactful. He is not getting minutes though, and its a shame. Wait till bargs gets traded for Ed to start going off.

    JV is really smooth for a rookie 7 foot centre. JV is going to be an offensive option for sure.
    fouls? Compare him to amirs foul troubles early on! JV will stop getting tacky rookie fouls and will be set in that department soon.
    He is also probably the more mobile big men in the league! I dont know what youre talking about...

    When youre calling Ed a scrub, and JV 'above-average' i do question what you are looking at when they are out on the floor.
    and yes, intensity, superb, and potential are REAL basketball terms.

    Also on the knock on the avatar; Ive never had one until TODAY, so its funny that you commented on it.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Copywryter wrote: View Post
    First, your avatar is JV, which gives me a good idea of your bias. But I'll be your huckleberry for a bit.

    Demar has improved, yes. No question. Not defensively so much, though his rebounding numbers are up. I'm not sure how you qualify 'intensity' on defence. Does that mean he looks like he's trying harder? I like Demar, he works hard. He is, however, a shooting guard who doesn't stretch the floor and that is a big knock. Nonetheless there's an argument to be made that he'll turn into a solid pro.

    Lowry is a fantastic basketball player in terms of skill and hustle. He played himself out of a starting job in Houston for the same reasons we're seeing here. (yes, he was hurt, which contributed). Sure, sometimes a coach and a player don't see eye-to-eye, but often where there is smoke there's fire. Perhaps that's why he wasn't snapped up in a trade sooner? Perhaps that why BC didn't prioritize him over Nash? What I can say about Lowry is that he should be a wake-up call to Raptors fans to show them what top-15 talent looks like at a position.

    Ed isn't getting minutes because he isn't playing hard, or well. He's not good offensively (and never will be) and is inconsistent defensively. He gets absolutely manhandled in the post. I'm not sure what 'waking up' means, but I do know what 9th man means, and that's what he is.

    JV. It's early. Perhaps too early to judge. He has a high motor for sure. Great nose for the ball. Tough. He's going to get junk buckets galore. Offensively he's very very raw. Too raw to say he's going to be an option. Defensively he's a foul machine and has not been able to handle bigs in the post. Common enough for rookies. It's his footspeed and athleticism that worries me. I don't know if he's fast or athletic enough to be an NBA 'star'. As for an all-star, a look at the history books will show you a LOT of average players that made one all-star game.

    Finally, don't question my ability to 'understand' players and then supply subjective and altogether empty language like 'intensity', 'superb', and 'potential'. It just reads like so much honking.
    JV isn't that raw on offense at all. He's probably more further along than most C's that have been in the league for a handful of years. I also question your ability to understand players, do you even watch the games?

  9. #49
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    I'm not knocking your avatar, I'm questioning your bias. You like the guy so much you've made him your avatar. You're a big fan obviously, so how can you have perspective?

    JV is not 'smooth'. Right now he doesn't have a jump shot and his post moves are immature. If you want to compare him to Amir you're comparing him to a bench player...and that does not support your argument. I'm watching the Spurs game and Splitter just outran him down the floor. He looks very good for a rookie, no doubt, and he almost certainly has double-double potential. But there's a huge, huge gap between game-changing players "stars" and what I've seen from his skill set. Clearly you see something different, but I think you have purple-coloured glasses on. Another thread in this forum has his ceiling at Marcin Gortat, that's reasonable, I think, giving his lack of athleticism.

    Ed is getting lower minutes because the coach isn't happy with his effort. That is not progress. That is why he's seeing limited action after three years of being a first-round pick - because his coach is not seeing things he likes. When he does, like in the Spurs game right now, he will. Does this register with you at all? What you are saying is not borne out by court time. Please try to include some kind of statistical argument.

  10. #50
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    Quote Copywryter wrote: View Post
    I'm not knocking your avatar, I'm questioning your bias. You like the guy so much you've made him your avatar. You're a big fan obviously, so how can you have perspective?

    JV is not 'smooth'. Right now he doesn't have a jump shot and his post moves are immature. If you want to compare him to Amir you're comparing him to a bench player...and that does not support your argument. I'm watching the Spurs game and Splitter just outran him down the floor. He looks very good for a rookie, no doubt, and he almost certainly has double-double potential. But there's a huge, huge gap between game-changing players "stars" and what I've seen from his skill set. Clearly you see something different, but I think you have purple-coloured glasses on. Another thread in this forum has his ceiling at Marcin Gortat, that's reasonable, I think, giving his lack of athleticism.

    Ed is getting lower minutes because the coach isn't happy with his effort. That is not progress. That is why he's seeing limited action after three years of being a first-round pick - because his coach is not seeing things he likes. When he does, like in the Spurs game right now, he will. Does this register with you at all? What you are saying is not borne out by court time. Please try to include some kind of statistical argument.
    You're posting on a Raptors forum right? You must be a big fan, so I'm questioning your bias. I don't think you can have perspective in anything Raptors-related.

    Please don't use words like 'immature', this is a stat-only-argument-zone.

    Does some of this register with you at all? You see what you are doing here?

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote Copywryter wrote: View Post
    I'm not knocking your avatar, I'm questioning your bias. You like the guy so much you've made him your avatar. You're a big fan obviously, so how can you have perspective?

    JV is not 'smooth'. Right now he doesn't have a jump shot and his post moves are immature. If you want to compare him to Amir you're comparing him to a bench player...and that does not support your argument. I'm watching the Spurs game and Splitter just outran him down the floor. He looks very good for a rookie, no doubt, and he almost certainly has double-double potential. But there's a huge, huge gap between game-changing players "stars" and what I've seen from his skill set. Clearly you see something different, but I think you have purple-coloured glasses on. Another thread in this forum has his ceiling at Marcin Gortat, that's reasonable, I think, giving his lack of athleticism.

    Ed is getting lower minutes because the coach isn't happy with his effort. That is not progress. That is why he's seeing limited action after three years of being a first-round pick - because his coach is not seeing things he likes. When he does, like in the Spurs game right now, he will. Does this register with you at all? What you are saying is not borne out by court time. Please try to include some kind of statistical argument.

    I bet you feel silly now after JV had a CLUTCH night against the BIG SMOOTH himself.
    ED Just went off the moment he was given the minutes to ride out his amazing play! Last game he was benched after 10 great minutes, Spurs he was given time in the fourth. Check the stat lines for yourself, everything I said turned out to be true today. You seem dumb and should stop arguing.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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